Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[RichardKeenesCousin]

As long as it’s the University of Illinois Fighting Illini, I will watch. I don’t watch minor league baseball or football, mostly because I never have and it’s never interested me. But college football and basketball does interest me. Paid athletes would change a few thing up, to be sure… but it’s still my team vs teams I root against.

For the first 20 years or so of college basketball, the coach was also a student. Somewhere along the line it was decided that job should be a paid professional position. If you stop and think about it, why should the players be any different from the coaches?

I don't live my life that way. I wont start now

 

[BuckDitkis]

 

[MDchicago]

A couple things:

There is a clear positive correlation between success and % of minutes returning. So ideally we need to figure out how to get better at recruiting, developing, and retaining younger players vs shopping for 1 year guys in the portal.

View attachment 26845
Last year, we were basically tied with OSU for last in the B1G in minutes returning with about 16%. This year, we return almost 60% so I do think we have a pretty decent floor. But then the following year, assuming we have at least one transfer out, we slip back to probably the 30-40% range.

WRT transfers, it's been said over and over, "Everyone is going through it right now." True. Everyone is going through it, but not everyone is going through it equally. I did the math recently and if I remember correctly, only IU and MN have had more transfers out in the portal era.

Net net, in terms of talent retention, we have room for improvement and as the NCAA loosens player movement restrictions, retention will become even more critical.

I'm not at all confident the bolded language above will be borne out in an era with penalty free-transfers.

While experience playing within a system is of course a positive factor, it can be outweighed by other factors like greater talent, physical maturity and playing experience, and the portal with provides the means to make those upgrades. Pretty radical shift from CBB history, but I believe that teams that recognize and take advantage of the opportunity to upgrade their roster and plug holes via the portal will have an advantage over time over those who do not.

To do otherwise is akin to a MLB team choosing to rely only or primarily on their own draft picks/farm system, while competing against teams willing to spend more freely in free agency and make strategic trades of players they drafted when they see an opportunity to improve the team. Both have a chance to win, but one approach will win more often over time.

E.g., Kansas lost 10 scholarship players after last season (8 portal transfers out plus 2 early entry draft picks).
- 8 transfers out will be playing for Boise State, UC Santa Barbara, East Carolina, Washington State, St. John’s, NC State, Syracuse, and TCU next year;
- After working the portal for a couple months, they are now ranked #1 in ESPN's too-early pre-season rankings for next year, older (3rd oldest roster out of ESPN's top 25 (Link ), with an average age of 22.6 as of next March), more experienced and better positioned to be a title contender than they would have been had they rolled forward with their pre-existing roster that had more experience within their system.

 

[AttentionDeficit]

Boy....this used to be an enjoyable part of my day. Was always concerned that using the ignore button would cause me to miss something of substance. Anyone care to educate me on how to use it?

Also worth noting - If you've ignored someone and they do manage to say something of substance, someone you have not ignored is likely to reply to it. You will see the reply and be given the option to see the ignored comment that was replied to.

It's a great feeling to see the lock GIFs and wonder why, then realize you are missing both sides of the toxic conversation with your well deployed ignore list.

 

[Ga65]

After watching video on Harmon believe he is a very serviceable point guard for this roster. Handles the ball, can drive and shoot, and plays defense. Not great at anything but a team player who doesn’t need the ball. Certainly a step up from Epps as appears to be “team first” guy. Don’t need a star just a cog. We will get scoring from TJ, Domask, Dain, Luke and others. Need a guy to start the offense, not be the offense. If Ty isn’t great we are not in trouble imo.

 

[pruman91]

Also worth noting - If you've ignored someone and they do manage to say something of substance, someone you have not ignored is likely to reply to it. You will see the reply and be given the option to see the ignored comment that was replied to.

It's a great feeling to see the lock GIFs and wonder why, then realize you are missing both sides of the toxic conversation with your well deployed ignore list.

great post Att............................then scroll to the bottom of a thread and you will see ignored content that if you click on it , it will open up all the ignored posts you have for that page..........

I love being able to decide for myself what I want to read...............................I really really do....................

I love it too........................I really really do......................

me too.......................

Thank you pru........................my hard drive appreciates you..............It really really does................

 

[HensonHall71]

I'm not at all confident the bolded language above will be borne out in an era with penalty free-transfers.

While experience playing within a system is of course a positive factor, it can be outweighed by other factors like greater talent, physical maturity and playing experience, and the portal with provides the means to make those upgrades. Pretty radical shift from CBB history, but I believe that teams that recognize and take advantage of the opportunity to upgrade their roster and plug holes via the portal will have an advantage over time over those who do not.

To do otherwise is akin to a MLB team choosing to rely only or primarily on their own draft picks/farm system, while competing against teams willing to spend more freely in free agency and make strategic trades of players they drafted when they see an opportunity to improve the team. Both have a chance to win, but one approach will win more often over time.

E.g., Kansas lost 10 scholarship players after last season (8 portal transfers out plus 2 early entry draft picks).
- 8 transfers out will be playing for Boise State, UC Santa Barbara, East Carolina, Washington State, St. John’s, NC State, Syracuse, and TCU next year;
- After working the portal for a couple months, they are now ranked #1 in ESPN's too-early pre-season rankings for next year, older (3rd oldest roster out of ESPN's top 25 (Link ), with an average age of 22.6 as of next March), more experienced and better positioned to be a title contender than they would have been had they rolled forward with their pre-existing roster that had more experience within their system.

Let's see how it plays out for Kansas this year - the issue is, basketball (much more than baseball) is a sport that requires teamwork, players playing their role, a well coordinated offensive system and defense where everyone is on the same page - which requires a lot of practice time and time playing together.

Even in the NBA- "dream teams" of 3 great Free Agent players joining the same team requires time to gel before they are good. In college with limited practice time it likely takes even longer. Our team last year - while we were a far cry from a "dream team" - saw that first hand with a lot of roster turnover with older talented players thrown together and didn't materialize in just one season.

 

[21ChampaignSt]

I'm not at all confident the bolded language above will be borne out in an era with penalty free-transfers.

While experience playing within a system is of course a positive factor, it can be outweighed by other factors like greater talent, physical maturity and playing experience, and the portal with provides the means to make those upgrades. Pretty radical shift from CBB history, but I believe that teams that recognize and take advantage of the opportunity to upgrade their roster and plug holes via the portal will have an advantage over time over those who do not.

To do otherwise is akin to a MLB team choosing to rely only or primarily on their own draft picks/farm system, while competing against teams willing to spend more freely in free agency and make strategic trades of players they drafted when they see an opportunity to improve the team. Both have a chance to win, but one approach will win more often over time.

E.g., Kansas lost 10 scholarship players after last season (8 portal transfers out plus 2 early entry draft picks).
- 8 transfers out will be playing for Boise State, UC Santa Barbara, East Carolina, Washington State, St. John’s, NC State, Syracuse, and TCU next year;
- After working the portal for a couple months, they are now ranked #1 in ESPN's too-early pre-season rankings for next year, older (3rd oldest roster out of ESPN's top 25 (Link ), with an average age of 22.6 as of next March), more experienced and better positioned to be a title contender than they would have been had they rolled forward with their pre-existing roster that had more experience within their system.

Yeah, it's always been the case that getting the best talent, regardless of experience, gives you a chance to be great. I suspect the data points in the upper left quadrant of the graph I shared are teams who brought in an elite class of freshman. So, I agree, talent can trump experience. If we can attract the level of talent that Kansas does every year, I'll change my outlook.

I also agree that the best use of the portal is to plug roster holes, but relative to the competition, I think we need to do better at reducing those holes that need filled.

Where I disagree is the MLB comp. Team chemistry barely matters in the MLB. IMO, NBA or even NFL is a better comp where success is typically sustained through the draft. Even the most talented assemblages of hired hands need time to jell - see the 2011 Miami Heat.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out for sure, but I'm still of the belief that returning minutes will continue to be one of, if not the strongest predictor of season over season improvement.

 

[TheGMan]

I have two different takes

- I am all for student athletes making money for institutions and conference making money off of them

- I hate the current NIL dominated recruitment and transfer system

I agree. But I also don't think that these are necessarily contradictory. The current system is not perfect, and needs to be addressed somehow. I'm not sure how to fix it, but luckily I don't have to.

However, I also think that the current system is a vast improvement over the players not getting paid anything and being taken advantage of.

 

[LadyLoyalty]

I always heard that there are 2 things that you don't want to see how they are made......bills in congress and whole hog sausage....maybe I should add a third

I realize we live in an age of conspiracy theories and disinformation, but some people have a completely outlandish, false idea of “boosters”. There was no controlling past or present coaches or their recruiting decisions. We were invited to special events, meet and greets, given facility tours and received good seats. I’m sure some shared their views with different coaches over the years but there was/is no power to control decisions of a college sports program. We never gave lavish gifts to players as some claim, at least not at Illinois. It was forbidden. We were mostly appreciated for helping to upgrade and build facilities like Ubben (you’re welcome). Some of us donated before major revenue sources and TV contracts existed, so no longer feel it’s needed now. Some of us don’t agree with NIL and felt a world class education was payment enough. Deal with it.

 

[madillini4]

Then why is everyone so mad at Brad and not wanting to donate to basketball anymore?

$ee $ky Clark

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

I realize we live in an age of conspiracy theories and disinformation, but some people have a completely outlandish, false idea of “boosters”. There was no controlling past or present coaches or their recruiting decisions. We were invited to special events, meet and greets, given facility tours and received good seats. I’m sure some shared their views with different coaches over the years but there was/is no power to control decisions of a college sports program. We never gave lavish gifts to players as some claim, at least not at Illinois. It was forbidden. We were mostly appreciated for helping to upgrade and build facilities like Ubben (you’re welcome). Some of us donated before major revenue sources and TV contracts existed, so no longer feel it’s needed now. Some of us don’t agree with NIL and felt a world class education was payment enough. Deal with it.

Man, just when I was ready to compliment you for the the thoughtful, rational and well-reasoned post, you tacked on that petulant “deal with it” at the end.

My original comment about the entitled babies was directed at that current booster who was lamenting about how he gives so much money but Brad’s too stubborn to take his advice. Now maybe the advice was good, maybe the advice was bad. Hard to say really. But either way, this person appears to think that his donation buys him the right to run his fingers through the basketball pie — and in this modern NIL world it probably does to a large extent. But that person came across as absurdly entitled when he or she is not the one dealing with the daily structure of organizing and guiding a major college basketball squad.

 

[Eternal Optimist]

Also agree with this take …

You just don’t see coaches quitting halfway through the year … After the season is over and they leave ? Oh well … Players can do that now too and if you want to transfer if your coach leaves then I’m all for it …

But the enabling quitting mid semester AKA Skyy ? I really struggle with what message that sends to our youth if the answer to anything hard in life is just to quit … But hey that’s just this old guys 2 cents …

Good thing everyone is going to the NBA, so this education stuff doesn’t really matter…. Oh wait.

 

[Old Farm Illini]

Good thing everyone is going to the NBA, so this education stuff doesn’t really matter…. Oh wait.

How much education do you really need to work at Enterprise though?

 

[IllinoisIntegrity]

Lol yes. I'm totally guilt of mansplaining on a faceless message board where I have no clue what anyone's gender is.

I'm sorry you yearn for the days where you bought players with cars and duffle bags full of cash instead of NIL. The only difference is now everything is out in the open.

Do you know a lot of guys who would go by the moniker “Lady Loyalty”? Asking for a friend.

 

[IllinoisIntegrity]

I realize we live in an age of conspiracy theories and disinformation, but some people have a completely outlandish, false idea of “boosters”. There was no controlling past or present coaches or their recruiting decisions. We were invited to special events, meet and greets, given facility tours and received good seats. I’m sure some shared their views with different coaches over the years but there was/is no power to control decisions of a college sports program. We never gave lavish gifts to players as some claim, at least not at Illinois. It was forbidden. We were mostly appreciated for helping to upgrade and build facilities like Ubben (you’re welcome). Some of us donated before major revenue sources and TV contracts existed, so no longer feel it’s needed now. Some of us don’t agree with NIL and felt a world class education was payment enough. Deal with it.

Lady Loyalty, I salute you.

 

[goillini316]

Happy to explain.

1. After determining you won't miss anything worth missing by a specific poster (and there's many of them on this board), click on the poster's ID/handle
2. A second window/screen will appear containing several options, among them 'Ignore'
3. Click on that link them refresh your screen.

You can reverse the process at any time

Thank you

 

[goillini316]

Also worth noting - If you've ignored someone and they do manage to say something of substance, someone you have not ignored is likely to reply to it. You will see the reply and be given the option to see the ignored comment that was replied to.

It's a great feeling to see the lock GIFs and wonder why, then realize you are missing both sides of the toxic conversation with your well deployed ignore list.

Thank you

 

[PepeSilvia]

Do you know a lot of guys who would go by the moniker “Lady Loyalty”? Asking for a friend.

I know a lot of guys that do a lot of weird stuff online.

 

[21ChampaignSt]

I know a lot of guys that do a lot of weird stuff online.

This might say more about you than you intended it to

 

[doowink]

I realize we live in an age of conspiracy theories and disinformation, but some people have a completely outlandish, false idea of “boosters”. There was no controlling past or present coaches or their recruiting decisions. We were invited to special events, meet and greets, given facility tours and received good seats. I’m sure some shared their views with different coaches over the years but there was/is no power to control decisions of a college sports program. We never gave lavish gifts to players as some claim, at least not at Illinois. It was forbidden. We were mostly appreciated for helping to upgrade and build facilities like Ubben (you’re welcome). Some of us donated before major revenue sources and TV contracts existed, so no longer feel it’s needed now. Some of us don’t agree with NIL and felt a world class education was payment enough. Deal with it.

I agree with everything you're saying here....I really do....and Im sure you and many other donors participated exactly as you've described (probably before the ncaa tournament and college basketball took off in the mid-late 60's with TV $$ getting involved) ....and I doubt that boosters got involved in the day to day operations of football or basketball programs....but the statement that I've bolded certainly happened at major universities within their football and basketball programs ....may not have been many donors that did this....and it may have been done through back channels that were difficult to track or prove.....but I guarantee you it happened....to say that it didn't, just isn't being realistic

 

[Kendall Gill’s Uncle]

Lol yes. I'm totally guilt of mansplaining on a faceless message board where I have no clue what anyone's gender is.

I'm sorry you yearn for the days where you bought players with cars and duffle bags full of cash instead of NIL. The only difference is now everything is out in the open.

Her username literally says Lady in it. The odds are pretty high on the gender.

 

[MDchicago]

Yeah, it's always been the case that getting the best talent, regardless of experience, gives you a chance to be great. I suspect the data points in the upper left quadrant of the graph I shared are teams who brought in an elite class of freshman. So, I agree, talent can trump experience. If we can attract the level of talent that Kansas does every year, I'll change my outlook.

I also agree that the best use of the portal is to plug roster holes, but relative to the competition, I think we need to do better at reducing those holes that need filled.

Where I disagree is the MLB comp. Team chemistry barely matters in the MLB. IMO, NBA or even NFL is a better comp where success is typically sustained through the draft. Even the most talented assemblages of hired hands need time to jell - see the 2011 Miami Heat.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out for sure, but I'm still of the belief that returning minutes will continue to be one of, if not the strongest predictor of season over season improvement.

Agree that it will be interesting to see how it all plays out and recognize that a loaded roster is no guarantee of success, but do think that loaded teams and teams that work the portal to upgrade their roster will win more than their share over time.

Going into this year's tournament, the last 20 NCAA champs returned an average of 67% of the minutes played the previous season and none of those 20 champs returned less than 44% of the minutes played the previous year.

This year, UConn won the title while returning only 34% of the minutes played the prior season, less than any of the preceding 20 champs (likely more - I stopped looking) and about half of the historical average level. I suspect that was not a random occurrence, considering that UConn had 4 first year transfer players (with a combined 11 years of CBB playing experience) among their 9 player rotation that averaged double figure minutes and the proximity to the April 2021 rule changes, but we shall see...

 

[LadyLoyalty]

great post Att............................then scroll to the bottom of a thread and you will see ignored content that if you click on it , it will open up all the ignored posts you have for that page..........

I love being able to decide for myself what I want to read...............................I really really do....................

View attachment 26891

I love it too........................I really really do......................

View attachment 26892

me too.......................

View attachment 26893

Thank you pru........................my hard drive appreciates you..............It really really does................

I have asked this poster and the moderator repeatedly to please stop the unnecessary and over sexualized posts of women on this college recruiting website. It only enforces the toxic male culture that makes female fans feel uncomfortable and objectified on Loyalty. So, if you can’t beat them… let’s see how these fly. Unnecessary? Absolutely. Inappropriate? You bet. I’ll also be curious to see how fast these/I get banned versus the female photos left alone. Be better.

 

[JJE]

If you live in the metro east this is an event to keep your eye on. Wouldn't surprise me if the next couple years this event blows up.

OPINION: NCAA Live event at EHS exciting, rising

It’s not a stretch to say this event could reach the heights of the prestigious...

www.thetelegraph.com