Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (August 2018)

[illini80]

Ah, but Cinderella (#Aschenputtel) was rated as a mid 2 star by 247 back in the day - she worked her tail off (and with the help of a mystical shoe company - #FGMother) she proved to the doubters she was a stone cold 5 star by her sophomore year.

We missed on her after handlers got involved and she knew she'd be stuck behind the step sisters for floor time at the big dance.

 

[Greensboro]

Coming in in March, I find it really difficult to characterize Underwood's first class as "year 1." Slap a big, fat asterisk on it.

I think an asterisk applies for any new coach, another asterisk for the fact all BU spring signees are gone...but Groce's first class with an asterisk was nada (I think Webber had Orris committed) , Nunn/Hill and crew was year 2 with an asterisk...so i think in recruiting comparisons Underwood needs to get some credit for keeping 2 Groce recruits & adding 3 new recruits in the spring. Times were different, in Groce wasn't sitting on as empty of a roster. *****

 

[DudeIllini]

As it turned out, not getting Evans was a stroke of luck. But it's not like anyone knew that at the time, including Underwood who pursued him aggressively.

I still firmly believe that if OSU had gone in another direction and we had brought in Mike Boynton and Evans in addition to Jamall Walker (as was clearly BU's initial plan) along with not losing Stephen Gentry as DOBO to Gonzaga, in a hypothetical world where Evans doesn't get taken down by the FBI thing, we would have been a MUCH better basketball team last year. A serious NCAA tournament contender, possibly even better than that.

Despite your painting the walls of this message board with your "assistant coaches not being able to teach BU's system last year" narrative, I would be willing to bet that the majority of this board would see an Evans/Boynton/Gentry staff creating only incremental improvement, if any, last year. We didn't have the ponies, and Antigua's work with Black was incredible.

 

[SescIllini]

Big fan of JCL, but his defense was some of the worst I have seen in an Illini uniform, comparable to a Matic pick attempt. Probably relied on his shooting ability and defense wasn't stressed in the AAU.

 

[Ratskin]

D

We missed on her after handlers got involved and she knew she'd be stuck behind the step sisters for floor time at the big dance.

Don’t you guys have jobs? lol

 

[foby]

You can't go back in time, but I am definitely interested to see how he does at DePaul. I wish him the best and suspect he might reappear as a better player.

The post-Illini careers of Myke Henry and Kendrick Nunn speak volumes, IMO. You could even include Mike LaTulip in that to a certain extent. Ahmad Starks and Aaron Cosby were also much better players in their pre-Illini iterations.

I'm sure fans of just about every power conference school can make similar lists. Sometimes the right school is chosen, and sometimes not. I am sure you weren't saying this was some sort of Illini syndrome, but was just clarifying that it is not the case.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I would be willing to bet that the majority of this board would see an Evans/Boynton/Gentry staff creating only incremental improvement, if any, last year. We didn't have the ponies

The facts are these. (All per Kenpom)

In year 1 at SFA, Underwood, Boynton and Gentry transformed offense #215 into offense #58
In year 1 at OSU, Underwood, Boynton, Gentry and Evans transformed offense #151 into offense #1
In year 1 at Illinois, Underwood alone transformed offense #123 into offense #86

As I said during the season, all the major elements of Underwoodball were there for us, it's not like that transformation wasn't being attempted, but we were just a bad cover band version of the immediate sweet music he'd made at his other spots.

Having singularly terrible players is a potential explanation for that. A total lack of experience on the part of the staff in installing the system, getting the little things right, being multipliers of the coaches expertise, being the mortar connecting the bricks, that seems like the far more plausible explanation to me.

The good news is, while our staff still aren't truly "Underwood guys", they are unquestionably better equipped to be teachers of this system now than they were a year ago. That is one of my biggest sources of positivity when I look toward this coming season.

I'm sure fans of just about every power conference school can make similar lists. Sometimes the right school is chosen, and sometimes not. I am sure you weren't saying this was some sort of Illini syndrome, but was just clarifying that it is not the case.

Not that it's an Illini syndrome, but I think that John Groce was a poor developer and deployer of talent. Not up to Big Ten standards in those regards.

 

[DudeIllini]

The facts are these. (All per Kenpom)

In year 1 at SFA, Underwood, Boynton and Gentry transformed offense #215 into offense #58
In year 1 at OSU, Underwood, Boynton, Gentry and Evans transformed offense #151 into offense #1
In year 1 at Illinois, Underwood alone transformed offense #123 into offense #86

As I said during the season, all the major elements of Underwoodball were there for us, it's not like that transformation wasn't being attempted, but we were just a bad cover band version of the immediate sweet music he'd made at his other spots.

Having singularly terrible players is a potential explanation for that. A total lack of experience on the part of the staff in installing the system, getting the little things right, being multipliers of the coaches expertise, being the mortar connecting the bricks, that seems like the far more plausible explanation to me.

The good news is, while our staff still aren't truly "Underwood guys", they are unquestionably better equipped to be teachers of this system now than they were a year ago. That is one of my biggest sources of positivity when I look toward this coming season.



Not that it's an Illini syndrome, but I think that John Groce was a poor developer and deployer of talent. Not up to Big Ten standards in those regards.

I mean going from offense #123 to #86 while returning only 30% of the previous year's scoring is pretty darn impressive...

 

[sacraig]

The facts are these. (All per Kenpom)

In year 1 at SFA, Underwood, Boynton and Gentry transformed offense #215 into offense #58
In year 1 at OSU, Underwood, Boynton, Gentry and Evans transformed offense #151 into offense #1
In year 1 at Illinois, Underwood alone transformed offense #123 into offense #86

As I said during the season, all the major elements of Underwoodball were there for us, it's not like that transformation wasn't being attempted, but we were just a bad cover band version of the immediate sweet music he'd made at his other spots.

Having singularly terrible players is a potential explanation for that. A total lack of experience on the part of the staff in installing the system, getting the little things right, being multipliers of the coaches expertise, being the mortar connecting the bricks, that seems like the far more plausible explanation to me.

The good news is, while our staff still aren't truly "Underwood guys", they are unquestionably better equipped to be teachers of this system now than they were a year ago. That is one of my biggest sources of positivity when I look toward this coming season.



Not that it's an Illini syndrome, but I think that John Groce was a poor developer and deployer of talent. Not up to Big Ten standards in those regards.

Of course, there are also mitigating facts here:
In year 1 at SFA, Underwood had a much lower level of competition than he does in the Big Ten.
In year 1 at OSU, Underwood had an NBA talent on the roster in Jawun Evans.
In year 1 at Illinois, Underwood was coaching what was essentially the national team from the Island of Misfit Toys. Lots of potential and good people there, but no history of actually putting it all together (or even getting particularly close).

All things considered, I was still happy with last year's improvements on both sides of the ball, even if the W-L record didn't reflect it as much as hoped. That was still nearly a 40-spot improvement on offense despite Finke suddenly forgetting how to shoot, having no other real sharpshooters, and losing most of our production from the previous year.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I mean going from offense #123 to #86 while returning only 30% of the previous year's scoring is pretty darn impressive...

For context, at SFA he lost 3 of their 4 top scorers including their conference's player of the year. Being in the 50's at a school that small is more impressive than it would be here. And of course he was inheriting a couple talented pieces, but a garbage overall team at OSU. Those were AMAZING, instant, totally coach-driven turnarounds. That's why Underwood was such a great hire.

#86 is a bad offense in a major conference. #123 is, well, you should probably fire your coach if a veteran-laden roster can't do any better than that, and indeed we did.

By the way, Illinois continued the trend of Year 1 Underwood teams taking big steps backward on defense. Lots of forced turnovers, but way too many layups. THAT part was not just us.

So we got the bad, but not the good.

If we take our practically brand-new roster and get that Year 1 Underwood offensive bounce, but make the same defensive strides that SFA did in Year 2, this board is going to be a joyous line of people dunking on me, and I'll be the happiest one here.

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

Random question about past recruiting... who was the lead recruiter on Tevian Jones?

Chin was the lead on Tevian Jones. However, BU helped a lot on the OV

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

Now for the other guy..... I think his fate will be determined on where one EJ Liddell chooses to commit.

Couldn't agree more, just hope BU isn't afraid to make a change.

If he were to make a change my number 1 candidate would be Jonas Hayes.

Jonas Hayes is on staff at Xavier. He's already brought in 3 commits ( 2 in '19, 1 in '20) for Xavier from his home state of GA. The kids might not be top 100 players but just looking at some of there offers I am impressed that he has been able to recruit that well, only being at Xavier for a few months.
https://247sports.com/player/elias-king-45572912
https://247sports.com/Player/Daniel-Ramsey-46043161/
https://247sports.com/Player/Dwon-Odom-46048449

 

[Deleted member 8632]

Of course, there are also mitigating facts here:
In year 1 at SFA, Underwood had a much lower level of competition than he does in the Big Ten.
In year 1 at OSU, Underwood had an NBA talent on the roster in Jawun Evans.
In year 1 at Illinois, Underwood was coaching what was essentially the national team from the Island of Misfit Toys. Lots of potential and good people there, but no history of actually putting it all together (or even getting particularly close).

All things considered, I was still happy with last year's improvements on both sides of the ball, even if the W-L record didn't reflect it as much as hoped. That was still nearly a 40-spot improvement on offense despite Finke suddenly forgetting how to shoot, having no other real sharpshooters, and losing most of our production from the previous year.

Nobody wants a Charlie in the box.

 

[TheGMan]

Those were AMAZING, instant, totally coach-driven turnarounds.

I generally don't mind your posts and outlook as much as other people on this board. But I feel it's statements like this that bothers people the most. It is impossible to assign total "blame" on any one aspect in a situation like this. Is it possible that it was "totally coach-driven?" Sure, anything is possible. Is it likely? Probably not, since the players have the most direct relationship to the on-court outcome. But one thing is without question, is that no one will ever know, not even the coaches or players, because there is just no way to know completely. There are too many variables.

 

[Joel Goodson]

To the extent that's true, certainly he's not the one you get rid of. And to the extent it's true, it certainly puts a cramp in my narrative, completely fair.

haha, my sarcasm wasn't directed at you. Not this time, anyway.

 

[Tevo]

Ah, but Cinderella (#Aschenputtel) was rated as a mid 2 star by 247 back in the day - she worked her tail off (and with the help of a mystical shoe company - #FGMother) she proved to the doubters she was a stone cold 5 star by her sophomore year.

Ruled ineligible due to impermissible benefits from the mystical shoe company. And for cruising around in a sweet, and hard-to-explain Pumpkin Carriage.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I generally don't mind your posts and outlook as much as other people on this board. But I feel it's statements like this that bothers people the most. It is impossible to assign total "blame" on any one aspect in a situation like this. Is it possible that it was "totally coach-driven?" Sure, anything is possible. Is it likely? Probably not, since the players have the most direct relationship to the on-court outcome. But one thing is without question, is that no one will ever know, not even the coaches or players, because there is just no way to know completely. There are too many variables.

If I'm guilty of over-stating my case from time to time (slash always) I apologize. I like to think people can see that I'm just being colloquial rather than trying to be deceptive or something.

The point is, when you look at the instant impact Underwood was able to make at SFA and OSU, both looking at numbers and the eye test of having seen a good amount of that OSU team, as well as some of the later-year SFA teams, you are left with the strong impression that Brad Underwood is the absolute real deal with a greaseboard and in the practice gym. An X's and O's puppeteer who belongs at the Big Ten level. And with very little to no evidence to the contrary. Programs like ours are able to land resumes like that very, very rarely.

I went back and perused through the coaching search thread and I was making this exact same point as many of the posters in this thread were pouting that we weren't getting Tony Bennett or Gregg Marshall.

We haven't seen that guy yet. There has been a lot of turbulence. Let's all hope we see that guy going forward, because if we can get the roster and staff stuff right, this guy has the raw coaching horsepower to win, and win in a for real big time way.

 

[t7nich]

The facts are these. (All per Kenpom)

In year 1 at SFA, Underwood, Boynton and Gentry transformed offense #215 into offense #58
In year 1 at OSU, Underwood, Boynton, Gentry and Evans transformed offense #151 into offense #1
In year 1 at Illinois, Underwood alone transformed offense #123 into offense #86

As I said during the season, all the major elements of Underwoodball were there for us, it's not like that transformation wasn't being attempted, but we were just a bad cover band version of the immediate sweet music he'd made at his other spots.

Having singularly terrible players is a potential explanation for that. A total lack of experience on the part of the staff in installing the system, getting the little things right, being multipliers of the coaches expertise, being the mortar connecting the bricks, that seems like the far more plausible explanation to me.

The good news is, while our staff still aren't truly "Underwood guys", they are unquestionably better equipped to be teachers of this system now than they were a year ago. That is one of my biggest sources of positivity when I look toward this coming season.



Not that it's an Illini syndrome, but I think that John Groce was a poor developer and deployer of talent. Not up to Big Ten standards in those regards.

Respect

 

[PlayAZ]

Chin recruited our best pg, wing, and big in this class. Really makes you think what the other 2 are doing.

Chin is doing his part (Assisting in steering the ship in Chicago), Walker is the familiarity piece (Chicago and past connections), and Antigua gets us into regions that up until now, we probably wouldn't have gotten into really (Kofi C and S Florida region).

 

[PlayAZ]

So Recruit wish list please vote, if someone knows how to do a pie chart, % chart whatever feel free. If you had to choose ONLY 1 of the following based on 2 criteria's, (want and possibility of landing) who do you want?

A) Jitoboh
B) NNaji
C) Tschiebwe

Who is your choice based on BOTH criteria? I think Nnaji is mine overall?

 

[Joel Goodson]

So Recruit wish list please vote, if someone knows how to do a pie chart, % chart whatever feel free. If you had to choose ONLY 1 of the following based on 2 criteria's, (want and possibility of landing) who do you want?

A) Jitoboh
B) NNaji
C) Tschiebwe

Who is your choice based on BOTH criteria? I think Nnaji is mine overall?

Tschiebwe all day, every day. Sadly, I don't think he's Illinois bound.

 

[PtownIllini8]

If I'm guilty of over-stating my case from time to time (slash always) I apologize. I like to think people can see that I'm just being colloquial rather than trying to be deceptive or something.

The point is, when you look at the instant impact Underwood was able to make at SFA and OSU, both looking at numbers and the eye test of having seen a good amount of that OSU team, as well as some of the later-year SFA teams, you are left with the strong impression that Brad Underwood is the absolute real deal with a greaseboard and in the practice gym. An X's and O's puppeteer who belongs at the Big Ten level. And with very little to no evidence to the contrary. Programs like ours are able to land resumes like that very, very rarely.

I went back and perused through the coaching search thread and I was making this exact same point as many of the posters in this thread were pouting that we weren't getting Tony Bennett or Gregg Marshall.

We haven't seen that guy yet. There has been a lot of turbulence. Let's all hope we see that guy going forward, because if we can get the roster and staff stuff right, this guy has the raw coaching horsepower to win, and win in a for real big time way.

Good post S&C. Glad to see you you are aware that you can be over the top. as we all can.

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

So Recruit wish list please vote, if someone knows how to do a pie chart, % chart whatever feel free. If you had to choose ONLY 1 of the following based on 2 criteria's, (want and possibility of landing) who do you want?

A) Jitoboh
B) NNaji
C) Tschiebwe

Who is your choice based on BOTH criteria? I think Nnaji is mine overall?

A: Nnaji is the best overall player. Hope he doesn't go to IU. If Matthew Hurt doesn't choose Kansas then I think thats where Nnaji lands. He's got a ton of visit set up so if he actually makes it to campus that will only help our cause. I'll give it a 0% chance we get him.

B: Tschiebwe is just an absolute beast. He is my favorite big we are recruiting right now, not named Drew Timme. He held his own against Wiseman in front of Coach Cal. I think he ultimately ends up at West Virginia if UK doesn't offer. I think we might get a visit, and even if we don't I still think we're in the top 4 of his top 8 with UK, West Virginia, and Kansas.

C: Jitoboh is a great player as well, kind of reminds me of Amadou Sow. I like him, but I don't think we get him. I think it'll be Louisville or Florida for him, but if he makes it to campus our chances increase.

Cant forget about Tre Mitchell and Kai Jones. Antigua has a good relationship with Mitchell and is really trying on him.

 

[Ga65]

Nnaji seems to be the best offensive player but Tschiebwe seems better on the boards. Would like to see what Kane looks like because Nnaji looks quick enough to guard a PF and maybe a wing but not as effective vs a big center. Would love to have a choice with either. Jitoboh would be my third choice but a great consolation prize.

 

[Ga65]

How about Nnaji vs Liddell?