Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
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skyIdub
Winged Warrior
What a riveting story. Now tell me which highly paid coaches are not looking at 150-200 ranked players.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
I don't see any anger. To me it's just dumb.
The Sleepers guys are usually pretty complimentary to our program and coaching staff. I don't recall their credibility being questioned last year when they picked us to win the conference or when they called Champaign the best B1G road trip they've experienced or when they came up with the Daddy Brad moniker. And I do think one of them played low level college ball.
I'm not like a huge fan of theirs or anything, but the lack of consistency with people's takes on here is wild sometimes.
About half of our roster is always going to be players outside the RSCI top 100. The odds of Jase becoming all conference or an NBA player are lower than they are for players in the top 100. But that doesn't mean he's not a take.
I'm not like a huge fan of theirs or anything, but the lack of consistency with people's takes on here is wild sometimes.
About half of our roster is always going to be players outside the RSCI top 100. The odds of Jase becoming all conference or an NBA player are lower than they are for players in the top 100. But that doesn't mean he's not a take.
Some of these posts about Sleepers are disingenuous. Nobody has been harder on Michigan than these guys - an objective fan, imagine that. Elliot(the Michigan fan) roasts Juwan on a daily basis and even does in this segment saying "Juwan can't sign anybody". Being a fan doesnt mean you cant be critical and always have to spin everything in a positive manner.
Furthermore, they have been incredibly complimentary of the program and Brad. So much so that they call him "Daddy Brad". They took a trip to Champaign and called it their favorite college experience and say we have the best fans. They ever hung out with Tyler Underwood on the trip.
So if you were a neutral podcaster that followed recruiting and say Bill Self landed the last 4 kids in a row outside the top 100, you would be complimentary of the recent hauls? Or would you say "maybe something is slipping".
Outside of the orange tinted echo chamber, neutral and national guys don't feel great about this pickup. A top 10 paid coach at a top 15ish all-time program picks up a kid with no high major offers outside of the top 100 - what to do you want them to say, "this is amazing?!"
Absolutely. Juwan deserves it. His on-court results and the physical altercation: can only be observed as anywhere from 'not good' to 'terrible'.
Also much deserved. Brad's been kicking their butts.
Gee, I'm not sure. Self pulled in these recruiting classes leading up to the 2022 National Championship team:
2019 - #55, #102, #145, #163, #189 & a zero star transfer (so only 1 player that's even usable according to your logic)
2020 - #2, #20, #194, #238 (so 2 usable players by your logic, note that the #2 recruit now plays for Grand Canyon University and the #20 player never played and transferred to OK State)
2021 - #73, #85, #94, #109 (so 3 usable players, however #73 has averaged 1.4 ppg, #94 has averaged 2.2 ppg, #109 transferred to Syracuse and to date has never scored a single point in an NCAA game.
So you tell me if their recruiting was slipping? It seems like he then won the National Title in 2022 with the #163 & #189 guys as his two best players & leading scorers.
Nobody is expecting anyone to think its amazing. That's your own strawman argument at work.
Carter Elliot is a MSU stan. It’s Greg Waddell that is the UM fanboy.
I never said that you can't win with lower rated recruits, although we haven't seen Illinois do it in the modern era. I'm saying its more probable that you win if you have higher rated talent. Of course you can cherry-pick and find exceptions to the rule, much like anything else in life. Much of the "rating don't matter that much" is a lot of Weber-era cope and look how that turned out. Look at Bruce with top 100 kids vs without. He goes from NCAA runner-up to missing the tournament multiple years in a row. It has always mattered at Illinois. All of our great teams in Illinois have had a tons of highly rated recruits. I don't know if the 2004-2005 team had all but 1 or 2 kids outside the top 100 and they were beat by a team that was absolutely star studded. The same could be said of the Flyin' Illini.
You mentioned that you need these project picks in all recruiting classes. Our last 3 commits were Nico, Jason, and Jace. Is that enough projects? Do we need more? At what point will you start to be disappointed?
Furthermore, a lot of people says there isnt a big difference between a kid ranked 50 and a kid ranked 150. Luckily Rivals crunched the math for us and here's the results for odds of kids getting drafted.
About 1 in 7 for 4 stars
About 1 in 15 for 3 stars inside top-150 (not sure how many of these there are each year since 4 stars usually go pretty deep in the top 100)
About 1 in 60 for remaining 3 stars
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agree with skyldub
Except fat Dwill was a top 50 recruit with multiple high major offers.
Where are you getting your data from?
From what I see on Sports Reference, Self has had fewer than 6 top 100 players on his roster exactly one time. He had 5 on the 2020-21 team that went 21-9.
He's coached 39 future NBA players while at Kansas and only 2 of them have come from outside the top 100.
Landing highly rated, highly talented kids is a big part of Self's strategy and something at which he's consistently excelled.
Edit: I see, you're talking about single classes not rosters as a whole. I'm not even sure what the debate is, but yeah, Self rakes in top talent with regularity.
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skyIdub
Winged Warrior
lol, ok fine. See: BeanPole Trent Frazier.
Sorry. My question is about next year. TJ, Harmon and Coleman gone. That leaves TY and DGL for next year. No current 2024 signing is a point guard.
Haha
fine, Trent was a dog.
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Recent Gatorade POY for state of Maryland:
Hansberry (2022-23)
Cam Whitmore (2021-22)
Jordan Hawkins (2020-21)
Hunter Dickinson (2019-20)
Justin Moore (2018-19)
(please basketball gods let this trend continue)
Hansberry (2022-23)
Cam Whitmore (2021-22)
Jordan Hawkins (2020-21)
Hunter Dickinson (2019-20)
Justin Moore (2018-19)
(please basketball gods let this trend continue)Taken directly from 247.com's website.
6 top 100 players is less than half of the roster. Not a big hurdle to get over there. We have that many or more every year ourselves.
Self is a phenomenal coach. Hall of Fame. That has zero to do with the point I was making, though.
For the record, I find the framing and overreactions on both sides of this to be equally hilarious.
I didn't cherry pick anything. You were the one that provided me the example, I merely examined it.
Eh, in the same time frame, we've had 13 season with fewer than 6 top 100 guys on the roster. This will be our 3rd straight year with at least 6 though.
Yeah, I was referring to recent years. Obviously the last few years of Weber, entire Groce tenure, and the couple years with whatever Brad inherited was not good. We're all fully aware of that.
3rd straight year is a good, positive trend imo. Far from the 'sky is falling' stuff that I was saying makes me chuckle.
Exactly who is angry about obscure, uninformed goofs? They are not even a minor annoyance.
Piper doesn't have anything to do with recruiting rankings
What team in the B1G contends for a title every year, makes at least the second round of the tourney every year, and sprinkles in sweet 16 runs?
Top 4 conf. finishes last 10 years - Purdue (8), WIsconsin (7), Michigan (5), MSU (5), Illinois (3), Maryland (3), Iowa (3), Nebraska (2), Ohio State (2), Indiana (1), NW (1), Minn. (1), Rutgers (1). So maybe Purdue and Wisconsin could be said to approximate competing for conference championship every year though Wisconsin finished 11th last year.
Of those two, Wisconsin and closest record to meeting the tourney qualifications (though I looked at last 11 years since no tourney in 2020)- 8 tourneys, 6 second games, 4 sweet 16s in last 10 years. Purdue has 8 tourneys, 4 second games and 4 sweet 16s.
Not surprisingly MSU has the better tourney record. MSU has 9 tourneys, 7 second games and 4 sweet 16s. But surprisingly - Michigan has the best toruney record in that period by far - 8 tourneys, 8 second games, 7 sweet 16s (also made 5 elite 8s and on to 2 final fours in those 5 games).
So bottom line is no one in the B1G meets these expectations.
People need to keep their expectations in line - if you compete for conference championship half the time, and make the tourney 80% of the time, get 2 games 60% of the time and make a sweet 16 40%, that is being one of the elite teams in the B1G.
Joel Goodson
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I looked at some videos of Jase Butler, so I am now an expert too. /s.
What can you tell from highlight videos? He looks young. I bet his growth plates are open. He is also all arms and legs. Looks taller than 6-4. Probably has a plus wingspan. Appear to have good hands. Not a run and jump athlete, but he can use his length to dunk.
Skill wise, he looks fundamentally sound. Solid handle. Sees the court well. Cant tell how well he shoots. I'd like to see him play defense instead of just offensive highlights. I expect he'll be a good defender. I am thinking more of a left handed Bardo than Gill for a comparison.
What can you tell from highlight videos? He looks young. I bet his growth plates are open.
He is also all arms and legs. Looks taller than 6-4. Probably has a plus wingspan. Appear to have good hands. Not a run and jump athlete, but he can use his length to dunk. Skill wise, he looks fundamentally sound. Solid handle. Sees the court well. Cant tell how well he shoots. I'd like to see him play defense instead of just offensive highlights. I expect he'll be a good defender. I am thinking more of a left handed Bardo than Gill for a comparison.
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