Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (November-December 2016)

[IlliniOX08]

With only three other bigs on the roster, I doubt he would redshirt.

I'm operating under the assumption we get a 5th year big. But if not then yea, he will get tick here for sure.

 

[WiscIllini]

Agreed. We cant afford him to sit, like we could ala Finke. Only way he could sit is if we grab a 5th year big too.

It makes zero sense to me how an 18 yo kid can be convinced that redshirting at a mediocre (sorry but its true dating back ~6 years) school is the best for his long term development. Assuming he does RS (big assumption if you ask me) then there are a lot of other schools that give him more immediate playing time in 2018 (Riding the assumption JT plays at least 2 years, which leads to an even bigger if, if JT stays 3+ years).

I also think the April signing period tends to heavily favor blue bloods snagging prospects like Epperson-- someone who may be more raw but with larger upside, mainly due to the fact they might have missed on blue chip players.

Theoretically, redshirting would be beneficial for any player's development.

 

[IlliniOX08]

Agreed. We cant afford him to sit, like we could ala Finke. Only way he could sit is if we grab a 5th year big too.

It makes zero sense to me how an 18 yo kid can be convinced that redshirting at a mediocre (sorry but its true dating back ~6 years) school is the best for his long term development. Assuming he does RS (big assumption if you ask me) then there are a lot of other schools that give him more immediate playing time in 2018 (Riding the assumption JT plays at least 2 years, which leads to an even bigger if, if JT stays 3+ years).

I also think the April signing period tends to heavily favor blue bloods snagging prospects like Epperson-- someone who may be more raw but with larger upside, mainly due to the fact they might have missed on blue chip players.

You could only afford to sit him for the year if a 5th year big is also on board. Otherwise, yea there's no way he redshirts.

Under the same mediocre program logic, why would a consensus 5-star player be convinced that it's in his best interest to come play for that program at all?

I'm only opining on what would be a great situation for the basketball program to land him. I agree it's a longshot and I agree it's a tough sell and one that isn't likely to succeed. But you and I don't have to sell him - JG does and he's clearly still interested. We can argue the other points all day long, but if Epperson came here it would be great for the program whether he red-shirted or not.

 

[IlliniOX08]

One thing to keep in mind regarding a redshirt. Would you rather Tilmon redshirt a year, have a great year, and then go pro?

OR

Would you rather have him for two years, with the first one having its ups and down. I'll take the second scenario every time. You can't assume he's going to be around more than two years at this point. Plus, redshirting your top prospect doesn't look good to other recruits unless you are a talent factory like Kentucky or Duke

We're not talking about Tilmon? Epperson is not on the same level as Tilmon at this juncture. Tilmon isn't red-shirting and never was.

 

[coryfor3]

Anybody know what is going on with Charles Payton lately? He was supposed to be gaining some attention and was had some contact/interest with Illinois and I think he was offered by Nebraska, ISU, and UIC as a sophomore at Bloomington HS. It seems to me he transferred to Olympia and has sort of fallen off the radar.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

I think we might have a better chance with a guy like Kenny Wooten--prospect outside of the top 100 who we can sell on our ability to develop him into a BIG caliber center (a la Mav).

A quick look at 247 has Kansa as his leader, but if they land some of their higher ranked targets, we should have a shot (DePaul is the only other team listed).

Wooten has received a ton of offers and interest since he de-committed from Nevada. Daniels and Bossi were raving about him at a recent top 100 in the west camp. I'd say ILL getting a west coast big with a lot of west coast suitors isn't real good.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/3132

 

[UCantHideYer]

I know what he's listed at. Watching his highlight videos though I think he looks like a pretty typical high school kid physically. He does appear to have plus athleticism (somewhere between probably right in the middle of Tisdale and Leonard) for a kid his size. Again, I think big men in most cases need time to develop. Now, he can either develop in a RS year (potentially) or develop playing immediately. It's JG's job to convince him of the opportunity UI affords him.

I think back to Shaun Pruitt. While he didn't RS, he barely played his freshman year and didn't really make a true impact until his Jr. year. He was similarly ranked to Epperson coming out of High School and had 25-35 lbs on Epperson (depending which site you reference).

An RS year of nothing but practicing free throws! :thumb:

Has anyone heard indication that Epperson has interest in us? He dominates consideration on our board, but very little feedback from his unofficial.

 

[ChiefIllini]

You could only afford to sit him for the year if a 5th year big is also on board. Otherwise, yea there's no way he redshirts.

Under the same mediocre program logic, why would a consensus 5-star player be convinced that it's in his best interest to come play for that program at all?

I'm only opining on what would be a great situation for the basketball program to land him. I agree it's a longshot and I agree it's a tough sell and one that isn't likely to succeed. But you and I don't have to sell him - JG does and he's clearly still interested. We can argue the other points all day long, but if Epperson came here it would be great for the program whether he red-shirted or not.

Yup we need him or a 5th year to play.

That 5 star stated loyalty as a big factor of coming here. Also, he's an in state guy. Those are two huge reasons we got Tilmon. Epperson has neither of those in his plus column. And yes tradition is a big part of it too, for both of them and yes maybe he's smitten with our coaching staff/pieces that would be on the court around him--but those three points can be said at a much larger degree at at least a few other schools.

What I'm saying is we don't have a huge selling point like we did with JT playing close to home and being on him for 5+ years. We basically gotta give Epperson what we have now. Which is a mediocre program, with a team and coach that has under performed, but has at least a decently bright future and history. Theres schools out there that has those cards in spades and many more advantages. The university doesn't have the same kind of draws for Epperson as it did with Tilmon--regardless of their ranking.

 

[Ulysses Everett McGill]

We addressed 2 huge needs with Tilmon and Frazier ...

Can't be emphasized enough how well this class addressed these critical needs. As to JT's possible length of service (one year vs two), no one seems to mention Frazier's. Obviously we'll have to wait and see but there's a chance TF may be good enough and ready enough for a PG-centric NBA to not be around all four years.

Having not seen Tilmon play at all, what kind of face-up game, ball-handling, and outside shot are we talking about? At 6-10, maybe he's a bit undersized for the 5 in the pros at this point, and maybe his need to develop more 4 skills would translate to a longer tenure for the beloved?

Jacked for this recruiting class. Congrats to Groce and staff for a job well done.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

Obviously we'll have to wait and see but there's a chance TF may be good enough and ready enough for a PG-centric NBA to not be around all four years.

Put down that glass of Kool-Aid, it's starting to leak out of your ears.

 

[Illiniguy13]

Can't be emphasized enough how well this class addressed these critical needs. As to JT's possible length of service (one year vs two), no one seems to mention Frazier's. Obviously we'll have to wait and see but there's a chance TF may be good enough and ready enough for a PG-centric NBA to not be around all four years.

Having not seen Tilmon play at all, what kind of face-up game, ball-handling, and outside shot are we talking about? At 6-10, maybe he's a bit undersized for the 5 in the pros at this point, and maybe his need to develop more 4 skills would translate to a longer tenure for the beloved?

Jacked for this recruiting class. Congrats to Groce and staff for a job well done.

Temper those expectations. I'm as high as anyone on Frazier and have been talking him up before his BOTS show out and he's about 30lbs shy of that notion

 

[ChiefIllini]

I do think though that Epperson playing at La Lumiere does help us slightly. We haven't landed everyone from there, obviously. But we have had a decent track record.

Assuming there wasn't a 5th year big, I would think our case becomes a lot more compelling despite the mediocre past 5-6 years when you look at what he'd be coming in to play with:

PG: Lucas--Frazier--(Verge, maybe?)
SG: Coleman-Lands (played at LaLu)--Aaron Jordan--Da. Williams
SF: DJ Williams--Nichols--Pickett
PF: Black--Finke
C: Tilmon (committed while at LaLu)--(Epperson)

That doesn't read like a mediocre roster, particularly not the second full year of being able to play together. Everyone there is a top 150 recruit except for Finke, Nichols and Pickett, and Finke has outplayed his rank.

I'd like Verge as well. And yeah, the LaLu connection is great and a fantastic pipeline that should be drawn upon.

I agree completely that roster is fantastic. Heck, this year we have TA. JCL, MH, LB who were all top 75 recruits--that doesn't sound mediocre either.

Our mantra over the past few years (sans injuries) has been the whole sum of the parts issue. Rankings don't make a good team. On paper this is a tournament team. But missing year after year, not beating schools we should beat, and just not looking like a team full of top 150 recruits is part of why we aren't anything more than mediocre.

 

[illiniknight]

Probably the only reason we are on Epperson's radar at all is the staff's relationship with La Lumiere. I would love to see him in Orange and Blue but he is a longshot.

I am not sure where they will go for size. Maybe they go with a project high school big man in combination with a fifth year big. The fifth year big for the spare 10-15 minutes of playing time next year and the project big for future years and long-term development. The two open scholarships give the staff flexibility. The problem is there aren't many Big Ten level bigs out there.

 

[illiniknight]

Temper those expectations. I'm as high as anyone on Frazier and have been talking him up before his BOTS show out and he's about 30lbs shy of that notion

+1. I anticipate he will have a great career at Illinois, but he will be around for awhile.

 

[Newman]

I do think though that Epperson playing at La Lumiere does help us slightly. We haven't landed everyone from there, obviously. But we have had a decent track record.

Assuming there wasn't a 5th year big, I would think our case becomes a lot more compelling despite the mediocre past 5-6 years when you look at what he'd be coming in to play with:

PG: Lucas--Frazier--(Verge, maybe?)
SG: Coleman-Lands (played at LaLu)--Aaron Jordan--Da. Williams
SF: DJ Williams--Nichols--Pickett
PF: Black--Finke
C: Tilmon--(Epperson)

That doesn't read like a mediocre roster, particularly not the second full year of being able to play together. Everyone there is a top 150 recruit except for Finke, Nichols and Pickett, and Finke has outplayed his rank.

There's potential at the SF, but I wouldn't surprised to see us play 2 point guards next year, and have JCL be our 3.

 

[TCTORNADO]

Wait until Spring, there will be about 100-125 de-commits from coach firings, about 600 transfers and about 50-75 fifth year guys, plus some HS guys that blow up. We ought to be able to find 2 guys out of that group.

 

[BillMo]

I do think though that Epperson playing at La Lumiere does help us slightly. We haven't landed everyone from there, obviously. But we have had a decent track record.

Assuming there wasn't a 5th year big, I would think our case becomes a lot more compelling despite the mediocre past 5-6 years when you look at what he'd be coming in to play with in the future:

PG: Lucas--Frazier--(Verge, maybe?)
SG: Coleman-Lands (played at LaLu)--Aaron Jordan--Da. Williams
SF: DJ Williams--Nichols--Pickett
PF: Black--Finke
C: Tilmon (committed while at LaLu)--(Epperson)

That doesn't read like a mediocre roster, particularly not the second full year of being able to play together. Everyone there is a top 150 recruit except for Finke, Nichols and Pickett, and Finke has outplayed his rank.

I think it will look more like this
1 Lucus
1/2 Frazier Da Will
2 JCL
2/3 AJ Pickett
3 /4 DJW Nichols
4 Black
4/5 Finke
5 Tilmon

we need a big without question do we need a big that's going to have to play 20 mins no could we take a reach at a slightly lower Big sure we have the option we have to get a big this year or next, 2 in the next 2 years would be best I wouldn't care if we took a flyer on a big underrated HS Kid and go after a 5th year BIg I believe we will have at least 2 rides for 2018 no matter how many guys we take this year I wouldn't be shocked to have 3

 

[BillMo]

I think so too. I was just listing by traditional position, not necessarily a starting 5. I think the starting 5 next year could shape up to be:

Lucas
Frazier
JCL
Black/Finke
Tilmon

At least by the start of conference play. Frazier really fits the mold more of lead guard than traditional PG or SG.. so, at least IMO, he's perfect to be that 2nd pg.

I say it will be

LUCAS
JCL
DJW/AJ
Black
Tilmon
and Finke will come in for either black or Tilmon who ever gets the first foul, but it could be the other way around and it be black comeing off the bench. BUT deep down I think Finke and Black start Tilmon and Kipper are the back ups

 

[combes]

Tilmon will start from day one.

Other than Tilmon, Finke may be the best NBA prospect on the roster.

 

[BirdDog9048]

I think so too. I was just listing by traditional position, not necessarily a starting 5. I think the starting 5 next year could shape up to be:

Lucas
Frazier
JCL
Black/Finke
Tilmon

At least by the start of conference play. Frazier really fits the mold more of lead guard than traditional PG or SG.. so, at least IMO, he's perfect to be that 2nd pg.

I don't think there's any way a freshman Frazier starts over a junior DJW. Just because the 2017 recruits are new and exciting, that doesn't mean everyone else on the roster becomes chopped liver.

 

[89illinigrad]

Wooten has received a ton of offers and interest since he de-committed from Nevada. Daniels and Bossi were raving about him at a recent top 100 in the west camp. I'd say ILL getting a west coast big with a lot of west coast suitors isn't real good.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/3132

Yeah, serves me right for relying on 247 for my info. I agree it will be hard to pry him away from the West Cost.

Groce may have to dig deep and find a "project" big to fill one of the remaining schollys, unless he somehow lands Epperson or Wooten. Give a big bodied kid a few years with Fletch and I believe he could at least have the body of a BIG big.

 

[Cubby Blue]

Wait until Spring, there will be about 100-125 de-commits from coach firings, about 600 transfers and about 50-75 fifth year guys, plus some HS guys that blow up. We ought to be able to find 2 guys out of that group.

Yeah, but as strange as it might sound, Travis Ford wants those same 2 guys.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

There's potential at the SF, but I wouldn't surprised to see us play 2 point guards next year, and have JCL be our 3.

At times, yes. But Lucas and Frazier aren't going to play 40 each, so you'll need 10-15 min there and another 10-15 to back up JCL.

 

[Cubby Blue]

Tilmon will start from day one.

Other than Tilmon, Finke may be the best NBA prospect on the roster.

I have been telling people that same thing.

 

[BirdDog9048]

Tilmon will start from day one.

Other than Tilmon, Finke may be the best NBA prospect on the roster.

Finke getting to the NBA would be a huge plus for this staff when recruiting bigs in the future.