Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
#251      
Seven times in my life time Illinois has won two or more games in the NCAA tournament. Twice with Bruce Douglas at point guard, twice with Frank Williams at point guard, twice with Deron Williams and/or Dee Brown at point guard.

The other one had a defensive small forward playing out of position at point guard. That team also had several guys who could handle the ball, including a slick passing point guard that came off the bench.

Having an elite point guard is not required for post season success, but it helps.
Only two of these occurred in the last 30 years.

What worked in the 1984 is a pretty poor blueprint for what's going to work in 2023.

I'll take an elite point guard of course, but it doesn't take more than looking at the rosters of the teams who have made deep tournament runs lately to see that it's not a requirement by any means.
 
#254      
Only two of these occurred in the last 30 years.

What worked in the 1984 is a pretty poor blueprint for what's going to work in 2023.

I'll take an elite point guard of course, but it doesn't take more than looking at the rosters of the teams who have made deep tournament runs lately to see that it's not a requirement by any means.
It doesn't take more than looking at our own team last year to see that we need a capable point guard.
 
#255      
Seven times in my lifetime Illinois has won two or more games in the NCAA tournament. Twice with Bruce Douglas at point guard, twice with Frank Williams at point guard, twice with Deron Williams and/or Dee Brown at point guard.

The other one had a defensive small forward playing out of position at point guard. That team also had several guys who could handle the ball, including a slick passing point guard that came off the bench.

Having an elite point guard is not required for post season success, but it helps.
And that team without a true starting point guard had a 6’-7” “center”, and yet, were one rebound away from playing in the NCAA finals.
 
#256      
Only two of these occurred in the last 30 years.

What worked in the 1984 is a pretty poor blueprint for what's going to work in 2023.

I'll take an elite point guard of course, but it doesn't take more than looking at the rosters of the teams who have made deep tournament runs lately to see that it's not a requirement by any means.
I believe I said it is not required, but helps.

The way I count, 4 of those are in the last 22 years.

1983-84 Bruce Douglas
1984-85 Bruce Douglas
1988-89 Bardo et al

2000-01 Frank Williams
2001-02 Frank Williams

2003-04 Deron & Dee
2004-05 Deron & Dee
 
#257      
I'm not up for trading anything, it'd just be nice to actually make a dent in the tournament that matters at some point, instead of a single impressive victory over a 16 seed, and escaping 13-seeded Chattanooga.

Theoretical exercise here, which result this upcoming season would look better for Brad moving forward?

1. The team shocks the B1G and wins the outright championship over Purdue and MSU, earning a 2 seed in the tourney, but falls to 7 seed Baylor in the second round of the NCAA tournament.
2. The team finishes 3rd in the B1G, earns a 4 seed in the tournament, but makes a surprise run to the Elite 8, knocking off #1 seed Tennessee in the process before falling to #2 Alabama in the regional final.
Those are both great seasons and obviosuly with getting a Big Ten Title everyone's gonna pick 2. Even without it that is an objectively great season. Let's change the hypothetical though. Instead of a respectable 3rd in the BIG and an elite eight that everyone would want lets go back to 22. If we lose to Iowa don't get the Big Ten title but we sneak past houston and lose in the sweet 16 is that a better season to you? Im taking the title
 
#258      
It doesn't take more than looking at our own team last year to see that we need a capable point guard.
I think Skyy would have been very capable had he stuck with it. I don't think it was an ability issue for Skyy. He likely will mature and be very very good. Thats kind of what sucks is he has the tools but not the maturity to stick with it when he was struggling. Next season we have Williams, it seems another but it doesn't mean DGL can't be reliable if given the opportunity. If he is great but if not this won't be like last season.
 
#259      
He shot 40% from threes- I don’t want him passing the ball! Agree he isn’t the PG

I actually think Ty can be the point-forward and initiate the offense- it would be a good role for him and having an entire offseason to prepare, he will be very good at it

A big part of the issue last year was Skyy leaving mid- season and the staff and players having to adjust on the fly with limited practices- really hard to do

I’m less worried about having a traditional PG if the team is together all offseason - Brad and staff can figure it out
The PG position is not just about initiating the offense, but about creating easy scoring opportunities for your scorers by breaking down defenses. This is the main reason we saw the major scoring droughts last year. Shooting percentages obviously go way up when you get better looks.
 
#260      
And that team without a true starting point guard had a 6’-7” “center”, and yet, were one rebound away from playing in the NCAA finals.
down to 35 in Torvik for some reason
 
#261      

KrushCow31

Former Krush Cow
Chicago, IL
I'm mostly annoyed that I had to watch a ton of frustratingly stagnant possessions last year because we didn't have a point guard. Everyone knew a lack of a PG was one of the main issues last year. Now here we are, and we still need a PG. Seems we put all our eggs in one basket, got played, and struck out. It's not a good look, idc what people say.

And now when I watch struggling offensive sets this upcoming season, I'm gonna get even more annoyed.
 
#262      
Not sure of the specifics of your guys' argument but if I may, I'm going to respectfully challenge your general line of thinking, NarrowJ.

I know a guy (well I know his wife) who was a huge Cubs fan and stat geek. He got some of his analysis in front of the Cubs organization and a few years later he had a World Series ring and was riding with Theo in the parade. He started out as a fan with a hobby.

There are also several examples of fans who start with personal blogs and become respected analysts over time.

If someone has enough time and passion, they can become pretty knowledgeable about a subject.

Brad Underwood has forgotten more about basketball than any of us will ever know. This is true. But fans, especially ones as passionate as ours, are certainly capable of analyzing a situation and providing a somewhat educated perspective. Especially, I would say, on the macro things. Sometimes I think a bit of a "can't see the forest for the trees" thing happens with players, coaches, and yes even insiders.
Not all of us.
 
#263      
The PG position is not just about initiating the offense, but about creating easy scoring opportunities for your scorers by breaking down defenses. This is the main reason we saw the major scoring droughts last year. Shooting percentages obviously go way up when you get better looks.
Agree. Skyy was too slow and could not get around anyone and was average vision and passer at best. Epps could beat his man off the dribble at times, but not a good passer. Neither could effectively use a ball screen.
 
#264      
I'm mostly annoyed that I had to watch a ton of frustratingly stagnant possessions last year because we didn't have a point guard. Everyone knew a lack of a PG was one of the main issues last year. Now here we are, and we still need a PG. Seems we put all our eggs in one basket, got played, and struck out. It's not a good look, idc what people say.

And now when I watch struggling offensive sets this upcoming season, I'm gonna get even more annoyed.
If Williams is healthy we will improve. My only worry if we do not get someone else. Otherwise you use some combination of Harmon and Rodgers and DGL if he can't go.
 
#265      
The PG position is not just about initiating the offense, but about creating easy scoring opportunities for your scorers by breaking down defenses. This is the main reason we saw the major scoring droughts last year. Shooting percentages obviously go way up when you get better looks.
That is also one thing Shannon needs to do to be a first round pick. Being able to pass the ball to the open man is important for him and everyone on our squad, not just the PG. Overall our squad lacked good passing.. It is one thing Hawkins did very well at times inspite of some turnovers, he limited those as the year went on. Hawk got better at passing the rock. But your right we need a PG that can get assist. We also need that from Shannon, Domask, Ty, Quincy and others besides h
Hawkins. BU has added some guys that are good passers. We did not have enough assist last year for sure. BU is aware and that won't happen again.
 
#267      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
I think Skyy would have been very capable had he stuck with it. I don't think it was an ability issue for Skyy. He likely will mature and be very very good. Thats kind of what sucks is he has the tools but not the maturity to stick with it when he was struggling. Next season we have Williams, it seems another but it doesn't mean DGL can't be reliable if given the opportunity. If he is great but if not this won't be like last season.
299bb290162664a13940d164d90d8953--communion-chris-delia.jpg


Last time I looked I saw no " D " in Skyy Clark...........................Just sayin ................................I really really am......................
 
#268      
IMO, the NCAA tournament is overrated. The team that wins isn't necessarily the best in the country that year. They just won the tournament. That's why they call them Cinderella!
 
#269      
That is also one thing Shannon needs to do to be a first round pick. Being able to pass the ball to the open man is important for him and everyone on our squad, not just the PG. Overall our squad lacked good passing.. It is one thing Hawkins did very well at times inspite of some turnovers, he limited those as the year went on. Hawk got better at passing the rock. But your right we need a PG that can get assist. We also need that from Shannon, Domask, Ty, Quincy and others besides h
Hawkins. BU has added some guys that are good passers. We did not have enough assist last year for sure. BU is aware and that won't happen again.
Definitely agree. This is why getting a PG who is a natural distributor was so important going into next year. Hope Williams can fill that role, but having a hard time feeling overly optimistic about a guy coming off an injury like that.
 
#270      
IMO, the NCAA tournament is overrated. The team that wins isn't necessarily the best in the country that year. They just won the tournament. That's why they call them Cinderella!
No… they call a team that wasn’t expected to go to the tourney and surprisingly makes it as a huge underdog Cinderella, as in “Cinderella’s going to the dance.” It’s also why the NCAA tournament is called “the dance,” and we can thank Dick Vitale for both of those terms.
 
#271      
Reeves averaged 1 assist last year. If that’s the starting PG next year, that’s not ideal. It’s still a really talented team, but still no true PG unless DGL surprises us. Reeves is a good 3 point shooter though.
Also, IIRC, before Reeves went to Kentucky and was brought up as a potential Illini target, didn't one of our insiders say that Underwood wasn't interested because Reeves couldn't play defense? In essence, he'd give up more points than he would score.

Maybe I'm misremembering though.
 
Last edited:
#272      

Illini2010-11

Sugar Grove
IMO, the NCAA tournament is overrated. The team that wins isn't necessarily the best in the country that year. They just won the tournament. That's why they call them Cinderella!
This is true of any single elimination tournament.

Were the 13-6 New York Giants better than the 18-0 New England Patriots in 2007-2008? Of course not, but they were the champs.

Nobody generally remembers regular seasons many years down the road, only the team that won the playoff tournament. So in no way is the NCAA tournament overrated. There is a reason why coaches try to make the team better come March by sacrificing some early season games...because the tournament does matter.
 
#273      
It doesn't take more than looking at our own team last year to see that we need a capable point guard.
Nah, I had a ton of problems with our team's chemistry last year that weren't at all related to having a point guard. I think fixing those problems is going to go quite a bit further than a "pure point guard" would. No guarantee they're fixed, obviously, but having the team dislike each other and not be working towards the same goals was easily the biggest issue I saw with last year's team. It led to multiple guys trying to get theirs, jacking shots, etc. - no point guard was going to stop Matthew Mayer from jacking up 8 threes a game and making less than 20% of them the last 6 games of the year.


As I mentioned yesterday, a year ago today nobody was suggesting we didn't have a point guard, because we had a top point guard committed. We still didn't have a point guard. Having a top guy committed at the position didn't solve the problem.

We can win with Jeremiah Williams at point guard, I have no doubt. That's not a promise that we will, but three of the four Final Four teams last year were playing without a guy getting as many assists as he has each of his two years. It's obviously not a requirement like some people are pretending it is to have some elite "pure point guard" to win in the NCAA tournament.
 
#275      
No… they call a team that wasn’t expected to go to the tourney and surprisingly makes it as a huge underdog Cinderella, as in “Cinderella’s going to the dance.” It’s also why the NCAA tournament is called “the dance,” and we can thank Dick Vitale for both of those terms.
Although correct, the name/term stays with them the entire time. Villanova/Georgetown to name one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.