Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (April-June 2016)

[89illinigrad]

All these offers can't be legitimate or commitable. I would think the staff would have a priority list, but why offer if the recruit can't commit. Possibly have given higher priority recruits (Tilmon, Goodwin, Eastern) a timeline to commit. If that doesn't happen have to take another recruit. I believe Deron Williams committed in August or September, pretty late to Illinois. JCL also committed in early fall if I recall. So I guess Groce and staff still have about 4-5 months before panic sets in.

My guess is that Groce wants to make sure he gets at least one big in the 2017 class, so all these offers to the "other" bigs (besides Tilmon) are on a first come first served basis.

Once he locks up one big, he can go all in on Tilmon, knowing that he has already got a commitment from "Plan B".

Same thing probably goes for the guards/small forwards, get a commitment early from one of the "Plan B" kids then go all in on Goodwin.

 

[Illinijose]

These kids don't fear competition generally. Everyone thought Ulis was going to Kentucky to get buried at the end of the bench, for example.

I don't think anyone is making the argument that going to a blue blood school is a guarantee against a dropping draft stock. That's a bit of a straw man.

Matthews from St. Rita/Chicago and former MCAA says hello from the bench.

 

[Robert Bennett]

Unfortunately as I mentioned in previous post, there is not much evidence to support the assertion that Illinois is the safest and fastest path to the NBA for McD AA players. Our best example, among many failures in the last 25+ years is Brian Cook, and it took Brian 4 years to end up at the end of round 1 in the draft. Not every McD AA will have success in the draft or in the NBA (especially after 1 year), but we can't point to UK and KU as failures, since they have historically had much more success putting McD AA in the NBA, even percentage wise. Actually this is a very strong point for Cal and Self. Not sure how you can call Skal Labissiere, Isaiah Briscoe, Braggs, Cheick Diallo etc failures after 1 year.

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=1211048&postcount=1071

Those last four you name did not play up to their rankings or the hype that came around them so I would agree they flopped in their first yr of collage and would have been better in yr 2 if they stayed in school , heck JCL out played all of them in his first year., and he didn't even have to go to the tournament to prove that.

 

[spillini]

With 25 Offers can't imagine they are first come first serve. Especially with 6 to 7 months before the November Official signing day. I could see T Lewis, Goodwin, Eastern, Tilmon, John, and a couple of other bigs (Kiir) being commitable.

I'm a bit of a recruiting novice. How are 'non-committable' offers communicated to the recruits, exactly, if at all? Do they deal with it once the player says "I'll commit if the offer's still on the table"? or is it more explicit where a team's Plan A target is known and the player is aware that they're Plan B or lower?

 

[Obelix]

Those last four you name did not play up to their rankings or the hype that came around them so I would agree they flopped in their first yr of collage and would have been better in yr 2 if they stayed in school , heck JCL out played all of them in his first year., and he didn't even have to go to the tournament to prove that.

It is not just about playing time for these players. If the issue is playing time, then any low level university can make a strong case that if these McD AAs commit to them, they will get plenty of PT. And better stats. Even more than Illinois.

But getting to the NBA or placement in the draft quickly, as per post above, is much different. JCL would not go higher in the draft than Skal Labissiere, Isaiah Briscoe, Braggs, or Cheick Diallo. Unless you believe that.

 

[TCTORNADO]

Charlie Moore working on a visit to Iowa. It could come as soon as this weekend.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Unfortunately as I mentioned in previous post, there is not much evidence to support the assertion that Illinois is the safest and fastest path to the NBA for McD AA players. Our best example, among many failures in the last 25+ years is Brian Cook, and it took Brian 4 years to end up at the end of round 1 in the draft. Not every McD AA will have success in the draft or in the NBA (especially after 1 year), but we can't point to UK and KU as failures, since they have historically had much more success putting McD AA in the NBA, even percentage wise. Actually this is a very strong point for Cal and Self. Not sure how you can call Skal Labissiere, Isaiah Briscoe, Braggs, Cheick Diallo etc failures after 1 year.

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=1211048&postcount=1071

To really study this, you need to look at the whole sample size and control for the talent level to isolate the value added by the coaches.

This has been done, on this board at some point IIRC. The names at the top weren't surprising. Cal, Izzo, Self. Rick Barnes at the bottom. These reputations develop for a reason.

 

[Robert Bennett]

It is not just about playing time for these players. If the issue is playing time, then any low level university can make a strong case that if these McD AAs commit to them, they will get plenty of PT. And better stats. Even more than Illinois.

But getting to the NBA or placement in the draft quickly, as per post above, is much different. JCL would not go higher in the draft than Skal Labissiere, Isaiah Briscoe, Braggs, or Cheick Diallo. Unless you believe that.

So are we basing that off potential or season performance ? or both?, Because JCL outplayed them on those two ends too , and I'm not saying this because he plays for us , it just looks like his skill set could be used Immediately on a team and I guess he would have to impress at the pro camps too.

 

[Obelix]

So are we basing that off potential or season performance ? or both?, Because JCL outplayed them on those two ends too , and I'm not saying this because he plays for us , it just looks like his skill set could be used Immediately on a team and I guess he would have to impress at the pro camps too.

Again, if the issue is NBA draft and high position, JCL would not go higher than Skal Labissiere, Isaiah Briscoe, Braggs, or Cheick Diallo. C'mon now, you seriously believe that if JCL came out this year he would go 1st round and higher in the draft? As I said, if you believe that, fine.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

With 25 Offers can't imagine they are first come first serve. Especially with 6 to 7 months before the November Official signing day. I could see T Lewis, Goodwin, Eastern, Tilmon, John, and a couple of other bigs (Kiir) being commitable.

Kiir would need to get an offer first, and he doesn't have one -- from anybody.

http://247sports.com/Player/Mayan-Kiir-83588

 

[Obelix]

With 25 Offers can't imagine they are first come first serve. Especially with 6 to 7 months before the November Official signing day. I could see T Lewis, Goodwin, Eastern, Tilmon, John, and a couple of other bigs (Kiir) being commitable.

Too early. Wait until visits start taking place.

 

[GreenwoodAve]

Charlie Moore working on a visit to Iowa. It could come as soon as this weekend.

For goodness sake I can live him with him not coming to Illinois, but please not another B10 school.

 

[Jkat00]

Charlie Moore working on a visit to Iowa. It could come as soon as this weekend.

Not worried.

 

[Robert Bennett]

Again, if the issue is NBA draft and high position, JCL would not go higher than Skal Labissiere, Isaiah Briscoe, Braggs, or Cheick Diallo. C'mon now, you seriously believe that if JCL came out this year he would go 1st round and higher in the draft? As I said, if you believe that, fine.

That will be based on how he performed at these combines because none of the ones you name helped their draft status in their collage seasons and the only potential they have right now is to potentially go back to school , but if I had to guess I think he would be right there with them , now they prolly will go higher just off of what school they went to , but that's just a guess.

 

[orangekoolaid]

That will be based on how he performed at these combines because none of the ones you name helped their draft status in their collage seasons and the only potential they have right now is to potentially go back to school , but if I had to guess I think he would be right there with them , now they prolly will go higher just off of what school they went to , but that's just a guess.

If you think billion dollar franchises are betting their future by drafting these kids based off of what school they went to, then you are pretty much out of touch with reality. It's one thing cheer for our players, but this is completely delusional.

 

[Robert Bennett]

If you think billion dollar franchises are betting their future by drafting these kids based off of what school they went to, then you are pretty much out of touch with reality. It's one thing cheer for our players, but this is completely delusional.

I said prolly and they will go a lil higher for the the simple fact their teams made the tournament and they had extra exposure but it's pretty cut and clear JCL had a better first yr than the names mentioned plus it's only a hypothetical question , and the reality is he out played those guys in his first year no delusion there.

 

[IlliniDent]

Or it comes down to general talent and potential. A lot of those players have a ton of potential, which is why they were so highly rated. JCL had a better season but doesnt mean he translates as well to the NBA currently. In 3 years you can revisit but as it stands you generally have to wait longer for the lower ranked players to play up to a new level whereas higher ranked players are there because their potential is keeping them there even if their production hasnt hit peak yet.

 

[CAHALL15]

That will be based on how he performed at these combines because none of the ones you name helped their draft status in their collage seasons and the only potential they have right now is to potentially go back to school , but if I had to guess I think he would be right there with them , now they prolly will go higher just off of what school they went to , but that's just a guess.

If performance was the only factor, you might be right, but the NBA doesn't draft in that sense all the time. There's a reason why Darko Milicic was a top 3 pick and guys like Luke Harangody are lucky if they get drafted at all. Doug McDermott is 5th in all time scoring in the NCAA and he wasn't a top ten pick. The reason for this is the NBA places a ton of value on potential and athleticism. Skal and all those others will get drafted for those reasons alone and the reality is that JCL, as much as I love having him on the team, would not sniff this draft. Can this change in the future with improved play (which sounds contradictory to what I just said)? Sure. The fact is that if he were to enter this year, he would be just like any other guard with nothing particularly special about him. A short 2 guard who's not overly athletic and is a solid shooter. He needs to have a special season and showcase skills consistently against top competition to even think about getting drafted. Just like the NFL, you have to be invited to the NBA combine and I would bet that he would not get an invite. Plus, the degree of separation in play between the NBA and NCAA is really just astronomical when you consider how seemingly unstoppable college players are a part of the bench rotation in the NBA.

Watch this year's NBA draft and see who gets picked and who doesn't. There's a reason why those Knick fans rarely ever like their pick haha

 

[Robert Bennett]

If performance was the only factor, you might be right, but the NBA doesn't draft in that sense all the time. There's a reason why Darko Milicic was a top 3 pick and guys like Luke Harangody are lucky if they get drafted at all. Doug McDermott is 5th in all time scoring in the NCAA and he wasn't a top ten pick. The reason for this is the NBA places a ton of value on potential and athleticism. Skal and all those others will get drafted for those reasons alone and the reality is that JCL, as much as I love having him on the team, would not sniff this draft. Can this change in the future with improved play (which sounds contradictory to what I just said)? Sure. The fact is that if he were to enter this year, he would be just like any other guard with nothing particularly special about him. A short 2 guard who's not overly athletic and is a solid shooter. He needs to have a special season and showcase skills consistently against top competition to even think about getting drafted. Just like the NFL, you have to be invited to the NBA combine and I would bet that he would not get an invite. Plus, the degree of separation in play between the NBA and NCAA is really just astronomical when you consider how seemingly unstoppable college players are a part of the bench rotation in the NBA.

Watch this year's NBA draft and see who gets picked and who doesn't. There's a reason why those Knick fans rarely ever like their pick haha

I totally agree and see that's what gets me , you would think they would use the.college season as a footnote to what they could become , now honestly I live In Lexington now and seen their players alot and I was like wow all these guys need another year and I just compared JCL to some of their players because he really was a bright spot for the team and had just as good of a season as some of the marquee freshman , so it's like what did you see in those guys that you couldn't see in him because the potential is definitely there.

 

[491illinois]

I like when Tilmon was asked what coaches he has good relationships with, he first said Groce then followed it up with "the North Carolina coach" like he forgot his name. I know it means nothing but it made me chuckle.

These players have grown up with social media their entire lives, digital natives as they are sometimes called. Blue-chip basketball players start getting media attention in middle school. Do you ever wonder, that they players know that not mentioning a coach by name, reciting the standard cliches when asked about a particular program, and so forth is likely to fuel social and mainstream media attention. Sometimes I wonder if these players are smart enough to play games with the media.

 

[IlliniOX08]

Charlie Moore working on a visit to Iowa. It could come as soon as this weekend.

Of course he is. Irvin's with another checkmate on Illinois. Pursue him and get egg on your face or don't pursue him and later claim he loved Illinois but they showed no interest. Of course when it comes out we're gonna go after him, a visit is in the works to Iowa. What a joke.

I recommend no one loses any sleep or has consternation over this.

 

[IlliniFan12]

Charlie Moore working on a visit to Iowa. It could come as soon as this weekend.

Squawks can offer him ample playing time.

 

[The Pontiff]

Unfortunately as I mentioned in previous post, there is not much evidence to support the assertion that Illinois is the safest and fastest path to the NBA for McD AA players. Our best example, among many failures in the last 25+ years is Brian Cook, and it took Brian 4 years to end up at the end of round 1 in the draft. Not every McD AA will have success in the draft or in the NBA (especially after 1 year), but we can't point to UK and KU as failures, since they have historically had much more success putting McD AA in the NBA, even percentage wise. Actually this is a very strong point for Cal and Self. Not sure how you can call Skal Labissiere, Isaiah Briscoe, Braggs, Cheick Diallo etc failures after 1 year.

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=1211048&postcount=1071

The point of my post wasn't to argue that Illinois does a better job getting McDs to the pros, but rather that it's basically a myth that just because a kid picks a blue-blood like KU or UK, that they've picked their best route to the NBA.

Now I'll admit that there's a flaw in this logic, as who's to say Bragg or Briscoe would have showcased better at say an Illinois with I'm assuming more playing time. Maybe they would have been exposed just as easily as not ready. Or not.

But I'm guessing based on the pre-season expectations for Labissiere, Diallo, and Briscoe, the fact that their stock has dropped so dramatically in one year has to be somewhat disconcerting to them and probably more so, their handlers, who I'm also guessing were thinking that they'd be getting a nice payday after one year. And now that they've been relatively downgraded, they have to spend another year in college to hopefully rehabilitate their stock, but as in the nature of UK and KU, they get to compete against the next crop of top 10 guys, who may end up being the real deal.

At the end of the day, I think these kids and their camps need to really examine and be realistic about where they stand. If Tillman's camp has aspirations that he's going to be one-and-done, like a Julius Randle or Joel Embid, then more power to them, though I don't know if that's necessarily realistic. Given that he's not currently a top 10 guy, it's more likely that he's going to have to develop while potentially competing against top 10 guys, which may require multiple years until it's his time, if that even materializes.

Bottom line, unlike I think a Harvard law degree, a HS basketball player going to KU, UNC or UK isn't a sure ticket to the NBA, as I believe was implied by the original poster.

 

[Epsilon]

Not worried.

Because you don't care, don't think he was coming here anyway, or think he will come anyway?

 

[JohnDeereIllini]

Alex Roux just tweeted this:

Hearing re: the Tilmon recruitment. "The longer this drags out, the worse it is for (Illinois.) ...but getting Moore can turn it around."


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