Illinois Football Uniforms

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#601      
mattcoldagelli
StarterG said:
Living here in Minnesota, I can tell you from anecdotal evidence that literally 99% of the state HATES the new flag. People who never flew the flag before are now flying the old version. Municipalities are either still flying the old flag or have taken to flying their own flag in place of the state flag. (Of course this excludes the sh+* holes of Minneapolis and St Paul).
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"literally 99% of the state" but excluding the most populated area, cool story man.
 
#603      
the juiceman cometh
StarterG said:
Living here in Minnesota, I can tell you from anecdotal evidence that literally 99% of the state HATES the new flag. People who never flew the flag before are now flying the old version. Municipalities are either still flying the old flag or have taken to flying their own flag in place of the state flag. (Of course this excludes the sh+* holes of Minneapolis and St Paul).
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Given your use of "anecdotal" and "literally" this must mean you've spoken to at least 99% of the population of the state about this. Like 5.68 million people you've discussed this topic with? That's really something. I guess we all have our hobbies...

The fact that you immediately describe the state's biggest metropolitan areas as s-holes tells me everything I need to know tbh. I don't care what your anecdotally evidenced literal 99% thinks. The old flag was awful. Here it is for those who are mildly interested but don't want to look it up:

minnesota_large.jpg
 
#604      
Fighter of the Nightman
StarterG said:
Living here in Minnesota, I can tell you from anecdotal evidence that literally 99% of the state HATES the new flag. People who never flew the flag before are now flying the old version. Municipalities are either still flying the old flag or have taken to flying their own flag in place of the state flag. (Of course this excludes the sh+* holes of Minneapolis and St Paul).
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Yeah, I get that there is always a place for simplicity/being easily replicable in some things ... but a state flag?! People so rarely use these, and I think they are way cooler when they have this nostalgic feel. There are seriously people who'd rather have a couple shapes that I could make in MS Paint over an intricately drawn eagle on the state flag?! That blows my mind. However, I guess it follows unfortunate modern trends in things like architecture ... some literal sewers built in the 1800s have cooler architecture than some of the new high rises in Chicago, lol.
 
#605      
mattcoldagelli
And here is where we can move beyond the simple subjectivity involved in uniforms and into an area where there are actual pieces of guidance to ensure design furthers - as opposed to hampers - the function of a flag. From the North American Vexillological Association:
  1. Keep It Simple. The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.
  2. Use Meaningful Symbolism. The flag's images, colors, or patterns should relate to what it symbolizes
  3. Use 2 or 3 Basic Colors. Limit the number of colors on the flag to three which contrast well and come from the standard color set
  4. No Lettering or Seals. Never use writing on any kind or an organization's seal
  5. Be Distinctive or Be Related. Avoid duplicating other flags, but use similarities to show connections
Here are the old and new flags, together, for reference:
images
 
#606      
Fighter of the Nightman
the juiceman cometh said:
Given your use of "anecdotal" and "literally" this must mean you've spoken to at least 99% of the population of the state about this. Like 5.68 million people you've discussed this topic with? That's really something. I guess we all have our hobbies...

The fact that you immediately describe the state's biggest metropolitan areas as s-holes tells me everything I need to know tbh. I don't care what your anecdotally evidenced literal 99% thinks. The old flag was awful. Here it is for those who are mildly interested but don't want to look it up:

View attachment 37305
Click to expand...
That flag is pretty bad, I must admit. However, I don't see this is particularly good, while acknowledging that I am clearly not an expert and didn't even know one could be to the extent referenced above! :ROFLMAO:

1200px-Flag_of_Minnesota.svg.png


Illinois' state flag is pretty cool and classy, IMO. If anything, it could just use some additional color or trim (the all white background takes away from the imagery a bit) ... think of Iowa's compared to ours.

1200px-Flag_of_Illinois.svg.png


state-flag-necessity-question-Iowa-World-War-1921.jpg


At risk of getting too off-topic, this applies to uniforms for sports teams, too. There is a difference between being resistant to any and all change "just because" and recognizing that certain things should be somewhat exempt from trends and changes in style. The fact that Illinois' flag has a style that seems like it is from over a century ago isn't a problem that needs fixing ... it's cool and makes it have more character than a new one.

JMO, of course, but just as Illinois (est. 1818) would reasonably have a more "classic" or "historic" looking state flag than a state like Arizona (est. 1912 and with so much more of its growth/history coming after that), I think a football program like Illinois (est. 1890, in current conference since 1896) should have a more classic/timeless look to its logos, fonts and uniforms than a program like Texas Tech (est. 1925, in current conference since 1996). Others have suggested this, so I won't take credit ... but chasing the new trend just seems especially inauthentic and antithetical to our program's identity (or at least what it should be) than it does for others.
 
#607      
the juiceman cometh
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Yeah, I get that there is always a place for simplicity/being easily replicable in some things ... but a state flag?! People so rarely use these, and I think they are way cooler when they have this nostalgic feel. There are seriously people who'd rather have a couple shapes that I could make in MS Paint over an intricately drawn eagle on the state flag?! That blows my mind. However, I guess it follows unfortunate modern trends in things like architecture ... some literal sewers built in the 1800s have cooler architecture than some of the new high rises in Chicago, lol.
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It's weird to me that someone who is so fixated about good design in football and basketball uniforms, would also be ok with a mess of a state flag for pure nostalgia reasons. You're also just wrong about how often they get utilized when they are good.

When done right a state/municipal flag can be a point of pride. Look at the Chicago municipal flag and how Chicagoans love to utilize it every chance they get. The Texas state flag is another great example. Maryland. Colorado. Arizona. Good municipal and state flags do get used as a template for all manner of expressions of state and local pride. Bad ones don't. Maybe you see the Illinois flag rarely used because it is just plain bad.
 
#608      
Fighter of the Nightman
the juiceman cometh said:
It's weird to me that someone who is so fixated about good design in football and basketball uniforms, would also be ok with a mess of a state flag for pure nostalgia reasons. You're also just wrong about how often they get utilized when they are good.

When done right a state/municipal flag can be a point of pride. Look at the Chicago municipal flag and how Chicagoans love to utilize it every chance they get. The Texas state flag is another great example. Maryland. Colorado. Arizona. Good municipal and state flags do get used as a template for all manner of expressions of state and local pride. Bad ones don't. Maybe you see the Illinois flag rarely used because it is just plain bad.
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Fair enough retort, especially the correlation between a flag being good and its use. But to be clear, I am not "okay" with a "mess of a state flag" as if it is just not a big deal ... I guess I just personally have always liked our flag. This is partially because I spent many years living in Iowa and associate "classic state flags" with that eagle imagery. I get that there is a balance and some subjectivity here, but sometimes these debates seem like replacing the classic font above the Chicago Board of Trade building with Aptos Narrow font because of some aesthetic ratio making the latter "objectively better," even though it would just look soulless in reality.
 
#610      
21ChampaignSt
the juiceman cometh said:
When done right a state/municipal flag can be a point of pride. Look at the Chicago municipal flag and how Chicagoans love to utilize it every chance they get. The Texas state flag is another great example. Maryland. Colorado. Arizona. Good municipal and state flags do get used as a template for all manner of expressions of state and local pride. Bad ones don't. Maybe you see the Illinois flag rarely used because it is just plain bad.
Click to expand...
It seems you've stumbled on the ultimate test of good flag design - can it be adapted to a beer can?
 

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#611      
GrayGhost77
Basically all of the best state and city flags are pretty simple but extremely identifiable: Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Maryland, Alaska. The three (IMO) best city flags in the US are Chicago, Phoenix, and DC. All are very simple and are heavily used in their respective areas. (Indianapolis, New Orleans, and Baltimore have cool flags, too)
 
#614      
Ander1345
I think what would have made the new Minnesota flag 1000% better if it was aligned horizontally, so the north star would actually be above the horizon instead of randomly to the left.
 
#615      
Fighter of the Nightman
Slightly back on topic, but I was thinking the other day about all of the comments (that I agree with, BTW) that we should be utilizing "Fighting Illini" WAY more than we do because it is very unique. So, I wanted to try to divide the Power Five programs (plus Notre Dame and the Big East) into what I considered unique/cool nicknames and ones I see as pretty generic. These are obviously at least partially subjective ... for example, "Spartans" is shared by some other programs (e.g., San Jose State), but I still think it comes across as very unique for MSU. Additionally, "Terrapins" is incredibly unique on paper, but Maryland has moved very far away from anything to do with the turtle imagery. The super subjective part is my distinguishing between the top two tiers ... pretty much just my personal opinion and taking into account the imagery they use and how often people associate that name with the program rather than the school name (e.g., "Crimson Tide" is very unique, but they mostly stick with the Script A). I excluded the Illini to at least KIND of try to remain unbiased, haha.

VERY UNIQUE OR COOL
Colorado Buffaloes
Florida Gators
Florida State Seminoles
Indiana Hoosiers
Iowa Hawkeyes
Kansas Jayhawks
Michigan State Spartans
Nebraska Cornhuskers
North Carolina Tar Heels
Ohio State Buckeyes
Ole Miss Rebels
Oregon Ducks
Providence Friars
Purdue Boilermakers
South Carolina Gamecocks
Stanford Cardinal
TCU Horned Frogs
Texas Longhorns
Texas Tech Red Raiders
USC Trojans
Utah Utes
Virginia Cavaliers
Virginia Tech Hokies
West Virginia Mountaineers

FAILRY UNIQUE
Alabama Crimson Tide
Arizona State Sun Devils
Arkansas Razorbacks
Creighton Bluejays
Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets
Georgetown Hoyas
Iowa State Cyclones
Maryland Terrapins
Miami (FL) Hurricanes
Michigan Wolverines
Minnesota Golden Gophers
Oklahoma Sooners
Penn State Nittany Lions
SMU Mustangs
St. John's (NY) Red Storm
Tennessee Volunteers
Texas A&M Aggies
Vanderbilt Commodores
Wake Forest Demon Deacons
Wisconsin Badgers
Xavier Musketeers

FAIRLY GENERIC OR SHARED BY MULTIPLE NCAAF TEAMS
Arizona Wildcats
Auburn Tigers
Baylor Bears
Boston College Eagles
Butler Bulldogs
BYU Cougars
Cal Golden Bears
Cincinnati Bearcats
Clemson Tigers
DePaul Blue Demons
Duke Blue Devils
Georgia Bulldogs
Houston Cougars
Kansas State Wildcats
Kentucky Wildcats
Louisville Cardinals
LSU Tigers
Marquette Golden Eagles
Mississippi State Bulldogs
NC State Wolfpack
Northwestern Wildcats
Oklahoma State Cowboys
Pitt Panthers
Rutgers Scarlet Knights
Seton Hall Pirates
Syracuse Orange
UCF Knights
UCLA Bruins
UConn Huskies
Washington Huskies

Somewhat of a symptom of today's trends, of the 24 teams I classified in that top category (i.e., have a unique team name/logo to run with), only six have a primary logo that doesn't rely on a block letter.

ACTUAL LOGO WITHOUT LETTERS
Florida Gators
Florida State Seminoles
Iowa Hawkeyes
Kansas Jayhawks
Michigan State Spartans
Texas Longhorns

COMBINATION OF LOGO AND LETTERS
Colorado Buffaloes
South Carolina Gamecocks
Stanford Cardinal
Virginia Cavaliers

NOTHING MORE THAN LETTERS
Indiana Hoosiers
Nebraska Cornhuskers
North Carolina Tar Heels
Ohio State Buckeyes
Ole Miss Rebels
Oregon Ducks
Providence Friars
Purdue Boilermakers
TCU Horned Frogs
Texas Tech Red Raiders
Utah Utes
Virginia Tech Hokies
West Virginia Mountaineers
 
#617      
TentakilRex
mattcoldagelli said:
And here is where we can move beyond the simple subjectivity involved in uniforms and into an area where there are actual pieces of guidance to ensure design furthers - as opposed to hampers - the function of a flag. From the North American Vexillological Association:
  1. Keep It Simple. The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.
  2. Use Meaningful Symbolism. The flag's images, colors, or patterns should relate to what it symbolizes
  3. Use 2 or 3 Basic Colors. Limit the number of colors on the flag to three which contrast well and come from the standard color set
  4. No Lettering or Seals. Never use writing on any kind or an organization's seal
  5. Be Distinctive or Be Related. Avoid duplicating other flags, but use similarities to show connections
Here are the old and new flags, together, for reference:
images
Click to expand...
Get this r/Vexillology/CFP Grey crap out off of this board now.... this will only lead to bad things for this board in the future.
 
#618      
Mr. Tibbs
Ander1345 said:
I think what would have made the new Minnesota flag 1000% better if it was aligned horizontally, so the north star would actually be above the horizon instead of randomly to the left.
Click to expand...
that new flag looks like it should be for Kansas
 
#619      
TentakilRex
21ChampaignSt said:
It seems you've stumbled on the ultimate test of good flag design - can it be adapted to a beer can?
Click to expand...
BTW I fully embrace your theory.

Actually I put the image of the state flag on a white helmet in a quickie photoshop, it doesn't look awful....

1. Somehow I missed the part of the shield with the blue and stars while using the magic select feature on Paint
2. I will admit that this helmet is bit too busy. I really thing the Eagle holding the state motto would make a cool logo for a beer can, helmet, etc.

Illinois State Flag Helmet.png
 
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#621      
21ChampaignSt
TentakilRex said:
BTW I fully embrace your theory.

Actually I put the image of the state flag on a white helmet in a quickie photoshop, it doesn't look awful....

1. Somehow I missed the part of the shield with the blue and stars while using the magic select feature on Paint
2. I will admit that this helmet is bit too busy. I really thing the Eagle holding the state motto would make a cool logo for a beer can, helmet, etc.

View attachment 37319
Click to expand...
Ha somehow it looks better on a helmet than a nylon rectangle? Could work for a high school all star game or something.

This discussion forced me to look at other state flags and boy, as a nation, flag design is just not a strength of ours. Can you do Virginia's flag next?
 
#623      
1970 John
Fuze said:
I don't get why some people are so against the state outline on the field/court. I think it looked better before they redid the turf a couple years ago, but that's because they shrunk the Block I for whatever reason and has nothing to do with the outline itself. The only aspect that's up for debate IMO is how subtle the outline should be. The new basketball court is far more subtle than it used to be in contrast to the old court finish and what we've had for football since 2012. NIU recently updated their stadium turf and got rid of it. They had another subtle outline with it just being a darker shade of green rather than the line we have.
Click to expand...
NIU should only be allowed to have the outline of northern Illinois.
 
#624      
Shief
How did this thread devolve into a vexillology debate? I am receptive to the state of Illinois changing the flag but ...
 
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