Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#326      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
Sedino said:
He weighed 205.

Also was absolutely not faster. Jump higher? Maybe.

I get you old heads want to think that bAcK iN YoUr dAy the players could have kept up, but they simply could not have. You can watch highlights from every era and watch as the players become faster, stronger, and overall more athletic. The same will happen 10 years from now to people playing now, and then 10 years after that to people playing then. The growth of technology and science backed workout/recovery programs will continue to push the peak of human athleticism higher and higher.
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dolph lundgren punch GIF by Rocky

I think you’re basically right, Sedino. Overall, at least I think you’re right.
But I had a few thoughts:

(I realize a fair amount of this isn’t about BEST ATHLETE exactly…)
1.) If we WERE basing things solely on Combine results…Kevin Durant wouldn’t be in the NBA
2.) Athletic doesn’t necessarily equal Good/Great Player…let alone best teams. Just saying…& with all these supposed great athletes being made in laboratories 🧪 lol…year after year…you would think teams would actually be better. Is Last years UCONN or FAU better the ‘79 Spartans or the ‘76 Hoosiers…or a ga-zillion others from the 80s or 90s? Sure, I’m a biased Gen-Xer…but I kinda doubt it..


I’m not sure how much you can tell by merely looking at highlights from every eras…just not the same. But hey, I get it…it’s subjective and part of the fun.

At least, you went with “old heads” and not “neckbeard” (Cracks me up everytime…I’m gonna go shave my neckbeard now.
 
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#327      

TheGMan

TheGMan
TheGMan
skyIdub said:
If that were so, every athletic record would be broken in recent history. Which is not the case.
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Not taking a stance in this argument. This just piqued my curiosity so wanted to look it up. Obviously track and field is not the end all be all of athletic records, but at least according to this Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics), the oldest standing world record in track and field is from 1986.

So I guess it depends on what is considered "recent history."
 
#328      

Heisenbobble

Heisenbobble
Heisenbobble
Sedino said:
That’s awesome that they made you say that. But no, I am not wrong. You are objectively wrong my man.

Every single stat you can think of shows that kids going into the NBA and playing in college today are significantly faster, quicker, stronger, and can jump higher than kids even 10-15 years ago and DEFINITELY more than kids 20-30 years ago. That is the objective truth. Don’t believe me, google is free.

Relative to who they were playing at the time, sure maybe more athletic. In a straight up comparison 1 on 1 to TSJ, no. Maybe because the people they were playing were so unathletic compared to kids today, they LOOKED more athletic but that’s about it.
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"Objectively" Bwahahahahaha!!!!
Cary Elwes Disney Plus GIF by Disney+
 
#333      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
ties will be resolved
Joel Goodson
#335      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
TheGMan said:
Not taking a stance in this argument. This just piqued my curiosity so wanted to look it up. Obviously track and field is not the end all be all of athletic records, but at least according to this Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics), the oldest standing world record in track and field is from 1986.

So I guess it depends on what is considered "recent history."
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Yep, which...to Sedino's point...reflects an accurate increase in the science of nutrition and training. So on a large scale it's true...but to simply say "this individual is more athletic" or "the most athletic" in our history because of that modern advantage is not accurate.

To be more specific....TSJ is not even close to the leaper that Battle and Randle were. He might be faster. He's not stronger than Nick Anderson or Battle. He's not as quick as Gill. So all of those measurables have to be taken individually.

Now to argue that those players would not fare better than TSJ in the modern NBA combine is also a fools errand. There's really not an accurate way to quantify or prove it now.

All that to say that TSJ is indeed an amazing athlete...but he's not the most athletic basketball player in Illinois' history. He would lose a dunk contest to Battle and Randle 10 out of 10 times.

Edit: lol I forgot this was the Recruiting thread.
 
#337      

dbeverly26

dbeverly26
dbeverly26
skyIdub said:
Yep, which...to Sedino's point...reflects an accurate increase in the science of nutrition and training. So on a large scale it's true...but to simply say "this individual is more athletic" or "the most athletic" in our history because of that modern advantage is not accurate.

To be more specific....TSJ is not even close to the leaper that Battle and Randle were. He might be faster. He's not stronger than Nick Anderson or Battle. He's not as quick as Gill. So all of those measurables have to be taken individually.

Now to argue that those players would not fare better than TSJ in the modern NBA combine is also a fools errand. There's really not an accurate way to quantify or prove it now.

All that to say that TSJ is indeed an amazing athlete...but he's not the most athletic basketball player in Illinois' history. He would lose a dunk contest to Battle and Randle 10 out of 10 times.

Edit: lol I forgot this was the Recruiting thread.
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So what are we trying to do here, suss out which Illinois players have or had the best god-given athletic abilities and would be the best athletes given today's knowledge, facilities, and techniques? Or are we just interested in the best athletes, period?

If it's the former, we'll never know, and honestly the question is only worth asking if your motivation is to boost the whole 'things were better back then' point of view that people of a certain age can't resist. If it's the latter, there's a mountain of objective and anecdotal evidence that points to players being more athletic than ever. If you want to look at, say, the NFL or NBA from 40 years ago there are a small handful of all-time greats who could step on the field and play today's game. Everyone else wouldn't make it past the first week of camp.

(To get out in front of this, I'm 50 and my first Illinois favorite was Eddie Johnson. I saw virtually every home game in person from about 1980 to the mid-90s and have faithfully tuned in to watch this team whether good or bad since leaving town. And despite all of this, I absolutely don't need to believe that Nick Anderson was stronger then than TSJ is today. Maybe I'm not included in the right group texts?)
 
#340      

aaeismacgychel

A
aaeismacgychel
It's difficult to compare between eras as not only has nutrition and training changed, but the changes to the rules with regards to how the game was called as well as the style of play certainly plays a role. As a general rule of thumb, I would suggest going with that as time has gone one, the overall speed of the game and talent has definitely increased, however the elite athletes would stand out in any generation. The "average" player from several decades ago would indeed likely struggle greatly to make the same team nowadays. But when you compare someone like TSJ now to other All-American level players in the 80s and 90s, you'll find extremely high level athletic talent.

And truth is, just as it would be difficult for many players from back then to deal with the speed and how the game is played now, many players from today's game would struggle with the physical nature and defending that was allowed decades earlier. For example, with TSJ, while a very athletic, powerful, and shredded athlete, he would not be able to just put his head down and drive downhill when practically every team had their own version of Sissoko just waiting there to hard foul. It'd almost be a death wish. And that’s nothing against TSJ. It's just a different style of game and so you'dhave to alter your own technique. Same goes when it came to clutching, grabbing, and handchecking, all of that was more lenient back then.

For me personally, I think TSJ would've been a great college player in any time period, but same would go for much of the Flyin Illini. Stars are stars. Simple as that.
 
#341      

TheGMan

TheGMan
TheGMan
skyIdub said:
Yep, which...to Sedino's point...reflects an accurate increase in the science of nutrition and training. So on a large scale it's true...but to simply say "this individual is more athletic" or "the most athletic" in our history because of that modern advantage is not accurate.

To be more specific....TSJ is not even close to the leaper that Battle and Randle were. He might be faster. He's not stronger than Nick Anderson or Battle. He's not as quick as Gill. So all of those measurables have to be taken individually.

Now to argue that those players would not fare better than TSJ in the modern NBA combine is also a fools errand. There's really not an accurate way to quantify or prove it now.

All that to say that TSJ is indeed an amazing athlete...but he's not the most athletic basketball player in Illinois' history. He would lose a dunk contest to Battle and Randle 10 out of 10 times.

Edit: lol I forgot this was the Recruiting thread.
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Yeah, like I said, I wasn't getting into the current argument. I really don't care who is more athletic. It's such a subjective statement that it really doesn't matter.

I was just curious to see how many records have stood the test of time.
 
#344      

gsoillini

G
gsoillini
NCIllini10 said:
I believe so. Don't think he ever truly lived up to his athleticism....Would have have really liked to have him in '05.
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Really enjoy reading your stuff, NC. You must have learned about hoops from a basketball savant. But your spelling needs some work.;)
 
#345      

NCIllini10

NCIllini10
NCIllini10
gsoillini said:
Really enjoy reading your stuff, NC. You must have learned about hoops from a basketball savant. But your spelling needs some work.;)
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Yeah, well, some us write posts quickly between seeing patients, and don't go back to make sure that they have proofread the entry before posting! LOL! But, I will work on it.
 
#346      

CoachHooleyHoo

CoachHooleyHoo
CoachHooleyHoo
NCIllini10 said:
I believe so. Don't think he ever truly lived up to his athleticism....Would have have really liked to have him in '05.
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I don't mean this disrespectful to him but I think he was a better athlete than a basketball player. His basketball shortcomings hindered him from using his athleticism. But dude could jump out of the gym and was an athletic freak.
 
#347      

NCIllini10

NCIllini10
NCIllini10
CoachHooleyHoo said:
I don't mean this disrespectful to him but I think he was a better athlete than a basketball player. His basketball shortcomings hindered him from using his athleticism. But dude could jump out of the gym and was an athletic freak.
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Agreed
 
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