Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#251      
PepeSilvia
Indy Illini Fan said:
We had the funds … We just had already allocated them and Brad wanted AS …

Had the funds for guys like Ryan Conwell, Rodney Rice (yes I know he’s hurt), Dailyn Swain, AJ Storr, Tyon Grant Foster … Just to name a few …

We had the funds for Ace Miller … Brad went with Petro … Which cost us even more …

Part of the reason I think this whole Euro model was the way Brad went was because we don’t have the relationships with the key people like we used to …
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I mean I watched Stojakovic in his conference tournament last year and wanted him too. I don't really know what happened this season but he doesn't even look like the same player. He's playing with absolutely no confidence which is a far cry from even the Texas Tech game in November..

Petro is baffling because he clearly doesn't fit what Brad wants to do with the roster so why spend on him instead of going and getting a guard that can defend. Just from bit minutes I do think there is a legitimate power conference guard that can have success after transferring but Brad doesn't want to play him.
 
#253      
Indy Illini Fan
EmeraldCityIllini said:
My point is not that this roster construction was perfect. I've been very critical of the athleticism all year. While most people were whining about BLOB's during the 12 game winning streak, I was always pointing out how scary it was we didn't get anything easy in transition.

I'm not really crying over Adam Miller, he's been whatever - shooting 30% from 3 and he doesn't help the athleticism. Tyon Grant-Foster wasnt even eligible until late October - this board would have rightfully questioned that move. AJ Storr? meh.

If it was merely Williams versus Andrej, in hindsight, id take Williams with the emergence of Keaton. But guess what? I'm seeing Derrion as the primary option in Raleigh and his shooting efficiency is down, and that team is mid. My true point was as it relates to "elite NIL" - elite NIL means I don't have to choose.
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I’d argue that passing on some of the earlier portal entries to wait on Andrej or try and get Sarr was the wrong move …

He essentially got to set the price because we were desperate to land him …
 
#254      
madillini4
EmeraldCityIllini said:
I think you're selling the Z value short.

Am i crazy on Andrej though? I feel like that dude has helped us win a lot.
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he’s also helped us lose a lot too. limited offensive game, horrible vision with the ball, straight up bad defender. We didn’t put any shooters around him, which certainly didn’t help, but he’s not worth anywhere close to what we paid.
 
#255      
Illini in Italy
he’s also helped us lose a lot too. limited offensive game, horrible vision with the ball, straight up bad defender. We didn’t put any shooters around him, which certainly didn’t help, but he’s not worth anywhere close to what we paid.
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What did we pay? Do you know? I sure don’t, and I’m betting 99.99% of us here on Loyalty don’t know either.
 
#256      
Poe's Law
EmeraldCityIllini said:
All of this is not only fair, but in agreement on. I've tried to steer away from "ROI" on players because i just think it's a tough formula to crack. So is there guys on "lesser deals" who might have been better, yes! But that is super hard to nail down.

And he's our second leading scorer, behind only an NBA top 5 pick, in an offense that despite criticism, we can all agree at a mere baseline, is quite good. Also, at a baseline, we all agree our athleticism is not good, and he's probably our most athletic guy (which is a compliment but also a critique). He's just an odd one to pick on in IMO.

There's been some real disasters of high-paid transfers throughout the country, and for some reason, I think some fans think Andrej falls into that bucket, or close to it, and that is maddening to me.
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I just think Andrej at his best when he’s ball dominant so it doesn’t mesh as well with what Wagler is best at. Same problem with Tomi.
 
#257      
EmeraldCityIllini
Indy Illini Fan said:
I’d argue that passing on some of the earlier portal entries to wait on Andrej or try and get Sarr was the wrong move …

He essentially got to set the price because we were desperate to land him …
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Ok maybe. But as it relates to Andrej and Darrion Williams, this seems like a direct contradiction?

Andrej entered the portal on March 19th, committed to Illinois April 28th. Darrion Williams didn't even withdraw from the draft until May 22nd.
 
#259      
EmeraldCityIllini
madillini4 said:
he’s also helped us lose a lot too. limited offensive game, horrible vision with the ball, straight up bad defender. We didn’t put any shooters around him, which certainly didn’t help, but he’s not worth anywhere close to what we paid.
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We win together as a team. and lose together as a team. ROI to me should be based on team results. not player by player imo.

You're gonna find based on quite literally thousands of variables, individuals dont reach certain ROIs - you astutely pointed out shooters around Andrej as one of those - or blow the "ROI" out of the water.
 
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#261      
NarrowJ
EmeraldCityIllini said:
We win together as a team. and lose together as a team. ROI to me should be based on team results. not player by player imo.

You're gonna find based on quite literally thousands of variables, individuals dont reach certain ROIs - you astutely pointed out shooters around Andrej as one of those - or blow the "ROI" out of the water.
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Yep and there will always be guys who get paid more or less than they provide, it won't ever not be that way
 
#262      
Rap47
Tome was a very good and important player last year. The offense atyler uses is absolutely wrong for Tomi's game. The only thing they want him to do is make an occasional three. Michigan is good because they use their bigs to score inside and we don't. The Wisconsin game was a perfect showing g of this when we got a fifteen point lead by scoring in and out and then blew it with missed threes.
 
#263      
EmeraldCityIllini
NarrowJ said:
Yep and there will always be guys who get paid more or less than they provide, it won't ever not be that way
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It's a bad exercise man.

Lee and Fland at Florida got massive money this offseason. Both, have probably been "disappointments", but Florida is better with them, than without them. And if they win a final four, you rightfully will not hear a word about Golden not getting ROI, because that would be dumb.
 
#264      
Illini in Italy
Indy Illini Fan said:
He’s getting paid superstar money … He isn’t a superstar …

That’s just reality …
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Well, you’d be in the 0.01% of folks that would have a clue 😉

If we remove recency bias, he’s been a plus player for us, but only those who have an idea of what he’s being paid could make a “value” decision. Given some of the names that were alternative options (not all, but some), I’m not sure we could be sure to improve on the person in that roster slot.
 
#265      
warhog6g
Part of the reason I think this whole Euro model was the way Brad went was because we don’t have the relationships with the key people like we used to …
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The dollar goes farther in Europe than it does here.
 
#266      
madillini4
EmeraldCityIllini said:
We win together as a team. and lose together as a team. ROI to me should be based on team results. not player by player imo.

You're gonna find based on quite literally thousands of variables, individuals dont reach certain ROIs - you astutely pointed out shooters around Andrej as one of those - or blow the "ROI" out of the water.
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I see what you’re saying, but it isn’t as cut and dry as that. Example: Owen Freeman
 
#267      
thefalcon5
I’d love to see Tomi and Z return ala Ben. Understand your role and execute. I still think there’s a talent with both of them that can be dangerous.

That being said I’m also on board with a little house cleaning. Gotta retain Mirk and Jake. I know nowadays nobody is irreplaceable but if the goal is a national championship I think some retention is crucial (though much less important that a lot of people believe).
 
#270      
ChiTown
Indy Illini Fan said:
We had the funds … We just had already allocated them and Brad wanted AS …

Had the funds for guys like Ryan Conwell, Rodney Rice (yes I know he’s hurt), Dailyn Swain, AJ Storr, Tyon Grant Foster … Just to name a few …

We had the funds for Ace Miller … Brad went with Petro … Which cost us even more …

Part of the reason I think this whole Euro model was the way Brad went was because we don’t have the relationships with the key people like we used to …
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That was and wonder if still will be a problem.
 
#272      
HailtotheChief
Indy Illini Fan said:
Don’t think anyone would argue how great the ROI has been on Mirk & Wagler … I’d even throw Jake into that mix …

Love what Ben has brought defensively but we need more offensive production from the guy in that spot … He took a pay cut but I would’ve looked elsewhere for that spot … More athletic wing …

Z has been inconsistent but for the money … It’s not been an awful investment …

Tomi, Andrej, Petro, Boswell … That’s where the majority of the $$$ was spent … ROI hasn’t been there for any of them IMO …
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With what Keaton and Mirk have done im not sure there was room for a 19ppg for Andre. He has kind of done what i expedted. I never expected Andre to shoot 3s well. I wish he has rebounded better but with Keaton running the show and Mork coming 2nd Andres strengths are still what i expected. Drove, score. Some mid range and get to the line. We just may have over paid for his skill set given what Keaton and Mirk brought. Id love Haggerty or the young guy from ND
 
#273      
WyattEarp
HailtotheChief said:
With what Keaton and Mirk have done im not sure there was room for a 19ppg for Andre. He has kind of done what i expedted. I never expected Andre to shoot 3s well. I wish he has rebounded better but with Keaton running the show and Mork coming 2nd Andres strengths are still what i expected. Drove, score. Some mid range and get to the line. We just may have over paid for his skill set given what Keaton and Mirk brought. Id love Haggerty or the young guy from ND
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robin williams GIF
 
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#274      
PepeSilvia
EmeraldCityIllini said:
It's a bad exercise man.

Lee and Fland at Florida got massive money this offseason. Both, have probably been "disappointments", but Florida is better with them, than without them. And if they win a final four, you rightfully will not hear a word about Golden not getting ROI, because that would be dumb.
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Honestly think Fland and Lee are the flaw with Florida. If they had gotten better guards or at least upgraded from Lee I think they would be the best team in the country.

If say they got Conwell instead of Lee and Dent instead of Fland.
 
#275      
spillini
rmlsr said:
The question is how poorly will BU spend it on our high dollar NIL guys because this year Stojakovic and Petrovic was NOT money well spent and I would argue the Twins money could have been spent more wisely on other player(s). Jmo
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It's now time to revive the Brad Can(t) Count bit, for $ instead of schollys
 
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