Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (Week of April 12th, 2021)

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#777      
Why are insiders continuing to push that Kofi is more likely to return than to leave? That just seems opposite of common sense. He hasn't even officially declared yet. I'm sure that will happen shortly. He declared last year as an extremely raw player, and was probably 50/50 or worse on returning. This year he showed polish and flashed a big man game rarely seen at the college level. I think its like 90/10 he's gone. That doesn't mean 1st round NBA grade, just means he'd go play professionally somewhere if he goes undrafted. He turns 22 this year, is a powerful inside force that isn't miraculously going to change into a stretch 5, and his best friend, roommate, fellow international player is not returning.
I'm not an insider, but I could see the signs for Kofi saying.

Ex:
1. Podz sounded pretty sure Kofi is staying, which gives you an indication of what the staff might be thinking
2. Kofi wll be a NPOY candidate and a face of college basketball next year. He saw how much of a difference one year made for Ayo. It's definitely encouraging. Getting yourself into the first round draft pick conversation can make a huge difference in terms of how much you make and your ability to negotiate your contract. It's the difference between making 300k and 1million. 1 more year is worth it for that.
3. Kofi showed flashes this year and improved in some areas, but also still shows glaring weaknesses (e.g. free throws, inability to pass, and a mid range game wouldn't hurt)

If he chooses to leave, I support him. Can't blame a guy for chasing a bag, but there are some legitimate arguments for him to stay
 
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#778      
Saw a conversation on Reddit where Syracuse fans stated that he never really learned the intricacies of their zone to Boheim's liking. This combined with some poor decision making apparently cost him minutes.
General consensus is that he never learned how to play the 2-3 zone properly and as a result caused major defensive lapses.
I was watching a Syracuse game near the end of the season and Boeheim (sp?) had Griffin off by himself and was chewing him out at length. Seemed to be a real problem between them.
 
#779      

Illinivek23

Gurnee
Why does the NBA need to have an "all-in" commitment by players before the draft vs MLB that drafts college kids and then pursues them, with the return to college if terms are not agreed to?

I guess the NFL does the same thing. Should push the risk to the pro teams, IMHO, instead of having the players assume most of it, if not all.
 
#780      
Why are insiders continuing to push that Kofi is more likely to return than to leave? That just seems opposite of common sense. He hasn't even officially declared yet. I'm sure that will happen shortly. He declared last year as an extremely raw player, and was probably 50/50 or worse on returning. This year he showed polish and flashed a big man game rarely seen at the college level. I think its like 90/10 he's gone. That doesn't mean 1st round NBA grade, just means he'd go play professionally somewhere if he goes undrafted. He turns 22 this year, is a powerful inside force that isn't miraculously going to change into a stretch 5, and his best friend, roommate, fellow international player is not returning.
To kind of state the obvious - it depends on Kofi’s goals. If he just wants to make a good pro living as soon as possible he should definitely go now. If he wants to develop into an NBA big in the modern game he needs to decide if development here makes more sense than other avenues. Pretty big difference. Yes, he is less raw and more polished in some ways but to counter that - maybe some of that progress has shown a ceiling in certain areas that actually hurts his draft stock.

Hard to say exactly what is going on without him and a bunch of draft scouts and teams getting on the record about their real goals and plans.
 
#781      

Deleted member 747671

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Because the traditional center is no longer traditional in the NBA.
I just think people are stuck in this thinking that "only go pro if you're an NBA 1st rounder." Kofi would make a VERY good living basically immediately regardless of what league he ends up in. I still think there's a good chance he'd be a 2nd rounder. Someone in the NBA would take the chance on him.

Like do people honestly think he's going to come back and work on 3s? His passing could use some work, but I feel like that's hardly a reason to come back.
 
#782      
I just think people are stuck in this thinking that "only go pro if you're an NBA 1st rounder." Kofi would make a VERY good living basically immediately regardless of what league he ends up in. I still think there's a good chance he'd be a 2nd rounder. Someone in the NBA would take the chance on him.

Like do people honestly think he's going to come back and work on 3s? His passing could use some work, but I feel like that's hardly a reason to come back.
If Kofi was an average player considering the draft, yes, I'd get your point. But you're talking about an Ayo level player. Someone who has a legitimate shot at being a first rounder and making millions. It's really not that crazy.

Disclaimer: If Kofi stays, it's not a question of "if" he becomes a NPOY candidate. He is a lock. The amount of attention he'll get with that alone - and if he plays well and shows improvements - will get him into the first round.
 
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#783      
I'm not an insider, but I could see the signs for Kofi saying.

Ex:
1. Podz sounded pretty sure Kofi is staying, which gives you an indication of what the staff might be thinking
2. Kofi wll be a NPOY candidate and a face of college basketball next year. He saw how much of a difference one year made for Ayo. It's definitely encouraging. Getting yourself into the first round draft pick conversation can make a huge difference in terms of how much you make and your ability to negotiate your contract
3. Kofi showed flashes this year and improved in some areas, but also still shows glaring weaknesses (e.g. free throws, inability to pass, and a mid range game wouldn't hurt)

If he chooses to leave, I support him. Can't blame a guy for chasing a bag, but there are some legitimate arguments for him to stay
I think this is a fair breakdown. He also started playing basketball maybe 7 or 8 years ago? His progression has been meteoric (did anyone see how unskilled he looked at Oak Hill?). The generational $$ that NBA bench guys make nowadays is pretty good incentive to try and carve out that sort of role vs going abroad.
 
#784      

Deleted member 747671

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Guest
If Kofi was an average player considering the draft, yes, I'd get your point. But you're talking about an Ayo level player. Someone who has a legitimate shot at being a first rounder and making millions. It's really not that crazy.
I think he has as good a chance of being a 1st rounder this year as he would if he came back, even assuming improvements. He's coming off a year in which he showed immense improvements. He'd be a year older next year, risk "plateauing." I just don't see it anywhere close to the Ayo decision. Ayo is a guard. He absolutely needed to show improvement, and did, in pretty much every facet of his game. Also, Ayo looked A LOT more athletic this year. That's huge for NBA guards.

With Kofi, he was the most physically dominant big in college hoops. Sure he doesn't fit the bill for modern NBA basketball but he has what is now a rare skill set. He came in raw and showed drastic growth. He, and NBA personnel, will think they can improve him more via NBA coaching/training, than by spending another year beating up on smaller centers in college.
 
#785      

Deleted member 747671

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Guest
I don't know. I didn't mean to derail the thread (although that's darn near impossible based on what's been brought up in here lately). I am just trying to stay grounded. Love the pickup of Podz, but there's still a lot of assumptions being made.
1. Trent has not actually said anything about returning. Neither has Damonte.
2. Miller is still more than likely gone.
3. I think Kofi is more likely gone than staying.

I really like the class we're bringing in, and I hope Hutcherson is healthy enough to actually play. I'm going to assume that there will be an answer regarding Miller relatively soon. We'll either grab another transfer or he'll come back. I doubt both would happen.
 
#787      
Why does the NBA need to have an "all-in" commitment by players before the draft vs MLB that drafts college kids and then pursues them, with the return to college if terms are not agreed to?
I've thought the same for awhile too. If you don't get drafted, I think you should have the ability to return to school. If we were actually worried about what's in the best interest of the player, then that would be allowed. And it makes even more sense if we're going to have this no-sit transfer market be permanent moving forward.
 
#788      
It does not matter what they were at their old school. I want players who are 100% committed to being here

oh no wtf GIF by CBC
 
#789      

kcib8130

Parts Unknown
I think he has as good a chance of being a 1st rounder this year as he would if he came back, even assuming improvements. He's coming off a year in which he showed immense improvements. He'd be a year older next year, risk "plateauing." I just don't see it anywhere close to the Ayo decision. Ayo is a guard. He absolutely needed to show improvement, and did, in pretty much every facet of his game. Also, Ayo looked A LOT more athletic this year. That's huge for NBA guards.

With Kofi, he was the most physically dominant big in college hoops. Sure he doesn't fit the bill for modern NBA basketball but he has what is now a rare skill set. He came in raw and showed drastic growth. He, and NBA personnel, will think they can improve him more via NBA coaching/training, than by spending another year beating up on smaller centers in college.
He got lit up trying to guard EJ Liddell early this season.
 
#790      

Deleted member 747671

D
Guest
So effectively he has a 0% chance of going in the 1st next year?
You think he has 0 this year? What will he have to show to be a 1st rounder next year?

Keep in mind, he's a year younger this year, coming off a year where he showed a meteoric rise in skill and ability. Showed an openness to coaching and improvements. And is already a great athlete, especially for his size.

Next year he will be turning 23 before the NBA season, potentially a better passer, free throw shooter, and maybe have a jumper? Is that going to make him a better 1st round prospect? I think it's more likely he plateaus at a level at or slightly above what he showed this year. If that's the case, he loses a lot of that "potential" and also adds a year onto his age. That would make him a lesser NBA prospect even if he's a slightly better basketball player.
 
#793      
I think he has as good a chance of being a 1st rounder this year as he would if he came back, even assuming improvements. He's coming off a year in which he showed immense improvements. He'd be a year older next year, risk "plateauing." I just don't see it anywhere close to the Ayo decision. Ayo is a guard. He absolutely needed to show improvement, and did, in pretty much every facet of his game. Also, Ayo looked A LOT more athletic this year. That's huge for NBA guards.

With Kofi, he was the most physically dominant big in college hoops. Sure he doesn't fit the bill for modern NBA basketball but he has what is now a rare skill set. He came in raw and showed drastic growth. He, and NBA personnel, will think they can improve him more via NBA coaching/training, than by spending another year beating up on smaller centers in college.

No offense, but it doesn't really matter what you think. There are people who get paid to evaluate this for a living that have connections to NBA scouts and teams and they see it differently.

He hasn't shown an NBA-level ability to pass or shoot. He improved his hands and his footwork (among other things) and those are nice strides but his FT shooting regressed which is a huge red flag with regard to him developing any kind of shot outside of 3 or 4 feet.

Think of it this way: How is he going to help an offense in today's NBA? And who is he going to guard?
 
#795      
I see Plummer is announcing his decision this weekend. I wonder where we stand with him without any official word from Frazier and Miller...
 
#796      
I am just trying to stay grounded.
I can sympathize with wanting to plan for him leaving as opposed to expecting him to be back -- the staff has said they're doing the same, after all. I think there are (as others have said) good arguments for why he might return, but he also just needs to hear from one team that they'll take him by pick X to decide that leaving is prudent. Either way though, I think this board is generally overlooking the Payne addition too much. If Kofi leaves we will definitely need another backup 5/4, but I feel pretty good with Payne as our starter. He won't be Kofi, but his defense will make sure we don't fall back to the pre-Kofi, Giorgi-as-starting-center times. Grabbing him so early in this transfer process was a huge get as Kofi insurance.
 
#797      
You think he has 0 this year? What will he have to show to be a 1st rounder next year?

Keep in mind, he's a year younger this year, coming off a year where he showed a meteoric rise in skill and ability. Showed an openness to coaching and improvements. And is already a great athlete, especially for his size.

Next year he will be turning 23 before the NBA season, potentially a better passer, free throw shooter, and maybe have a jumper? Is that going to make him a better 1st round prospect? I think it's more likely he plateaus at a level at or slightly above what he showed this year. If that's the case, he loses a lot of that "potential" and also adds a year onto his age. That would make him a lesser NBA prospect even if he's a slightly better basketball player.
I just read the mocks and he isn't going in the first this year. It isn't my job to evaluate NBA talent but the consensus is clear and I trust the experts. He just got fleeced defensively by a kid from Algonquin who probably celebrated the victory with Arby's, and is going to see significantly better versions of that every night in the NBA. Do I think he can make the jump to the first round next year? Unsure, but maybe. The onus is on BU and co to provide that blueprint, and we'll see how good their pitch is.
 
#798      

Deleted member 747671

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Guest
No offense, but it doesn't really matter what you think. There are people who get paid to evaluate this for a living that have connections to NBA scouts and teams and they see it differently.

He hasn't shown an NBA-level ability to pass or shoot. He improved his hands and his footwork (among other things) and those are nice strides but his FT shooting regressed which is a huge red flag with regard to him developing any kind of shot outside of 3 or 4 feet.

Think of it this way: How is he going to help an offense in today's NBA? And who is he going to guard?
Lol thank you for pointing out that I am not an NBA scout, so I am just like everyone else on here. I'm just trying to make some points. NBA loves "potential." Right now Kofi still has a ton of potential. Next year, he will have less of that potential. I agree he needs to improve those aspects of his game.

There's a lot more to going pro than being an NBA 1st rounder, or even making the NBA at all. Kofi would probably make more next year playing basketball professionally as a 22 year old, than I'd guess almost every person on this board made after graduation.
 
#799      
I see Plummer is announcing his decision this weekend. I wonder where we stand with him without any official word from Frazier and Miller...
I don’t think Miller has all the time in the world to make his decision.
 
#800      

JFGsCoffeeMug

BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
there's still a lot of assumptions being made.
1. Trent has not actually said anything about returning. Neither has Damonte.
2. Miller is still more than likely gone.
3. I think Kofi is more likely gone than staying.
If you're not an insider (and I'm certainly not saying you've ever claimed to be one), then I don't know how you can know any of those things without making your own set of assumptions.

1. We know that Trent's dad and brother have both indicated that Trent is at least thinking about coming back next year.
2. We know that Miller has met with our staff since entering the transfer portal. And that was after entering the transfer portal without meeting with them first.
3. Kofi has yet to declare for the draft, Podz is under the impression that Kofi will still be on the roster next year, and Payne looks more like a replacement for Giorgi than Kofi.

A lot can still change between now and the start of next season, but there seem to be indications of things moving in our favor on some of these fronts. That's far from a guarantee, but it's probably sufficient basis for some guarded optimism.
 
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