Illinois 98, Penn State 81 Postgame

#126      

IllinoisssssssVarsity

I
IllinoisssssssVarsity
Piotyr said:
Be careful not to look at defense as raw # of points scored, because tempo plays into that a lot. A better metric to look at is points per possession, or the average # of points a team scores each time they have the ball. So far in a limited Big Ten sample size, teams are averaging 1.03 points per possession. Tonight, Illinois' defense allowed 1.13 points per possession, which was...not ideal but not among the bottom 5 worst defensive performance of the Big Ten season so far (that would be PSU's defensive performance tonight).

Through 3 conference games, Illinois is scoring 1.23 PPP )best in the league) and allowing 1.05 PPP (slightly below average). They were a lot better at not fouling overall tonight, but were still allowing too many easy looks on pick and rolls, which still need to be cleaned up.

Actually, now that Indiana played, each team in the B1G has played at least one game, so teams can be evaluated based on their efficiency in conference so far. So, based on net efficiency, here are the B1G standings after each team has played at least once:

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I am of the opinion that allowing 1.13 ppp to penn state is not okay. They also shot 54% overall. Did they hit some tough shots? Yes. But did we give up a bunch of great shots that could get them confident and in rhythm? Yes.

Good things: we fixed our foul issues so they only shot 7 FTs. Otherwise ppp allowed could have been higher. They only shot 30% from 3. I’m not sure of their normal 3 pt percentage for perspective.

Final thought. Yes pace is a thing in giving up more points. However, we had great pace and held Minnesota to 65. Same for duke and gave up 68. I think my frustration is more that we’ve shown we’re capable of great things defensively. We’re just inconsistent and thats the type of thing that gets you upset by the 8 seed in the second round.
 
#128      

O&B4Ever

O
O&B4Ever
IllinoisssssssVarsity said:
I am of the opinion that allowing 1.13 ppp to penn state is not okay. They also shot 54% overall. Did they hit some tough shots? Yes. But did we give up a bunch of great shots that could get them confident and in rhythm? Yes.

Good things: we fixed our foul issues so they only shot 7 FTs. Otherwise ppp allowed could have been higher. They only shot 30% from 3. I’m not sure of their normal 3 pt percentage for perspective.

Final thought. Yes pace is a thing in giving up more points. However, we had great pace and held Minnesota to 65. Same for duke and gave up 68. I think my frustration is more that we’ve shown we’re capable of great things defensively. We’re just inconsistent and thats the type of thing that gets you upset by the 8 seed in the second round.
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That's the great thing about college BB. Some nights, it's a shootout, other games are more of a defensive battle. I'm not gonna worry about the NCAA tourney yet, just gonna enjoy watching great college basketball, as our Illini make their way thru this gauntlet of tough Big 10 games each and every week. Go Illini!
 
#129      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
IllinoisssssssVarsity said:
I am of the opinion that allowing 1.13 ppp to penn state is not okay. They also shot 54% overall. Did they hit some tough shots? Yes. But did we give up a bunch of great shots that could get them confident and in rhythm? Yes.

Good things: we fixed our foul issues so they only shot 7 FTs. Otherwise ppp allowed could have been higher. They only shot 30% from 3. I’m not sure of their normal 3 pt percentage for perspective.

Final thought. Yes pace is a thing in giving up more points. However, we had great pace and held Minnesota to 65. Same for duke and gave up 68. I think my frustration is more that we’ve shown we’re capable of great things defensively. We’re just inconsistent and thats the type of thing that gets you upset by the 8 seed in the second round.
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If the Illini are playing an 8 seed in second round, I think it is likely they’ve conquered the inconsistency problem. Unless you think they’ll be a 16 seed.
 
#133      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
Cairo said:
No, it was not. Curbello kind of fell over the ball. You don't go for steals or fouls down 15 with under a minute. It's poor sportsmanship and totally Bush league.
Ayo's reaction was needed, and I'm glad a message was sent.
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I agree. Don’t think it was a flop at all. Curbelo’s momentum was taking him in that direction, but not sure he would have fallen without the push. I didn’t have a problem with the steal attempt at that time of the game. Don’t think at that point Illini could just dribble it out (though it was close either way), so keep playing. I honestly thought the way Trent dribbled out the clock after that was closer to “bush league” than the steal attempt.
 
#134      

Calvin

C
Calvin
Watched Underwood's postgame. Seemed really happy with the effort and execution overall. Commented on a lot of the things guys did right. Also I think he was pleased with a road W where the guys abused the opponent in the paint. That's a pretty reliable game plan to have on your side.

Walked the line well on the ending --mentioned first, "that's not what we're about", but was clearly not upset with Ayo's intention to stand up for a teammate being bullied.

I'm thrilled with the result. Lotta good in this one. Thought even the officiating went our way on balance. If I'm being critical, there's still a lot of improvements that can be made, and the defense looks like it's missing something. Although Underwood was asked directly about the defense, and he didn't seem concerned given the way they want to play with pace. Seems to believe there is a trade-off with a high pace that you need to accept.

Gotta give a shout-out to Grandison. Leading rebounder despite coming off the bench, and got him some easy buckets. I think that's partially because of how we matched up, so I'm not projecting a big leap, but was great to see.
 
#136      

Cairo

Cairo
Cairo
EyeoftheIllini said:
I agree. Don’t think it was a flop at all. Curbelo’s momentum was taking him in that direction, but not sure he would have fallen without the push. I didn’t have a problem with the steal attempt at that time of the game. Don’t think at that point Illini could just dribble it out (though it was close either way), so keep playing. I honestly thought the way Trent dribbled out the clock after that was closer to “bush league” than the steal attempt.
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There wasn't a player that close to Trent. And if a senior on this team wants to beat his chest after a war, I'm good with it. I want more of it.
The toughness of this team has been questioned repeatedly. They answered that question and sent a message.
 
#137      

pruman91

pruman91
Paducah, Ky
pruman91
Cairo said:
There wasn't a player that close to Trent. And if a senior on this team wants to beat his chest after a war, I'm good with it. I want more of it.
The toughness of this team has been questioned repeatedly. They answered that question and sent a message.
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#138      

DRS

D
DRS
I am gonna have to disagree with anybody taking issue to Ayo standing up for what he thought was a disrespect to one of his freshman stars. I want Ayo to do that in that situation. Pretty soft double tech by the way, maybe since he continued to escalate the situation even after the initial dust up. Got to stand up and make sure this game is played the right way. Trying to steal the ball down 16 under 30 on the clock is complete bush league, and from Ayo's viewpoint it looked like there was a little extra on the play. For what it is worth there wasn't much, but still completely unnecessary by Wheeler. Penn St. has a deserved reputation of being a tough nosed team and this is one of many slights and shots they have taken at us over the years. I love how Penn St is becoming a bit of grudge match with us. Ayo was outstanding last night in every aspect(except a sloppy turnover or two).
 
#139      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
Cairo said:
There wasn't a player that close to Trent. And if a senior on this team wants to beat his chest after a war, I'm good with it. I want more of it.
The toughness of this team has been questioned repeatedly. They answered that question and sent a message.
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I had no problem with Trent dribbling it out that way either. Just saying that in my book potentially showing up team or player is more bush league than playing defense when you’re behind. Curbelo could not have dribbled out clock, so why not play D — especially against the guy who just stole it from you. They’re trying to establish a culture there too — and have to play Illini again.

People are fond of saying “well then stop them if you don’t like it” when a football team scores late in a blowout win and running up the score is brought up. Don’t see this as much different and Wheeler played D. Now if he had mauled Curbelo that would be different, but he just gave him a push. I applaud Ayo for coming to Curbelo’s defense. But nothing bush league about Wheeler’s play in my book.
 
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#140      

Bucktown

B
Bucktown
DRS said:
I am gonna have to disagree with anybody taking issue to Ayo standing up for what he thought was a disrespect to one of his freshman stars. I want Ayo to do that in that situation. Pretty soft double tech by the way, maybe since he continued to escalate the situation even after the initial dust up. Got to stand up and make sure this game is played the right way. Trying to steal the ball down 16 under 30 on the clock is complete bush league, and from Ayo's viewpoint it looked like there was a little extra on the play. For what it is worth there wasn't much, but still completely unnecessary by Wheeler. Penn St. has a deserved reputation of being a tough nosed team and this is one of many slights and shots they have taken at us over the years. I love how Penn St is becoming a bit of grudge match with us. Ayo was outstanding last night in every aspect(except a sloppy turnover or two).
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I disagree and think the idea that someone needs to start an altercation which could lead to something physical (like in the KU/K-State game) just because of a slight or perceived offense is not acceptable. The Penn State player was being competitive within the context of the game. Maybe it was 'bush league', but so what? Rise above. Ayo overreacted.

It is not hard to make the bridge from the basketball court to the real world where similar overreactions might have far graver consequences than a couple technical fouls.
 
#141      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
GallopingGhost said:
I know everyone is praising Curbelo, and rightfully so: he’s got a good niche in this team already. But I still think Adam Miller is gonna be our star in year 2-3. He has a very similar set to Ayo and can’t do much with it cause, well, Ayo. He can take good spot up threes and create some, but next year put the ball in his hands with one year games, practice, conditioning and strength training and he is gonna be scary.
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I agree if Miller follows Ayo's growth trajectory he will lead the league in scoring by year three. My thoughts on Curbelo from before the season, Curbelo's skill set will lead him to the longest NBA career of all our prospects. 15+ years like Stockton, Kidd, J.J. Barea, and Steve Nash. He could land a lottery pick after 4 years.
He sees things no one on the court sees.
 
#142      

Ga65

G
Ga65
Think Ayo overreacted but was protecting his undersized freshman. Not a huge deal either way and seemed like a legitimate technical. Do not understand why they always have to call a technical on both players which then seemed to force double on Ayo. Kind of the same thing when they called Trent on a technical in the Iowa game when he really didn’t do anything.
 
#143      

DReq

DReq
Always Illini
Central Illinois
DReq
Listening to what Coach is pushing them to do - more scrambling for loose balls and intensity - I got thinking about the Matto Award and wondered if it is still being awarded. If it is not a thing any more I would suggest that a new award for that fighting spirit and selfless energy going to the floor for the loose balls could be named for Feliz to inspire today's players who know him and how he plays. I would not do anything to stop the Matto Award in Matt Heldman's honor but it may need to be updated for the current group of your players whoo were not born when Matt was playing (The award was created in 1998). Nice to see Grandison finding his inner Matt to get after the loose balls and inspire the others to do so. That edge makes a big difference in the B1G.

It was truly great to see the guys pull out of a deep hole to take the game over. Next time lets just take over the game from the opening whistle. It would be a lot easier on me.
 
#144      

Piotyr

P
Piotyr
Ga65 said:
What was our OPPP last year?
It seemed like PSU made a lot of tough shots but then it also seemed like that with Rutgers. Think part of it is the difference in Belo’s defense vs Dre’s defense.
Only stat that is greatly reduced is Miller/Belo rebounding vs Dre/Griffin rebounding (5.2/9.5).
Offensive stats have been replaced nicely by newcomers.
Would like to see some variation in defensive schemes as teams seem well prepared for us. We were not middle of the pack defensively last year and not going to win conference with those nos.
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They had a conference OPPP of 0.99 last year, better than the league average of 1.01, and better than the 1.05 through 3 games so far this year. Their overall adjusted defensive efficiency last year was 93.7 points per 100 possessions, good for 35th overall in the country (adjusted means for opponent, as KenPom does, so the number is effectively how they would defend an average D1 team). This year, so far, through 9 games, their adjusted defensive efficiency is 92.9, though good for only 47th in the country to this point. Their worst defensive efforts to this point were against Baylor, Rutgers and PSU, so the defensive issues have been very recent for the most part. However, Minnesota was their best defensive game so far this year against a real opponent (sorry, Chicago State), and that was just a week ago.

Lost in the defensive malaise, though, is just how good the offense has been, 1.23 in conference play so far, and 1.16 adjusted overall, good for 5th in the country behind Iowa, Baylor, Gonzaga and Villanova.
 
#145      

Ubermensch

Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Ubermensch
Ga65 said:
Think Ayo overreacted but was protecting his undersized freshman. Not a huge deal either way and seemed like a legitimate technical. Do not understand why they always have to call a technical on both players which then seemed to force double on Ayo. Kind of the same thing when they called Trent on a technical in the Iowa game when he really didn’t do anything.
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I agree. He overreacted. But I'm of the mind that if it helps to bring the guys together and it gives the team a little more grit, then so be it. I think these are all really good kids. I don't think they like to play mean in the way that Griffin could. But I think they could use a little more edge.
 
#146      

Ga65

G
Ga65
Piotyr said:
They had a conference OPPP of 0.99 last year, better than the league average of 1.01, and better than the 1.05 through 3 games so far this year. Their overall adjusted defensive efficiency last year was 93.7 points per 100 possessions, good for 35th overall in the country (adjusted means for opponent, as KenPom does, so the number is effectively how they would defend an average D1 team). This year, so far, through 9 games, their adjusted defensive efficiency is 92.9, though good for only 47th in the country to this point. Their worst defensive efforts to this point were against Baylor, Rutgers and PSU, so the defensive issues have been very recent for the most part. However, Minnesota was their best defensive game so far this year against a real opponent (sorry, Chicago State), and that was just a week ago.

Lost in the defensive malaise, though, is just how good the offense has been, 1.23 in conference play so far, and 1.16 adjusted overall, good for 5th in the country behind Iowa, Baylor, Gonzaga and Villanova.
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BU saying it had to do with pace of play. Stats don’t seem to back that up. Really wondering if has more to do with opposing coaches having schemes to deal with it. Really believe coaching in BIG will figure out any defensive system if there aren’t any variations. Only real consistent loss on defense was Dre. If Grandison can emerge defensively it will cover our biggest weakness. Worry about the Liddells, Potters, other powerful fours like Harper in BIG.
 
#147      

IlliniFandom

IlliniFandom
IlliniFandom
I was glad to see grandson find a little role on the team as well. Wolf pup is still unsure of his role as evidenced by his shot at Rutgers and his time on the bench. I just feel like he yearns for more of the spotlight, but he just isn't ready yet and can't accept it. He forces things vs letting them come naturally. He has to learn that he is in there to defend, spread the floor, and to rebound...I've only see him do the one of the three. BU really should pull him but that would put his time at UI in jeopardy I think. He has elite quickness for his size and a gifted stroke. He will be great once he figures out how to play at this level. Which time and experience will teach him. Just hope he will figure it out soon because his mistakes are killing us.
 
#148      

Ubermensch

Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Ubermensch
CentralILifer said:
It was this sort of play that made such a difference in this game over games that they lost. Grandison did it more than once. This clip (where it starts) actually has Grandison being active on 2 plays.

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I'm not sure which plays you have in mind, but I was really pleased with Grandison. He was doing all those little things guys like Griffin, Feliz, and Kipper were doing last year. I like how he was boxing out at 1:06 well before the ball ever went up. Pass at 4:12. Rebound at 12:27. Tip at 12:35. Rebound at 13:04. Rebound at 13:43. If you just focus on him this entire video you see how engaged he was. His movement without the ball was terrific, even though he rarely got the ball he was constantly moving and putting himself in position to be ready. And he was so active on defense, also continuously moving trying to put himself in the best position at all times. Always aware of the ball and his man and always boxing out. He was a bit frantic at times, but his effort and awareness all over the court was off the charts.
 
#149      

IllinoisssssssVarsity

I
IllinoisssssssVarsity
1) nothing wrong with playing till the buzzer, both ways. If the dude is trying dog Belo on defense than belo should just blow by and score. You only pull back when the losing team clearly concedes. Usually pretty obvious “no foul!” call from the coach and they won’t defend you close enough for the pressure to matter. We either want kids to play like the score is 0-0 all the time effort-wise or we don’t.

2) nothing wrong with jumping to your teammates side, appropriately. Agree with most a single tech vs ayo should have sufficed.
 
#150      

LostinNebraska

L
LostinNebraska
Ga65 said:
Think Ayo overreacted but was protecting his undersized freshman. Not a huge deal either way and seemed like a legitimate technical. Do not understand why they always have to call a technical on both players which then seemed to force double on Ayo. Kind of the same thing when they called Trent on a technical in the Iowa game when he really didn’t do anything.
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Freeman is lucky King Kofi isn't the teams alpha dog. A chest bump from him instead of Ayo would've broken his sternum.