illini80
- Forgottonia
It seems there is an admission issue of some type. No idea if it's a big issue or a small issue. Guess we will find out in 3 weeks if he is on campus or not.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (May 2019)
- Status
Gents, the Memphis situation is a liitle unique and complex but yet simple. Most of the players have played directly for Penny or Miller on AAU. Penny and Miller earned over 250 million in pro and snd endorsement deals. They have college, NBA, and AAU pedigree.
On top of that Memphis has the whole FEDEX and city backing (pro arena, night life). Also, Memhis is not going to turn away anyone academically.
You add the top player and several top 75 players, now you can entice Precious Achuwa. Who is a top 5 player in that class IMHO. Might turn out to be the best NBA prospect, once again IMHO.
I think all the benefits listed above are legal. It would be dumb for Penny give or players to accept deals. The money is chump change compared to what Precious and Wisemen will get in 12 months. Once again Miller and Penny are multi-millionaires they don't need to beg players to play for them.
I think the biggest benefit is the brand of Penny and Miller, plus everything listed above.
On top of that Memphis has the whole FEDEX and city backing (pro arena, night life). Also, Memhis is not going to turn away anyone academically.
You add the top player and several top 75 players, now you can entice Precious Achuwa. Who is a top 5 player in that class IMHO. Might turn out to be the best NBA prospect, once again IMHO.
I think all the benefits listed above are legal. It would be dumb for Penny give or players to accept deals. The money is chump change compared to what Precious and Wisemen will get in 12 months. Once again Miller and Penny are multi-millionaires they don't need to beg players to play for them.
I think the biggest benefit is the brand of Penny and Miller, plus everything listed above.
illini80
- Forgottonia
Oh I get it. I wasn't trying to imply anything underhanded, although Memphis is not known for being squeaky clean either. It's exactly what we hope would happen with Lovie, but didn't.
Some random thoughts and perspective sparked by recent posts....
Talk of Weber is kind of interesting as he was largely considered a poor recruiter, and yet he's doing fine (not great, but fine) at KSU. When he was hired here, the fanbase wanted to make the jump to elite program after Lon and Self showed we could really good. During the negotiation for Self I was optimistic we'd keep him, and I personally believed at the time we were pushing to keep him, that he would eventually win a NC because he was a determined roster-builder. But that's it's own story, and it happened so quickly that folks just moved on to the search.
Enter Bruce. He kept the ball rolling. Season 1 was great, but season 2 was MAGICAL. That team was a bunch of competitive guys recruited by Self, but coached by Weber. And Weber got BUY IN. He kept challenging those guys, and they responded...and a couple guys were NBA caliber, and Deron was All-Star caliber --a true assassin with weapons around him.
Talent + buy-in + coaching = elite success.
Later seasons had less of each of those, and how it happened is a matter of opinion, but IMHO, he recruited guys he wasn't as comfortable recruiting, lost site of what got him there, and was never going to be an elite coach. Once he lost the buy-in, it was too obvious to ignore. Everyone wanted him booted (me included). It was disgusting as a fan to lose the momentum we had.
Enter Groce, who was a bad hire, based almost entirely off recruiting ability, hopium, and being cheap. Total roller coaster. Had a nice first season with Weber guys, but couldn't hold onto the buy-in, and began to take us from mediocrity to irrelevance. Forgetable...If only I could.
Now we have a guy in Underwood who was hired for his ability to coach. And he's getting some good talent, but has 't looked very good in the process.
* Talent | Ayo, Giorgi, Kofi are fantastic gets, and there's several guys that look poised to be solid or potentially impressive (TJ, Kane, AG). BU has an ace recruiter in OA to set him up, but has had a weak closing rate. People keep saying that will get better with winning, but I have doubts. Not sure how he gets guys excited about playing for him, but that's for him to figure out. Anyway, despite the misses, talent is coming in. I think Underwood is relentless and will improve. Ayo going pro means we need in-coming guard talent, so call me worried.
* Buy-in | We have a lot of signs that the buy-in is there. [sips kool-aid] I see success barring a key injury or other disruption, and importantly, Non-Illini fans see the danger too. I expect the usual inconsistency in a team that is still growing up, but I do think we will be proud of this team.
* Coaching - Underwood struggled at times, no question. Coaching is his bread and butter, though, and I think turnover was crushing to getting the culture and system running. I'm expecting he will look smarter this year as guys can more reliably execute, and he can throw things at them that they can handle. Clearly the team was a mess for the first half of the season. That should be an outlier as we simply didn't have enough guys with talent and experience on the floor to hold it together.
No one wanted it to take 2 seasons, but I think the long trudge through the desert is almost over. Just need to see if he can get us to the dance as expected, and bring in the talent more readily. The market for talent is always very competitive, but many coaches have shown you can get to FFs by identifying talent along with a few tough recruiting wins.
Talk of Weber is kind of interesting as he was largely considered a poor recruiter, and yet he's doing fine (not great, but fine) at KSU. When he was hired here, the fanbase wanted to make the jump to elite program after Lon and Self showed we could really good. During the negotiation for Self I was optimistic we'd keep him, and I personally believed at the time we were pushing to keep him, that he would eventually win a NC because he was a determined roster-builder. But that's it's own story, and it happened so quickly that folks just moved on to the search.
Enter Bruce. He kept the ball rolling. Season 1 was great, but season 2 was MAGICAL. That team was a bunch of competitive guys recruited by Self, but coached by Weber. And Weber got BUY IN. He kept challenging those guys, and they responded...and a couple guys were NBA caliber, and Deron was All-Star caliber --a true assassin with weapons around him.
Talent + buy-in + coaching = elite success.
Later seasons had less of each of those, and how it happened is a matter of opinion, but IMHO, he recruited guys he wasn't as comfortable recruiting, lost site of what got him there, and was never going to be an elite coach. Once he lost the buy-in, it was too obvious to ignore. Everyone wanted him booted (me included). It was disgusting as a fan to lose the momentum we had.
Enter Groce, who was a bad hire, based almost entirely off recruiting ability, hopium, and being cheap. Total roller coaster. Had a nice first season with Weber guys, but couldn't hold onto the buy-in, and began to take us from mediocrity to irrelevance. Forgetable...If only I could.
Now we have a guy in Underwood who was hired for his ability to coach. And he's getting some good talent, but has 't looked very good in the process.
* Talent | Ayo, Giorgi, Kofi are fantastic gets, and there's several guys that look poised to be solid or potentially impressive (TJ, Kane, AG). BU has an ace recruiter in OA to set him up, but has had a weak closing rate. People keep saying that will get better with winning, but I have doubts. Not sure how he gets guys excited about playing for him, but that's for him to figure out. Anyway, despite the misses, talent is coming in. I think Underwood is relentless and will improve. Ayo going pro means we need in-coming guard talent, so call me worried.
* Buy-in | We have a lot of signs that the buy-in is there. [sips kool-aid] I see success barring a key injury or other disruption, and importantly, Non-Illini fans see the danger too. I expect the usual inconsistency in a team that is still growing up, but I do think we will be proud of this team.
* Coaching - Underwood struggled at times, no question. Coaching is his bread and butter, though, and I think turnover was crushing to getting the culture and system running. I'm expecting he will look smarter this year as guys can more reliably execute, and he can throw things at them that they can handle. Clearly the team was a mess for the first half of the season. That should be an outlier as we simply didn't have enough guys with talent and experience on the floor to hold it together.
No one wanted it to take 2 seasons, but I think the long trudge through the desert is almost over. Just need to see if he can get us to the dance as expected, and bring in the talent more readily. The market for talent is always very competitive, but many coaches have shown you can get to FFs by identifying talent along with a few tough recruiting wins.
I was simply responding to the claim that our facilities are first rate. Facilities may not get a kid to sign with you but, they can certainly lose a kid that you are recruiting.
Sam Mitchell was also an NBA Coach of the Year.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
Our recently renovated arena is top notch. Our practice facility, however, is 20 years old now and looks it.
Deleted member 236589
D
Guest
And a recent history of winning, connections to the NBA, national exposure and playing on a national stage....which is the NCAA tournament.
Memphis is doing what they're doing because they have an obvious connection to the NBA, a NBA and college superstar (who went to Memphis), a coach with solid relationships with High School coaches and most importantly....momentum.
Now, whether he can actually coach this talent is TBD.
What does Underwood have to sell? Fletch?
Deleted member 236589
D
Guest
Here's a question that is completely opinion and speculation....
Would Weber still be here if Eric Gordon (and Sampson) didn't pull the stunt they did?
I feel that changed the entire trajectory of his employment here.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
I definitely think that he also has OA to sell.
Time will tell if this is all enough
Deleted member 236589
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Guest
It's obviously NOT a crappy job, but what's the sales pitch? We were good when you recruits were 5?
illini80
- Forgottonia
#EveryDayGuys ?
Guess I derailed the conversation, but facilites are brought up from time to time and I was giving my opinion that they are a relatively minor factor in recruiting.
Underwood has a track record and a vision to sell. He has had some success with that, but needs to do more as evidenced by the 3 open scholarships we currently have.
illini80
- Forgottonia
My opinion and speculation is that he would have struggled eventually anyway. However there is no doubt that the IDKWTI fiasco took the wind out of the sails and he never recovered.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
Don't know if he'd still be here now but it certainly would have lengthened his tenure. Hard to say what kind of recruits he might have been able to attract also.
He was also hurt with injuries and behavioral/legal problems, but regardless his teams had problems down the stretch and it is hard to place the blame on any one thing. I wish we had kept him until we could find someone better than Groce, but it is all in hindsight.
At the time Self left for Kansas, I was hoping they would hire Thad Matta who was still at Xavier at that time and doing very well. Being that he grew up in Hoopeston one would think he would have jumped for the Illinois job. Don’t know if he was even contacted to gauge his interest.
Has a Tim Finke feel to it
Deleted member 554798
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Guest
Any new names out there coming out for 2019? Also someone correct me if I’m wrong but if we didn’t have OA it feels like we wouldn’t have any recruits outside of Ayo these past two years. Some of you know way more than I do but that’s how it feels. Should we be looking for new assistants in recruiting?
Probably
sacraig
- The desert
I don't think Groce's problem was ever buy-in. I think the team pretty much bought in every year. I just think what they were buying into was substandard. He had no real system and even players who were fully committed to said system were just playing a game of 1+1+1+1+1 vs. 5 instead of 5 vs. 5.
Wokker
- "The Good Land", WI
Groce's O was checkers. Underwood's feels more like chess.
Weber's was ??? Somewhere in between?
I feel like some of you know more than what’s in your best interest of being a fan. When the Illini last experienced program success we weren’t tracking official visits, commit rates, the scholarship grid, flight trackers, etc.
Honestly, how many of you folllowed that closely during the Henson, Krueger, Self, and even Weber years? I was on the boards then too, and I know it wasn’t. The Charlie V and Shaun Livingston rumors were probably peak speculation, and that pales (imo) of what is discussed now.
The team has been terrible for years. We’ll need to improve recruitng on a consistent basis to sustain success and return to the glory days, that goes without saying. I just don’t understand the urgency some posters have.
We had one of the 10 youngest teams playing one of the 10 hardest schedules, and generally improved over the season. We are returning everyone who played minutes, and are adding a top 50 player at our weakest position. That’s a win so far.
Honestly, how many of you folllowed that closely during the Henson, Krueger, Self, and even Weber years? I was on the boards then too, and I know it wasn’t. The Charlie V and Shaun Livingston rumors were probably peak speculation, and that pales (imo) of what is discussed now.
The team has been terrible for years. We’ll need to improve recruitng on a consistent basis to sustain success and return to the glory days, that goes without saying. I just don’t understand the urgency some posters have.
We had one of the 10 youngest teams playing one of the 10 hardest schedules, and generally improved over the season. We are returning everyone who played minutes, and are adding a top 50 player at our weakest position. That’s a win so far.
Cheskers? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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