Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (January-February 2018)

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#376      
Just the same, Groce deserved credit for keeping Hill on campus even though Hill discussed looking at other options.

Actually, not the same, and a difference that has been lost in the many posts on Illini message boards. There is a big "timing difference" between Trent and Malcolm Hill. When Groce came on board, Hill was NOT a signed recruit. He had just given a verbal to the previous staff. When Groce came to Illiniois, Hill was a junior. Contrary to what many believe, Hill DID NOT sign with Weber, Hill signed with Groce, he was part of Groce's first class who signed with him in the fall.
Trent was a senior who had already signed with Groce, a full class ahead of Hill in the timeline. Huge difference.
 
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#377      

Hoppy2105

Little Rock, Arkansas
Actually, not the same, and a difference that has been lost in the many posts on Illini message boards. There is a big "timing difference" between Trent and Malcolm Hill. When Groce came on board, Hill was NOT a signed recruit. He had just given a verbal to the previous staff. When Groce came to Illiniois, Hill was a junior. Contrary to what many believe, Hill DID NOT sign with Weber, Hill signed with Groce, he was part of Groce's first class who signed with him in the fall.
Trent was a senior who had already signed with Groce, a full class ahead of Hill in the timeline. Huge difference.

Considering we still could have lost Frazier (since we lost 2 other guys in that class) I feel there isn’t THAT much of a difference between Groce having to re-recruit Malcolm and BU having to reaffirm the commitment of DMW and TF.
 
#378      
...........

Trent was a senior who had already signed with Groce, a full class ahead of Hill in the timeline. Huge difference.

Brad Underwood had recruited Trent and Trent was very familiar with Underwood.

Had UoI selected another HC there is some chance. Trent would/could have opted out.
 
#379      
Considering we still could have lost Frazier (since we lost 2 other guys in that class) I feel there isnÂ’t THAT much of a difference between Groce having to re-recruit Malcolm and BU having to reaffirm the commitment of DMW and TF.

There is a huge difference from a player's perspective. It does not mean that a coach does not deserve credit for keeping signed recruits (he does), but there is a really big difference.

When a junior who had just given a verbal re-opens his recruitment on a coaching change, he has full Spring, Summer, and Fall (not to mention potentially Winter and early Spring) to solicit recruiting requests, recruiting input, schedule official and unofficial visits, compare schools and go through full recruiting cycle. Furthermore, pretty much all schools still have available scholarships. This is pretty much what the vast majority of all recruits goes through, the same what, for example, Liddell, Okoro, and lesser recruits will go through coming up, despite personal preferences.

When a signed senior faces a coaching change, and a decision to re-open his recruitment after a coaching change, not only does he have to ask out of LOI and wait for his release (a decision that really "burns" significant time, more than getting denied), but he really faces a tough timeline, really just a few days to make decision with schools already having completed most of their recruiting, with many less openings/opportunities, tremendous time pressure to make contacts, take visits, and make an informed decision. Furthermore, once you re-open and get an LOI release (again, schools will have to wait for that release in order to recruit you), you pretty much have strained the relationship with the existing school, taking that option away, which has great risk. Especially if you are not a top recruit, but a 100+ recruit like Frazier. The decision to re-open a recruitment for a signed recruit is really a lot tougher, has many risks, and is a much more difficult decision.
 
#380      
On a current targets note, I was at the tournament of champions in Springfield this week. I was able to see a handful of targets there. Here is my brief recap.

Bryan Penn-Johnson: Hard pass. The kid doesn't start for his high school team and was the 4th big off the bench. Only played about 6 minutes. When he was in, he was very timid and didn't do much. Unless he was hurt, he will not be an impact player for UI.

Maurice Calloo: Wasn't very impressed. Doesn't start for Oak Hill but that isn't really a knock on him. They start Keldon Johnson (UK commit) and Keyonte Johnson (UF commit). Calloo is not the "big" UI is looking for in terms of team need. He is 6'9" but I didn't see if in the post at all. Was in the corner or on the wing and missed wide open looks from 3. Also only got about 15 minutes of play.

Isaiah Stewart: I know as fans we are all in on Okoro and Liddell, but Stewart needs to be placed in the high priority list as well. Good size at 6'9" and good strong frame. Looks college ready. He has great touch around the rim and is a strong rebounder. Kid will have an impact wherever he plays.

Kofi Cockburn: He is a large young man. Has a college ready body, strong kid. Not very mobile though so I am unsure how he fits the uptempo pace of BU. Good defensive presences as he altered/blocked a handful of shots. Has what I would consider average touch around the rim. Had at least one turn around jump shot blocked by Carte'Are Gordon (SLU commit), so doesn't use his height great always. He took some outside jumpers and I wouldn't be surprised if the backboard got a small crack in it from some. I saw very little touch on his shot outside of 5-8 ft.

There were some younger guys that I was impressed with but no UI offer/interest so I will not post on them. Also lots of seniors either signed/not considering UI (Darius Garland, Keldon Johnson, Keyonte Johnson, David McCormack, Courtney Ramey, Tyger Campbell, Matt Bradley) there. Very good tournament that is worth the price of admission.
 
#381      
Had UoI selected another HC there is some chance. Trent would/could have opted out.

Trent could have opted out as everyone could have, but given that himself specifically mentioned that he would not in an interview with Ryan Evan prior to Underwood getting hired (interview was on March 10, specifically mentioning his relationship and discussions with Josh Whitman), I am not sure about the chances that he would have done that.

But the bottom line is my previous post, the decision for a senior under LOI to decommit after a coaching change at the end of the season, especially for a 100+ recruit, is extremely difficult for the reasons mentioned and has many risks. Definitely not the same decision with a junior who had just previously given a verbal.
 
#382      

Hoppy2105

Little Rock, Arkansas
There is a huge difference from a player's perspective. It does not mean that a coach does not deserve credit for keeping signed recruits (he does), but there is a really big difference.

When a junior who had just given a verbal re-opens his recruitment on a coaching change, he has full Spring, Summer, and Fall (not to mention potentially Winter and early Spring) to solicit recruiting requests, recruiting input, schedule official and unofficial visits, compare schools and go through full recruiting cycle. Furthermore, pretty much all schools still have available scholarships. This is pretty much what the vast majority of all recruits goes through, the same what, for example, Liddell, Okoro, and lesser recruits will go through coming up, despite personal preferences.

When a signed senior faces a coaching change, and a decision to re-open his recruitment after a coaching change, not only does he have to ask out of LOI and wait for his release (a decision that really "burns" significant time, more than getting denied), but he really faces a tough timeline, really just a few days to make decision with schools already having completed most of their recruiting, with many less openings/opportunities, tremendous time pressure to make contacts, take visits, and make an informed decision. Furthermore, once you re-open and get an LOI release (again, schools will have to wait for that release in order to recruit you), you pretty much have strained the relationship with the existing school, taking that option away, which has great risk. Especially if you are not a top recruit, but a 100+ recruit like Frazier. The decision to re-open a recruitment for a signed recruit is really a lot tougher, has many risks, and is a much more difficult decision.

Good points on the recruits perspective. I agree that a recruit has few choices that late in the game. Although, it seems many schools are still out looking in March/April nowadays and would have loved for Frazier to fall in their lap.

I think the main point was giving credit to the coaches for re-recruiting or keeping commitments, though. I was just making the parallel that in both cases, the coach had to make an effort to keep a kid committed. Luckily for us (and to the point you made about timing) it wasn’t hard for BU and TF.
 
#383      

Oldtoysrock

Sarasota, Florida
Anyone who thinks this staff hasn't done fantastic as far as recruiting goes is a lil bonkers inside or their expectations are totally out of whack.



Just saying, I thought they’d do better attracting a big or two, other than Tilmon. Once he decomitted, they were left scrambling with Ebo a fall back and Matic a bit of a reach (so far). Maybe because there was so much uncertainty with the outcome of the USF investigation, OA couldn’t pull in any of the players he had been recruiting there. I guess Chin was the primary with Ebo, wasn’t he?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
#384      
Wonder if we have considered recruiting Chinese players? Large U of I Chinese student population would seem to be a positive.
 
#385      

GortTheRobot

North Bethesda, Maryland
Has the Herard ship sailed? I don't know the academic schedule at UofI, and I know he would have to be on campus for the second semester to be of any use next year. Did the Iowa loss kill our chances?

Regardless, I don's think we can look at any other '18 bigs, we need immediate help, and that means a 5th year. Ebo should be improved next year, and landing a rim protector and rebounder should free up Finke.
 
#386      
Good points on the recruits perspective. I agree that a recruit has few choices that late in the game. Although, it seems many schools are still out looking in March/April nowadays and would have loved for Frazier to fall in their lap.

I think the main point was giving credit to the coaches for re-recruiting or keeping commitments, though. I was just making the parallel that in both cases, the coach had to make an effort to keep a kid committed. Luckily for us (and to the point you made about timing) it wasn’t hard for BU and TF.

I agree, as I said, that in both cases coaches deserve credit. Yet, it is a lot more difficult to retain a verbal commitment of a junior when changing coaches, you pretty much have to re-recruit the player during Spring, Summer, Fall, etc. as pretty much any other recruit with a lot more competition. So, the amount of deserved credit varies.

As for Frazier, given what we know right now, he would have had more schools pursuing him. But current knowledge did not exist, and if you are a 100+ recruit with original short list of schools like Rhode Island, Georgia, etc. it is a big risk to leave a scholarship to Illinois, and start recruitment again in mid-April (for comparison Tilmon got his release April 11) with very uncertain schools pursuing you. Not a guarantee that you will end at a better school than Illinois, and as Jevon Pickett found out the hard way, you can end up at no man's land. The higher the recruit (like top recruits), the easier it is, although the number of schools (at their level and interest) becomes progressively smaller, even for them.
 
#389      
#390      

foby

Bonnaroo Land
The NCAA will meet soon regarding immediate eligibility for transfers, multiple sources have informed FanRag Sports. The main point of discussion in these meetings will be that if a student athlete earns a certain GPA, he or she would be eligible to transfer immediately without a sit out year.
https://www.fanragsports.com/rothstein-ncaa-to-meet-soon-about-immediate-eligibility-for-transfers/

That's great. If a kid gets Robbie Benson'd, he should be able to go play immediately for Gabe Kaplan.
 
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#393      

Deleted member 654622

D
Guest
What's the latest on Flo Thamba? I seem to recall he was announcing soon.

JW said on his radio show the other day that the coaching staff has "cooled" on him. Something about not wanting another project big, or along those lines.
 
#395      
I don't like the immediate eligibility for transfers. I do like the grad transfer rule though. Imagine trying to build a program when you have players that can leave any year without penalty. The recruitment process would never end. You would also have players leaving midseason, like Harris did to Missouri. Bad idea.
 
#396      

blmillini

Bloomington, IL
I don't like the immediate eligibility for transfers. I do like the grad transfer rule though. Imagine trying to build a program when you have players that can leave any year without penalty. The recruitment process would never end. You would also have players leaving midseason, like Harris did to Missouri. Bad idea.

I'm with you. I think it would ruin the game. The rich would keep getting richer and kids that maybe did not perform as well as hoped would be screwed. Makes it tougher on mid majors and down teams like our own.
 
#397      
I don't like the immediate eligibility for transfers. I do like the grad transfer rule though. Imagine trying to build a program when you have players that can leave any year without penalty. The recruitment process would never end. You would also have players leaving midseason, like Harris did to Missouri. Bad idea.

And if they make the gpa cutoff like 3.25 or something, how big you think that pool is gonna be, besides every athlete at unc?
 
#398      
Whitman did an awful lot to keep Trent and the guy from UFlorida that was on Groce's staff as DOBO or something originally found TF at one of the Gator camps.
 
#399      
Unless we can sneak in on EJ Montgomery, Taeshon Cherry, or Tevian Jones for '18. I personally think we should just save the rides.

No time for another "project" big. We need results now.

Antigua is getting paid the big bucks to recruit and to me he hasn't really shown anything for it. Really thought he could've netted a good big guy for '18.

Chin took care of Ayo and got us Greg, and will net us other great players for sure. Walker has been great, and with the looks of things he is keeping that up with Okoro and Liddell among others, but I really just don't see what Antigua has brought to the table because Matic is just a waste of a ride. Time for Antigua to show us what he is getting paid to do.

If you made an album of worst posts in the history of this forum, this one just might make the cover. "Good big guys" dont just grow on trees. Leron Black will be at worst an All B1G 3rd Teamer next season (and probably this season as well if we can turn it around). Finke, while he is definitely struggling now, is still averaging 10 and 5 for us and is playing way out of position. You really think those 2 improve the way they have if Dustin effing Ford were still the big man coach? It's pretty clear that Antigua has made an impact here already, even if he hasn't been able to snag a good recruit yet. :tsk:
 
#400      

SycIllini

Sycamore, Illinois
I’m not sure we have much choice but, to take on another project big. There aren’t that many ready to contribute freshman bigs to begin with and we have shown no sign of being able to attract one to our program. If we don’t get some more bigs in the program and start working with them we will forever be lamenting our lack of big guys.
 
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