Just a hypothetical conversation. I agree that's not perfectly logical. but it doesn't necessarily mean that's not the idea going down here...I'm just staying optimistic. There was a lot of smoke around this "silent verbal". Like you pointed out, it doesn't necessarily mean anything, as it's sounding like Tilmon's services are still up for grabs. But i don't think it would be that absurd if he really did privately give Groce the nod under the conditions that he'd let the process play out. I mean, if that really did happen, I don't think Groce would ever try and pressure him out of that.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (April-June 2016)
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Just a hypothetical conversation. I agree that's not perfectly logical. but it doesn't necessarily mean that's not the idea going down here...I'm just staying optimistic. There was a lot of smoke around this "silent verbal". Like you pointed out, it doesn't necessarily mean anything, as it's sounding like Tilmon's services are still up for grabs. But i don't think it would be that absurd if he really did privately give Groce the nod under the conditions that he'd let the process play out. I mean, if that really did happen, I don't think Groce would ever try and pressure him out of that.
Jabber Jabber
- Champaign, IL
I have finally grown out of following recruiting. Too much argument about semantics (silent verbals). Too much argument about whose info is more legit (ie. who has a bigger...). Too much argument as to timelines, intentions, who's overly positive or who's chicken little.
I'm out. Wake me up when someone commits, to Illinois or elsewhere.
I'm out. Wake me up when someone commits, to Illinois or elsewhere.
I'm curious just how precarious his job status really is and how we would know? Whitman is really the only one who really knows for sure.
Must not have been a BB banquet this year. That was always a good event to get some recruiting rumors.
How serious is this? The banquet is coming up on May 2nd
Whitman does not know for sure more the rest of us, recruits, coaches, and parents know as far as this recruiting class is concerned (2017). Whitman has made an announcement that Groce is coming back for 2016-17. Everyone knows that, this decision has been taken.
But as far as the 2017-18 season and beyond, which is the real effect on the 2017 recruiting class, nobody can really be sure, including Whitman, as future events (performance, results, player behavior, recruiting class, etc.) will influence that status. That will not change until next season plays out, which is after most of the 2017 recruiting class make their decisions.
blackdog
- Champaign
Yeah, it certainly sounds like a ridiculous idea with that verbage
I think it would be more like "As thing stand RIGHT NOW, I would choose Illinois but I need to fully weigh my option to make the right decision."
So it's really pretty simple. Whitman told Groce he has to make the tournament or he's fired. Groce relayed that info to Tilmon and Goodwin. So they tell Groce that they will wait until spring to commit. "If you make the tournament we will commit to U of I". Groce celebrates, knowing he will definitely make the tournament next season.
There, now we can all relax and get ready for some fun basketball.
Which is much different than a verbal. Recruits lean one way or another often at different points in their recruitment. They can favor one team consistently or not. That is very common. And most veteran coaches, including Groce, are not naive (contrary to often popular belief here), they know that and where things stand. But that again is much different than a verbal, which implies a commitment, silent or not.
The only time that recruits make "silent" commitments is often right before their announcement. So it gives them some time to have their official press conference. Brunson, for example, did give a "silent verbal" to Wright (his admission) on his visit and then scheduled his PC (his father also gave Temple a courtesy call). Xavier Simpson did give a "silent verbal" to Michigan, then announced. So did Shaun Livingston (to Duke) before his announcement.
As of a month ago, I'd stick with was I was told. We are in good shape but I expect Tilmon to take his visits (already had some home visits since then) and then at one point decide. I'd be surprised if Illinois does not receive one.
I personally doubt that's what Whitman told Groce, as the decision will depend on multiple factors and future events (performance, results, player behavior, recruiting class, etc.).
I also doubt that Tilmon and Goodwin wait until Spring to make their decision, although a verbal is non-binding. If they have doubts and Groce's future is a critical factor, they can make a commitment but elect not not sign an LOI. Although even an LOI means little in cases of coaching changes as most schools let recruits out of their LOI (as they should).
Combes, appreciate your posts - generally, some of the best on this board. I don't doubt you heard what you say you heard from a connected source.
Maybe Tilmon said exactly that, but there are all sorts of issues with second-hand information.
I was never recruited as an athlete, but see recruits break their commitments all the time in the job market. Recruits often tell people they're coming until a better offer comes along. When your NBA future is on the line it's pretty hard to turn down an offer from Roy, Cal, or Self. I know there are a lot of lawyers on this board - I wonder how many of them turned down Harvard to stay close to home and attend their state school. Zero?
Let us assume Groce is *really* on hot seat, under performs and is fired - again assume, in mid season. Do people really believe that JW would do so without ensuring a FAR better coach? Lovieisk?
That does not mean I expect kids to sign up with Groce without fear.
JW?
That does not mean I expect kids to sign up with Groce without fear.
JW?
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That's much different though as we are talking about blue blood schools actively recruiting top players. Students apply to schools with the hope, in the case of Harvard, of being accepted. If you are a top recruit in your class (McD AA type, currently top-15-20) you will likely get the offers from top schools. Tilmon getting recruited by KU, MSU, UNC, Texas and others is hardly a surprise to fans. I am pretty sure it has not been a surprise to Tilmon either.
I would bet my car that he's gone without an NCAA bid next year.
I think he needs to make the tourney OR put together a top 15ish recruiting class - not both. I just don't see him getting fired if he finally proves he can put together a complete roster.
The way things look right now I can't see a tourney bid next year - there's maybe a 10-20% chance of that (assuming Nunn and Thorne are gone). If Thorne gets a 6th year our chances increase a bit. Nunn's presence doesn't affect my thoughts on the tourney.
Goodwin picked up TCU and Oklahoma State offers in the last hour
Didn't recruiting already save his job? That's pretty much what Whitman said - it's all about the opportunity with the 2017 class. I think Whitman actually believes what he said.
I think Whitman is bright enough to realize that the right replacement at coach will be able to recruit. As of right now, Groce's results are average at best. He's been on several final lists, but that doesn't count in recruiting. If he doesn't produce next year he's gone...and rightfully so.
Since I believe we are due for a season in which we suffer no season ending injuries, and I am becoming more optimistic from the legal proceedings that we will at least have Black and Nunn back next year, I will take you up on your generous offer. What kind of car will I be getting?
My guess is a Gremlin
"I sincerely hope that the jumpy, declarative, hyper-optimistic "insiders" here (and elsewhere, they weren't alone on the Tilmon thing) are not reflective of the actual opinions of our staff. I find it hard to believe that a seasoned college basketball coach like John Groce would be capable of being that naive."
Heard that Cliff to Illinois was believed by all, especially the press prior to his committment. I have to believe Cliff and Family gave the coaches that impression until something changed late.
In the past Cory Magette to Illinois was a done deal to a very late change to
Duke. I believe Sherron Collins and Julian Wright to Illinois was also believed by Weber. Funny how many of these last minute changes were to Self/Kan$a$.
Heard that Cliff to Illinois was believed by all, especially the press prior to his committment. I have to believe Cliff and Family gave the coaches that impression until something changed late.
In the past Cory Magette to Illinois was a done deal to a very late change to
Duke. I believe Sherron Collins and Julian Wright to Illinois was also believed by Weber. Funny how many of these last minute changes were to Self/Kan$a$.
I thought we were "due" to not have a bunch of season ending injuries in football as well...
I indicated that until it is public, it may change. Nowhere have I said that he is a sure thing. All recruiting info is second or third hand unless you are present during the conversations.
I also try to avoid annoying phrases like "lock" or "he gawn."
If we can continue to get the effort that got us a win over Iowa in the Big Ten Tourney we will be fine next year. Barring injuires we have a decent core coming back ( I think Black will be back, not sure about anybody else). I expect Finke, DJ, and Jordan to be much improved. We finally have a PG and possibly two good ones (TJL and Abrams). JCL is going to be good out of the box next year. I think our top 8-9 players rotation can make the NCAA. (Hill, Abrams, JCL, Morgan, Finke, Black, DJ, Kipper, Jordan,TJL, possibly Nunn, Thorne).
Not really accurate on many fronts. I know quite a lot of HS and AAU coaches, as well as people in the Illinois AD, and most did not believe that Cliff was coming to UI. Still, does not excuse his low class behavior during his PC.
For the very ol' timers, Maggette posted in the old UI BTFF the night before his announcement thanking Illini fans for all the support during his recruitment, especially during his OV (for those with very strong memory, he visited the same weekend as Cleotis Brown). Maggette was supposed to announce the next day at Rainforest Cafe in Chicago along with Quentin Richardson. He posted in the UI BTFF that out of respect for the state fans (UI) and him making an unpopular decision (Duke), he was not going to attend the PC, something that had not been published in the press. The next morning the Sun Times jumped the gun and had a front page article in the sports section stating that Maggette was going to pick UI, although most others believed it was going to be Duke. That was just bad reporting by the ST and Taylor Bell, not the predominant opinion. Maggette did announce for Duke... keeping true to his post in BTFF, did not attend the Rainforest Cafe PC.
Julian Wright cut his list to 3 (Arizona, Illinois, DePaul). After visiting Arizona and Illinois, reports started to circulate that Julian Wright was not happy with either visit. DePaul fans were actually sure he was going to end up at DePaul, citing the close relationship between Leitao and Wright's mother. Self did swoop in and got Wright only with a home visit (unusual) but Wright was far from a done deal to UI.
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