It remains to be seen, but BU's system has shown consistent sustained success at SFA (I know its not the B1G but still) as well as a tourney berth at OSU. In fact the only place where it hasn't led to a tourney berth has been here at Illinois which leads me to believe that it's not an issue of BU's coaching acumen or style of play, but a matter of getting the right players for his coaching style and defense/offense.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (March 2018)
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It remains to be seen, but BU's system has shown consistent sustained success at SFA (I know its not the B1G but still) as well as a tourney berth at OSU. In fact the only place where it hasn't led to a tourney berth has been here at Illinois which leads me to believe that it's not an issue of BU's coaching acumen or style of play, but a matter of getting the right players for his coaching style and defense/offense.
foby
- Bonnaroo Land
He is on a Top Ten team should all come back. He has a great coach now. He has flourished under the present system, and has no idea how he would perform in a new one (reference Mark Alstork). The person he likely would have most wanted to see him play at Illinois, his grandfather, has passed.
Unless his childhood dream is pretty dangum powerful, there is no way he is coming to Illinois to play.
Peoria Illini
- Peoria, IL
I think what a lot of us missed is the huge void of leadership that was left when Malcolm, Abrams and Mav Morgan graduated. We were all optimistic on how quickly BU was able to turn around the OSU team in his first season, but we didn't have a Juwan Evans on the roster, LOL!
Hopefully those left on the roster learned a few things and the coaching staff learned a few things. Might not be a bad thing for Underwood to not taste success this past season. His run as a head coach had been pretty smooth sailing, save for the 0-6 start to the Big 12 last year.
Here's hoping he recognizes the mistakes he made and corrects them.
Stephens graduates, Martin twins can 5th year transfer or go pro. They are not necessarily coming back. Coach could go back to NBA, or a college job. If Martin twins leave along with Stephens graduating, they are in a way worse position than we are.
Just sayin.
It has to. It's all we got.
Don't know how that's possible. We're down 2 more (current roster) than we were last week.
You need to read my posts again. As clearly indicated by past tense ("Frontcourt was a HUGE problem, and playing wings and SFs in the frontcourt (by necessity) created a huge disadvantage. At the end, the results of the season speak for themselves.") and previous posts in this thread, I was talking about the arguments earlier in the season about Kipper, and previous seasons (specifically Malcolm). I had the same argument that playing Kipper (who is a SF and not PF), and Malcolm (who is also a SF and not a PF) out of "necessity" at PF was not going to be the best for the team. Those results are "in", both for this past season but also for previous seasons with Malcolm whose career ended without a single NCAA tournament.
Whether Hinson is really a PF or not (again I have seen him and IMO is a SF/wing), we will revisit the argument when he plays in college, as far as results. For the record, unless the situation at PF and C radically changes and either we recruit better players at 4/5 or some of the existing projects (i.e., Ebo, Kane, Georgi) really surprise (possible), I still foresee Kipper or Hinson/Jones (assuming at least one commits) playing out of position at PF. That is not by design though or what is best for the team.
Note: I do not want to overplay the fact that I have seen him either, that was last year not this past season. Whether his game has grown into a PF, I guess we will see. But when I watched him he actually reminded me of THT style of play, both using their strength to overpower opponents while driving from the wing. As I said, I think THT was quicker/craftier, but Hinson had more power.
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This is why we need Brad and/or Josh to step in and manage the narrative, immediately if not sooner.
NEIlliniFan
- No longer in New England
Context is everything. We're on a basketball message board. All of my posts are basketball related. Period.
My initial post today replied to a poster who had said "...hopefully Underwood knows something I don't."
I replied (post #2503)
"I would hope the head coach knows more than message board posters too. Looking at many posts' content on this thread, and the Finke/Lucas thread, that doesn't seem to be the case."
Another poster quoted post #2503 and said "I once heard a coach say "We can count." "
Then I acknowledged the statement was made but pointed out that BU didn't say it. Since I don't think BU should be responsible or held accountable to anything a prior coach did or said when he wasn't connected with UI at the time, I continued with the sentence that you and another poster have quoted and taken a shot at.
That sentence was a very brief (clearly too brief) way of saying that what Groce, BW, Self, Kruger, etc. said while at UI in the past has NOTHING to do with whether Underwood knows what he's doing or whether I should trust him to know what he's doing.
Trying to tie the two together is a clear MacGuffin.
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
It's not a perfect comparison, but I'm looking at Calvin Brock's progression from freshman to sophomore as a guide.
2FG% l 3FG% l eFG%
Calvin Brock Freshman
39% l 17% l 35%
Calvin Brock Sophomore
47% l 30% l 47%
Da'Monte Williams Freshman
41% l 23% l 38%
Da'Monte Williams Sophomore (PROJECTED)
45% l 34% l 48%
A little tough to find a great comparison for Da'Monte, but Brock had similar shooting struggles as Da'Monte as a freshman, but Da'Monte played a lot more min/game (17 min/game compared to 6 min/game for Calvin).
I posted a link that describes it, but just to explain. The third number he asked for the effective field goal percentage (eFG%), not the total field goal percentage. eFG% is a total field goal percentage, but it adds weight to 3 point field goals made since they are worth more than 2 pointers. So you can have a "low" FG%, but if a lot of your makes are threes, your eFG% can actually be higher.
NBB1979
UIUCFAN1
- Springfield, IL
I hadn't heard of Antun Maricevic or Marlon Taylor until I read this today - looked these guys up and I'm on board. I had heard of Feliz before - but i'm all for him as well.
Just a quick ? - Maricevic's twitter makes it appear he's a JUCO sophmore - you have him as 5th year grad transfer here. Are you certain he'd be a 5th year guy? I'd prefer a 5th year guy for a big - because i'm hoping Okoro will be our big in the next class
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
Yep. A bad team that makes incremental changes generally stays bad. Making sweeping changes can ALSO keep you bad, but I think gives you a better chance to be good again.
I hadn't heard of Antun Maricevic or Marlon Taylor until I read this today - looked these guys up and I'm on board. I had heard of Feliz before - but i'm all for him as well.
Just a quick ? - Maricevic's twitter makes it appear he's a JUCO sophmore - you have him as 5th year grad transfer here. Are you certain he'd be a 5th year guy? I'd prefer a 5th year guy for a big - because i'm hoping Okoro will be our big in the next class
No that is my mistake he is a Juco Soph, I still wouldn't mind having him though.
Evan Boudreaux, come back to the state please, preferably wearing O&B
sacraig
- The desert
I don't think McGuffin means what you think it mean, unless we are currently searching for an infinity stone or a lost ark or something.
Of course. On that note, I stand by my post. In this case, you have to go by Underwood's prior history, of course. Sure, the "we can count" comment applies to Groce specifically, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Underwood can also count. In fact, yesterday's events seems to prove that point, otherwise he had been recruiting way too many players.
Perhaps you misspoke in this post, but I would argue that the entirety of that thread (and all the rest) indicates that the coaches obviously know more about the situation and coaching and recruiting than the message board posters do. In fact, I don't know how anyone could credibly argue otherwise.
It would be great if we kept a chart on this.
Peoria Illini
- Peoria, IL
Ha Ha.... Love me some JUCO defense! Some of those guys just watched their teammate get ate up!
Deleted member 631370
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Why?
To pacify message board posters who revel in whining about how bad things are?
Everybody is aware that this past season was rough, and everybody is aware that we're undergoing serious roster turnover. But if we get somebody like Tevian Jones and/or Hinson to join a class with a 5* Chicago PG, then it becomes quite apparent that we are cleaning our house of kids that don't really fit our style, and bringing in kids that do.
This isn't unprecedented. Look at Frank Martin's rebuild at South Carolina. His first three seasons consisted of 14, 14, and 17 wins with lots and lots of turnover.
Look at Beilein at Michigan. His first season was a 10-win season -- a significant drop-off from what Amaker was doing before him. He rebounded in year two, but then year three was another disaster.
Matt Painter won 9 games his first year at Purdue.
Tony Bennett's first two seasons at UVA: 15-16, and 16-15.
Jay Wright's first three years at Villanova: 19, 15, and 18 wins -- all NIT bids.
Mick Cronin's first four years at Cincinnati: 11, 13, 18, and 19 wins -- no NCAA tournaments.
Rick Barnes' first two years at Tennessee: 15 and 16 wins.
Gregg Marshall's first two years at Wichita State: 11 and 17 wins.
Scumbag Pearl's first three seasons at Auburn: 15, 11, and 18 wins.
This is not unusual. And Illinois' situation isn't unique. We need to get a LOT better, but no......we don't need to wage some PR blitz to control the bleeding. This is what happens when non-elite programs rebuild.
Deleted member 4333
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I think maybe your sarcasm meter needs some maintenance. ;-)
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