Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (Week of May 17th, 2021)

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#455      

RJK01

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RJK01
IlliniKat91 said:
This is such a weak argument. There are literally thousands of college students who drop out each year and end up fine with regards to their employment.

I'm saying this as a postsecondary counselor (what college counselors like to call ourselves now). College is not the only answer to what you want to do in life. For a long time it was shoved down people's throats as being the key to middle class stability, but those days are over with the increase in the cost of attendance across the nation. For some people, it's better that they don't waste their time in class; sometimes that means going into apprenticeship programs and I don't see these semi-pro leagues as being any different than that.

These kids will finish their high school diplomas (and honestly whatever program they have them complete is probably as rigorous as 80% of high schools out there since rigor at your average American high school is now a joke) and try their hand at pro ball. Some may never make it and have to switch careers, but that also happens to non-athletes.

TL;DR: This may change the landscape of college basketball, but will likely improve things for the student-athlete in the process. It's disingenuous to act like it won't or that anyone who doesn't end up with a college degree is totally screwed in life.
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Kids are identified as athletes at an early age and made to feel that they have what it takes to be a pro by adults that have selfish motives and then when the athlete doesn't make the pros, those same adults abandon them. Colleges all over the US use those athletes and don't worry about preparing them for life after their college career. So what happens to the athlete that doesn't make it in the pros and ends up with no academic preparation or job skills? I don't know what thousands of college students dropping out each year as to do with my comments. Athletes are given fluff courses to maintain a GPA or some schools have tutors write papers for the athletes. Ed Horton came back to Springfield and worked as a janitor in one of the high schools. Rennie Clemons never found an occupation. He should never have been admitted to any college. He didn't get any help.

As for you being a college counselor, so what? People in your position have been pushing athletes thru the system for years without giving them any real help. How many colleges reach out to former athletes to help them finish their degree after their eligibility? How many colleges want to help their former athletes adjust to life after their careers are over. As Simeon Rice used to say the only time he heard from the UofI was when Guenther would call to ask him to make a donation to the DIA.
 
#456      

BretMyBeachHouse

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BretMyBeachHouse
RJK01 said:
Kids are identified as athletes at an early age and made to feel that they have what it takes to be a pro by adults that have selfish motives and then when the athlete doesn't make the pros, those same adults abandon them. Colleges all over the US use those athletes and don't worry about preparing them for life after their college career. So what happens to the athlete that doesn't make it in the pros and ends up with no academic preparation or job skills? I don't know what thousands of college students dropping out each year as to do with my comments. Athletes are given fluff courses to maintain a GPA or some schools have tutors write papers for the athletes. Ed Horton came back to Springfield and worked as a janitor in one of the high schools. Rennie Clemons never found an occupation. He should never have been admitted to any college. He didn't get any help.

As for you being a college counselor, so what? People in your position have been pushing athletes thru the system for years without giving them any real help. How many colleges reach out to former athletes to help them finish their degree after their eligibility? How many colleges want to help their former athletes adjust to life after their careers are over. As Simeon Rice used to say the only time he heard from the UofI was when Guenther would call to ask him to make a donation to the DIA.
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So you think colleges are taking advantage of kids but you don't want those same kids to make money?

It's pretty simple. Be it college or the minor leagues or the lyric opera you take your best shot at what you love but always have a realistic plan when it doesn't work out.
 
#457      

RJK01

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RJK01
Joel Goodson said:
Right. The status quo in football and men's hoops is so inequitable that a blind man can see it.

WRT dreams being dashed and nothing to fall back on: the former is simply the nature of competitive sports. Not much room at the top of the pyramid. The latter is primarily one's own fault for not preparing for an alternate (and much more likely) path.
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When adults are telling teenagers they are going to be pros or that they are a one and done, how do you expect them to say "well, I need to have a backup plan"? Every basketball player that is deemed a 5* is solely focused on a pro career. Then you have adults that are giving players bad advice because they are looking at the athlete as a meal ticket. It's easy for me to realize I needed a plan for my future because I never had adults giving me bad advice and my athletic skills weren't going to get me a college scholarship, let alone a pro career. Colleges care about what an athlete can do for them while they are competing. Once that's over, colleges aren't interested unless the athlete has money that can be donated back to the school. To your point Kevin Gamble had a plan, but it required money that he made as a pro. Ed Horton became a school janitor. Iowa doesn't care about Horton. He can't help them win any games anymore.
 
#460      

RJK01

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RJK01
BretMyBeachHouse said:
So you think colleges are taking advantage of kids but you don't want those same kids to make money?

It's pretty simple. Be it college or the minor leagues or the lyric opera you take your best shot at what you love but always have a realistic plan when it doesn't work out.
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I never said I don't think they should make money. I'm concerned that they get so focused on being a pro and when their goal is not realized, what happens to them? Who is there to help them with a realistic plan?
 
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#463      

RJK01

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RJK01
IlliniTarHeel said:
So you think that going to college is the only choice to live a good life or be successsful. College is not that only choice if basketball doesn't work out.
That thought process is such Bullsh$t. There are many career paths don't require a degree that are very rewarding and lucrative.
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Where did I ever say that going to college was the only choice to live a good life? My concern is these teenagers are going to fail to achieve their goal and they won't have a fall back option. What's bull!!!! is that adults are only concerned with how much money can be made from the athlete's skill.
 
#465      

illini80

illini80
Forgottonia
illini80
DB11Headband said:
Has Ked ever thought we didn’t have a strong change with a prospective recruit?
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Gomez Addams Yes GIF by Morphin
 
#467      

IlliniKat91

IlliniKat91
Chicago, IL
IlliniKat91
RJK01 said:
Kids are identified as athletes at an early age and made to feel that they have what it takes to be a pro by adults that have selfish motives and then when the athlete doesn't make the pros, those same adults abandon them. Colleges all over the US use those athletes and don't worry about preparing them for life after their college career. So what happens to the athlete that doesn't make it in the pros and ends up with no academic preparation or job skills? I don't know what thousands of college students dropping out each year as to do with my comments. Athletes are given fluff courses to maintain a GPA or some schools have tutors write papers for the athletes. Ed Horton came back to Springfield and worked as a janitor in one of the high schools. Rennie Clemons never found an occupation. He should never have been admitted to any college. He didn't get any help.

As for you being a college counselor, so what? People in your position have been pushing athletes thru the system for years without giving them any real help. How many colleges reach out to former athletes to help them finish their degree after their eligibility? How many colleges want to help their former athletes adjust to life after their careers are over. As Simeon Rice used to say the only time he heard from the UofI was when Guenther would call to ask him to make a donation to the DIA.
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My point was that I have some actual expertise in this instead of just popping off at the mouth. You're also missing my entire point.

You initial post that I responded to asked if we cared about what happens to these athletes after the fact if this doesn't work out. No one wants to see these kids fail, but the fact is that a lot of people, not just athletes, don't do well in their desired career path. They end up finding success in other areas. To pretend this is something entirely unique to college sports is foolish.
 
#469      

BretMyBeachHouse

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BretMyBeachHouse
RJK01 said:
I never said I don't think they should make money. I'm concerned that they get so focused on being a pro and when their goal is not realized, what happens to them? Who is there to help them with a realistic plan?
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I don't know. There are literally millions kids that age. I'm not sure why anyone should be more concerned about gifted athletes who make a payday at 18 vs. those millions of others that didn't get the same opportunities.
 
#472      

grue2

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grue2
RJK01 said:
I never said I don't think they should make money. I'm concerned that they get so focused on being a pro and when their goal is not realized, what happens to them? Who is there to help them with a realistic plan?
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It sounds like the problem is the unrealistic expectations set by the kid (and family) and possibly pushed by the organization. These should be addressed from the outset. These kids were give opportunities unavailable to most. It was a benefit. The families, if no one else, should realize that few of the kids will ever make a living at it and prepare the kid. Kid, we will support you if you want to try. You need to understand that the most likely result at each step, is that you will be cut and you need to go back to a more normal life. Unless the programs are lying to the kids about their chances, this is on the parents and no one else. If the program is lying to the kids about their chances, that is a different problem.
 
#473      

nichi

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nichi
RJK01 said:
Horton came back to Springfield and worked as a janitor in one of the high schools. Rennie Clemons never found an occupation. He should never have been admitted to any college. He didn't get any help.

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How many colleges want to help their former athletes adjust to life after their careers are over. As Simeon Rice used to say the only time he heard from the UofI was when Guenther would call to ask him to make a donation to the DIA.
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Reaching out to check up on former students and help them adjust to adult life is not really a university's job. There are alumni and booster networks, but staying in touch is generally a twoway street.
 
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