We have 2 open scholarship for the '17 class. Assuming we don't both Wilkes and Scruggs, at what point do we take a 5th year transfer? I kinda of like the idea of taking 1 more HS senior and 1 5th transfer. That way we open up 1 scholarship for the '18 class, which we don't even have a scholarship open for any players.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (July-August 2016)
- Status
Joel Goodson
- how was I to know, she was with the Russians too?
5th years transfer in for playing time. Where do we offer opportunity?
They all want to come for the UNC football game to meet our new stealth recruiter.
She can keep doing what she is doing!! :thumb:
Not really, I honestly think it has more to do with luck & right strategy at the right time. Good year for downstate talent matched with high number of scholarships. We hit early with Pickett, then Williams, then Tilmon, such that when we really had our first miss with Goodwin it wasn't a killer. It would be interesting if with Frazier (from Florida) had any impact from Lovie and Tampa connection...but honestly I don't see the football coach swaying a basketball player to that level of enthusiam, so I think we need to give Groce & staff the bulk of the credit. I'm sure a vote of confidence helps, but in the end I think Groce & staff get 99.9% of the credit here.
I think the other good thing about this class is how early we were able to get things to this point...getting Tilmon took a lot of pressure off this class, we won't be able to hold the #3 ranking, but that is a good sign at where we are on the curve & now we are able to potentially fill in around the 4 commits with some very good players that we can now focus on (where others may still be shooting for high targets), but not be overexposed to a miss.
Well, you don't even know who's available until after the season, so you take one when you've decided there's no one available in the 2017 class worth spending it on.
Joel Goodson
- how was I to know, she was with the Russians too?
That's a fantastic selling point to Kiir (or whoever we land).
Last edited by a moderator:
I've been high on Frazier for some time now and believe Scout got his ranking right. Lucas may be the better passer/facilitator and more of a true point guard, but Frazier is the better player. His speed in the open court and ability to change gears off ball screens coupled with solid shooting is a heck of an asset. Really nice up-tempo pace-n-space prospect.
Does anyone think our recruits not being from the Chicagoland area has anything to do with the uptick in recruiting?
Epsilon
M tipping over
- Pdx
Not singling you (or anyone else) out, specifically, but it seems that when Alford is addressed, no one mentions that he coached at a P5 school before he ended up at UNM. I know that the semantics may say that the P5 didn't exist "back then" (look at the strength of the teams in the conference when he was coaching the Sqwaks), but the Sqwakeyes are in a P5 conference and have been a strong basketball team for quite some time. It's not like he shot out of D3, SWMS, UNM, and ended up at UCLA. He was coaching in the BIG and ended up at UNM (for whatever the underlying issues were at the time...). IMHO, he under-performed at Iowa (both on and off the court) and ran to UNM to redeem himself...but it isn't like his first "big time job" is the UCLA gig he holds currently...
OK...hate Alford, rant over....
Yep, there have been a lot of coaches in many sports that have had a big gig go bad, and have had to find ways to redeem themselves to get back. See Lane Kiffin. Here's a guy that managed to fail forward many times. I've seen fail forward in the workplace too many times as well, unfortuntaty. It's just life experience that teaches us that these things happen. I subscribe to the Ricky Gervais principle as far as the workplace goes, but here are some interesting reads on the topic...
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/untitled-article-1421888090
http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ediocre-workers-keep-getting-promoted/253468/
http://www.footballperspective.com/projecting-success-for-new-head-coaches/
And if you happen to be interested in the Gervais principle (highly recommended reading)...
http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/
I think it is a much smaller window to find a fit for a 5th year and much less of an opportunity to sell the kid. You look at the 5th year bigs we have had the last few years, Ekey, McLaurin, Thorne. Thorne/Ekey saw clear paths to start, McLaurin at a minimum knew he was going to play starter minutes between the 4 & 5. I'm not convinced any of them couldn't find a better/more secure situation and would have come here with our situation in 2017. On the other hand if they are good enough to know they start in 2017, then you start competing with very good team that is a key player short, maybe from an early NBA departure of being a national contender.
I don't have any problem with bringing in a 5th year & maybe we can find a fit...I just think it is a much harder sell, and in practice it will be much more difficult than the last few years.
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm willing to believe in the possibility that Alford could reinvent himself as a good coach (freaking Quin Snyder is a quality NBA coach now, so it's already the Twilight Zone as far as I'm concerned) but I have yet to see convincing evidence of that.
UCLA has big ambitions, and Under Armour has big ambitions for them. There's not a lot of time.
UCLA has big ambitions, and Under Armour has big ambitions for them. There's not a lot of time.
I don't disagree. But we'll still take a look I'm sure.
Bubba Eder
- Northeast Missouri
I definitely do, I believe the recruiting will pick up for us when they see what they are missing out on within a few years.
Absolutely, if we still have a schollie, but most of 2017 window will close first, then mid-season transfer window will come and go. We have hit urgent needs so we should be picky, but I suspect first priority will be to fill the last 2 scholarships with 2017 recruits that meet the staff's minimum requirements and not wait until 5th year transfers are available. If we still have a scholarship or find a new one by 5th year season, then we will try to play but I don't expect we will have as good of cards as the last few years.
UCLA is a tough job, even for good coaches and recruiters. You can go to 3 consecutive F4's and still not be enough
In regards to the Alford discussion (recruiting, etc.) though, there is big difference with projected failure of Ford at SLU. Alford stayed 6 years at New Mexico and did pretty well. It was not that he recruited well but under-performed. So if Ford stays at SLU for 6 years and does as well as Alford, he will indeed get opportunities at P5 (although not likely at UCLA level). But if he under-performs, there are higher opportunities he gets fired or SLU accepts mediocrity than Ford getting hired at P5 schools.
If you under-perform at consecutive schools, the great recruiter label quickly fades off (see Pat Kennedy).
UCLA is a tough job, even for good coaches and recruiters. You can go to 3 consecutive F4's and still not be enough
In regards to the Alford discussion (recruiting, etc.) though, there is big difference with projected failure of Ford at SLU. Alford stayed 6 years at New Mexico and did pretty well. It was not that he recruited well but under-performed. So if Ford stays at SLU for 6 years and does as well as Alford, he will indeed get opportunities at P5 (although not likely at UCLA level). But if he under-performs, there are higher opportunities he gets fired or SLU accepts mediocrity than Ford getting hired at P5 schools.
If you under-perform at consecutive schools, the great recruiter label quickly fades off (see Pat Kennedy).
I wonder how much of the sheen left on Alford is related to him never technically getting fired by Iowa.
He did not technically get fired but he did (and does) get nationally criticized for the handling of the Pierce situation. I thought the second was more damaging than getting fired. He did well IMO at New Mexico though.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
I don't say this in a joking manner. Alford is a miserable human. That goes for his wife and his father. And I don't just say that based on things I've read. Had sever interactions with him when I moved to Iowa City. Have a coworker who did a lot of work for Tom Davis and then Alford when he took over. Alford is a bad guu.
Where do you come up with this !!!!? If we get Kiir, he would definitely get PT as a Freshman. A guy Tillman's size isn't playing much more than 25 mpg. And while you could slide Finke over to C, his best position is the 4 spot.
Last edited by a moderator:
I believe what he was saying was Kiir won't be ready to play as a Freshman. Given how raw he is that is likely. Even Meyers played only sparingly as a Freshman and he was raw but much higher up the ladder than Kiir.
Yeah, Kiir is nowhere close right now. Big talent, not ready for the Big Ten. A redshirt candidate most likely.
I think he has next level athleticism and that's a great place to start..also quite happy how the staff has developed Mav so I have great hopes if we land Kiir!
Last edited:
Deleted member 10676
D
Guest
Another Indiana guy flipped Paul Scruggs from the Hoosiers to Xavier this morning. With this flip and Bozich having already flipped I'm thinking it's becoming well known in Indiana circles where PS is headed. Haven't heard anything about his visit to us but it doesn't seem likely he'll make it. (to me at any rate, for whatever little that's worth.)
ps - Actually, to be accurate, I think his previous pick was 'foggy'.
http://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/Paul-Scruggs-at-Southport-54749/CurrentExpertPredictions
ps - Actually, to be accurate, I think his previous pick was 'foggy'.
http://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/Paul-Scruggs-at-Southport-54749/CurrentExpertPredictions
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Alford is a universally recognized a$$hole. Total jerk.
HoopCity
- Huntsville, AL
I am all in on this for next year. Get another big to round this class at 5 and then decide what 5th year we can get at the end of the season.
You will then have one scholarship left for 18 to Finke, Ramey, Dosunmo or maybe Simi Shittu.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status