Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

#576      
wc_illini
NarrowJ said:
I really don’t think people are “resisting bringing in another quality guy”, in fact it’s being said we likely will. I’m just saying it’s not gonna wreck our season if we don’t immediately go out and find the next Justin Harmon. Justin Harmon or 3ppg sophomore Jake Davis are not saviors that are going to vault us to a guaranteed NC.
Click to expand...
NarrowJ said:
We're already projected as a 1 seed by most. How many seed lines do you think we should try to move up from there?

On a more serious note, I've taken up too much space here with my opinion on this already, but just to summarize my thoughts:

- I think we will add one more, but it isn't going to be anyone super high-profile
- The 9th/10th on our F4 team last year were Lee & Petrovic, so surely that production won't be hard to repro
- Adding another bench piece doesn't move the needle as much as people are saying (NC favorites with vs #20ish without)
Click to expand...
I'll just ignore the bold parts since you're continuing to misrepresent what I'm saying. We're #5 at sportsbooks and close to #4 UConn. If that's "correct", then moving the needle bumps us up to a 1-seed. Depending on if/when we have injuries, it could even mean a 1-seed instead of dropping down to a 3-seed, or a deep run instead of an early exit (see Malachi Smith). That's why I gave examples of solid transfers (similar/higher rated than Harmon) who came to be 7th men at UConn and Houston.

alaskaillini said:
The coaching staff is not going to recruit over players they have promised not to recruit over
...
If the staff thought that there is such a player, they would go after them.
Click to expand...
I agree that they shouldn't break promises, so what's done is done. I don't think Duke, UConn, or Michigan would make much of a promise to a #47 recruit, though maybe we aren't quite "there" yet. And I'm not saying anything about Morillo specifically- I'm merely talking about how much talent the top programs accumulate. And I'd much rather be us than UK, BYU, or Indiana, so I'm not complaining at all. I trust we can maintain our ranking/$ ratio while we continue to increase our resources and recruiting.

None of us could possibly know if a proven key reserve actually is or isn't available (here or overseas) and if we have/haven't already promised that PT. I'm just saying such guys have existed (so it isn't an impossible ask of a player) and I think one would be worth adding.
 
#578      
wc_illini
Emerson Bigguns said:
The key to sustained success is giving some runway for our youngsters to grow. Of our top 8, 4 of them are almost certainly out the door next year. (The twins, Andrej, and Jake...unless the proposed 5 in 5 rules change that)

It is very possible, and I'd wager likely that Mirk and Vaaks will also strongly consider the NBA. (almost certainly go to the combine) Both are among the best freshmen in the country last year, who will be playing college ball this fall. Both will be given a ton of opportunity to showcase their facilitation skills this season, in an NBA style offense, surrounded by really good players. They both have the size and skills to attract plenty of attention from scouts.

I wouldn't bet the farm on Coleman being here either... He has the pedigree and skill set to be a potential one and done. He has a very NBA friendly skill set, and decent enough length. If he shoots the ball anything close to what he did in HS (which was completely absurd), he could be a lottery pick.

Sooo...

We will be looking at a near full re-load. Getting Morillo fully bought in to this program should be a top priority. No matter what his contribution is this year, he will have a massive opportunity the following year. When you consider the big picture, it's not hard to see why the staff is reluctant to continue big game hunting. I have no doubt they will continue to look for depth to mitigate injury risk, but they want these young guys to get their feet wet too.

I know Davis and Zens are already committed to enrolling in a few weeks. Brown should follow suit. Getting them on the floor with our vets will give the staff a much better idea of how they will hold up against B1G opponents. They can then assess what they might need to find before practices start.

Hopefully, Morillo and Coleman are of a similar mind, though they may have opportunities to compete internationally this summer, which they should take advantage of if offered. The more they compete with and against other elite young players, the more ready they will be for the bright lights of the B1G.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your perspective. I think this is a better counter-point to my opinion that we should look to bring in one more 6-8th man than most of the other posts.

Whether we should be "all-in" on this year vs developing the roadmap to the future is certainly a tough tradeoff. And I have no issue with waiting a few weeks to see how guys look together.
 
#580      
Joel Goodson
Emerson Bigguns said:
The primary issue remains. Our top 8 are really good players. There are still a lot of teams out there looking for starters. There is no one out there who could come to Illinois and be presumed to start at this point. The starting 5 are REALLY good.

The staff is waiting, because currently, most players are actively shopping themselves for starting spots. Lee and Ty left to find PT. That's the #1 reason guys at the tier we would be shopping, jump into the portal. For top players, it's top dollar, for guys who have been role players, it's PT to try to become a top dollar kind of guy next year.

We've spent on top dollar guys, and we don't have much guaranteed PT to offer right now. Could a guy come in and compete with Jake, Z, and the freshmen for minutes? Sure, but Obviously Z is going to play a LOT, and Jake was a starter for much of last year, fits extremely well into his role, and has not only earned the trust of the staff and his teammates, but is viewed as a team leader. Stealing his minutes is going to be VERY difficult. So you are left trying to recruit guys who really just want to play, to a roster where they are going to have to beat out a 6'7", top 50, "Swiss army knife" kind of player for any kind of consistent minutes, or wait until someone gets hurt.

Winning aside, it's not a very attractive sell. The staff is being patient, because they know that's what they have to do. There is no reason for them to be chasing their tails running after mid-tier players who are ultimately going to say, "no thanks".

Wait until later in the cycle, see who is left when the best seats are taken, and go from there. Instead, maybe spend a little time in Europe mining for gems...
Click to expand...

Misko special
 
#581      
NarrowJ
wc_illini said:
I'll just ignore the bold parts since you're continuing to misrepresent what I'm saying. We're #5 at sportsbooks and close to #4 UConn. If that's "correct", then moving the needle bumps us up to a 1-seed. Depending on if/when we have injuries, it could even mean a 1-seed instead of dropping down to a 3-seed, or a deep run instead of an early exit (see Malachi Smith). That's why I gave examples of solid transfers (similar/higher rated than Harmon) who came to be 7th men at UConn and Houston.


I agree that they shouldn't break promises, so what's done is done. I don't think Duke, UConn, or Michigan would make much of a promise to a #47 recruit, though maybe we aren't quite "there" yet. And I'm not saying anything about Morillo specifically- I'm merely talking about how much talent the top programs accumulate. And I'd much rather be us than UK, BYU, or Indiana, so I'm not complaining at all. I trust we can maintain our ranking/$ ratio while we continue to increase our resources and recruiting.

None of us could possibly know if a proven key reserve actually is or isn't available (here or overseas) and if we have/haven't already promised that PT. I'm just saying such guys have existed (so it isn't an impossible ask of a player) and I think one would be worth adding.
Click to expand...

I mean bottom line here is I’m trusting the D1 coaching staff that just took us to a final four over wc_illini from the message board. It’s all it boils down to, really.

You say we need another player to be truly great? I don’t agree with that opinion and your continued lengthy essay style posts that reiterate the same lame points over and over and over again while ignoring our final four team didn’t even have a 9th man isnt going to convince me otherwise. At this point you are just polluting the thread with redundant walls of text that say the same thing as the last.

Say we add a mid major guard, and Coleman or Morillo opts out of his LOI (easy to do nowadays and insiders have said this would happen). How do you feel about the team then?
 
Last edited:
#582      
wc_illini
NarrowJ said:
I mean bottom line here is I’m trusting the D1 coaching staff that just took us to a final four over wc_illini from the message board. It’s all it boils down to, really.

You say we need another player to be truly great? I don’t agree with that opinion and your continued lengthy essay style posts that reiterate the same lame points over and over and over again aren’t going to convince me otherwise.

Say we add a mid major guard, and Coleman or Morillo opts out of his LOI (easy to do nowadays and insiders have said this would happen). How do you feel about the team then?
Click to expand...
I think we can have respectful debate here without insults and continuing to misrepresent other opinions.

I also think it's unfair to suggest the staff is on one side of this debate along with you, and I (or anyone else posting recently) is on the other. I've seen plenty of threads on this board where that would be a fair assessment, but not this one. Neither of us really knows what the staff is thinking (we know what the insiders say, but I imagine the staff holds some things pretty close), and I haven't criticized them (at least I haven't meant to- I think they're doing a fantastic job).

Sure, maybe the staff thinks the top 8 are set with no need to even consider a possible improvement of that "caliber". Or maybe they figure they're set merely because nobody else is available/willing (but they'd happily take someone if they were). Maybe they're waiting to see how guys look (after they're enrolled) before deciding what the biggest need is, or they're still quietly working the portal and Europe for any possible improvements.
 
Last edited:
#584      
NarrowJ
wc_illini said:
I think we can have respectful debate here without insults and continuing to misrepresent other opinions.

I also think it's unfair to suggest the staff is on one side of this debate along with you, and I (or anyone else posting recently) is on the other. I've seen plenty of threads on this board where that would be a fair assessment, but not this one. Neither of us really knows what the staff is thinking (we know what the insiders say, but I imagine the staff holds some things pretty close), and I haven't criticized them (at least I haven't meant to- I think they're doing a fantastic job).

Sure, maybe the staff thinks the top 8 are set with no need to even consider a possible improvement of that "caliber". Or maybe they figure they're set merely because nobody else is available/willing (but they'd happily take someone if they were). Maybe they're waiting to see how guys look (after they're enrolled) before deciding what the biggest need is, or they're still quietly working the portal and Europe for any possible improvements.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you keep pinging me, I obviously don't agree with you and won't no matter how many paragraphs you continue to write about this topic.
 
#585      
sulli
Fly Illini Fly! said:
The problem is what you're asking for is really not feasible. Duke and the Coach Cal teams of the 2010s have always been the exceptions.

Is there room to add a rotational 8th/9th man? IMO, yes, and it's kind of the missing piece at the moment.

Does it need to be a guaranteed starter and 5 star level transfer? No. There's just too much talent at the top of this roster for that to be the case. Staff tried to make it work with Blackwell, which would've been a monster addition, but it didn't work out (for whichever reason -- not going to speculate). That should tell you enough about how things stand as it pretains to that scenario.
Click to expand...
Didn't we literally last year pick up a freshman who nobody thought would play who ended up being our best player?

My point is that rotational 8th/9th man if he is a freshman or a sophomore has a chance to be better than that. If he doesn't, then he has a very good chance at being unplayable. People have way too much confidence in their ability to measure how good a guy is going to be that they haven't ever seen play, let alone play at the Big Ten level. My point is one about our own (fans) humility. Even Underwood didn't know Wagler was going to be this good in May of 2025. By the time August/September rolled around I think he was starting to get that idea. How do we know what the 9th man is?

Another way of saying it is the impact a 9th man has on our performance in March is very indistinguishable from zero. If you sign him as a 9th man and you know he is the 9th man, he is sitting on the bench come March (or if he is playing because of injury the season is over). My point is we don't know that the guy is for sure a 9th man.
 
#586      
Illini in Indiana
Andrej Stojakovic is leaning toward coming back for Senior year.

and Morez is going NBA.

Not an insider but the Facebook is algorithm is feeding me good stuff in the past hour

See U Mahesh Babu GIF
 
#588      
wc_illini
Piotyr said:
Stop treating the sportsbooks like they're a source of information or expertise. They're more interested in gauging public opinion and money and coming down in the middle, and are completely divorced from actual analysis or statistical projection of how a team will actually perform.
Click to expand...
Well if we want to get more technical, their goal is to maximize profit while managing risk, and they're fine with some extra "dumb" money on one side, though they typically won't let that get too far. Regardless, for reasonably efficient markets there isn't a meaningfully better predictor since a lot of smart money is based on actual analysis.

The relevant question today is whether preseason NCAA futures markets are efficient enough to outperform current media and computer rankings. I think yes, but there aren't any studies I'm aware of to say either way. I'd be very interested if you've seen any.
 
#589      
ColSLU69
alaskaillini said:
No one can conclusively resist because there is not enough room on the roster because it is so player dependent in terms of fit and availability, and representations made to the existing players to induce them to sign. I think a lot of those people you say are resisting are just doubting that there is a player good enough to make a difference that would be willing to accept that role and not be a risk to the locker room or the retention of the freshmen that they have recruited. The coaching staff is not going to recruit over players they have promised not to recruit over. Yes, the current roster have all signed. But give me an example of an available player that we should be going after at this point that wouldn't break any promises or representations the staff has made to the other players. If the staff thought that there is such a player, they would go after them.
Click to expand...
I don't believe that the Illini signing a backup PF from the transfer portal, one like 6'9", 245-pound junior David Fuchs (San Francisco), would break any "promises or representations the staff has made to other players." Mirk would still be the starter at PF. He'd still get his 32 minutes of playing time per game. There is no other backup PF on the roster. Unless perhaps the staff has promised those backup minutes to Big Z? Or to Jason Jakstys? In my opinion, neither Z nor JJ are Forwards, even if they could handle spot minutes at that position. In case of an injury to Mirk, you probably wouldn't want to split his 40 minutes between two centers, while weakening the backup center position behind Tomi.
 
#591      
ColSLU69
jamarvelous31 said:
Stoj has until 05/27 to drop out of the draft and 5 new players are coming in the next 2-3 weeks. Seems reasonable to let the staff make sure they have bodies on campus before they pivot to filling a hypothetical hole in the back half of the roster.

I don't think people are saying there isn't room, it's that this isn't fantasy football and adding someone to a talented roster is a balancing act that the staff has earned trust to do.
Click to expand...
Can't we "trust the staff" while still offering opinions and/or making suggestions? I'd like to think so.
 
#592      
wc_illini
ColSLU69 said:
I don't believe that the Illini signing a backup PF from the transfer portal, one like 6'9", 245-pound junior David Fuchs (San Francisco), would break any "promises or representations the staff has made to other players." Mirk would still be the starter at PF. He'd still get his 32 minutes of playing time per game. There is no other backup PF on the roster. Unless perhaps the staff has promised those backup minutes to Big Z? Or to Jason Jakstys? In my opinion, neither Z nor JJ are Forwards, even if they could handle spot minutes at that position. In case of an injury to Mirk, you probably wouldn't want to split his 40 minutes between two centers, while weakening the backup center position behind Tomi.
Click to expand...
He committed to Clemson yesterday
 
#594      
ColSLU69
blackdog said:
Its been pretty heavily implied that bringing someone else in for that role risks losing one of the people currently in those spots. Seems not worth it when the guy most likely to leave would the one the staff thinks has one of the highest ceilings (Morillo).
Click to expand...
I don't thonk that adding an experienced PF to come off the bench would have ANY IMPACT on Morillo's playing time or his happiness with the program.
 
#595      
Joel Goodson
NarrowJ said:
I mean bottom line here is I’m trusting the D1 coaching staff that just took us to a final four over wc_illini from the message board. It’s all it boils down to, really.

You say we need another player to be truly great? I don’t agree with that opinion and your continued lengthy essay style posts that reiterate the same lame points over and over and over again while ignoring our final four team didn’t even have a 9th man isnt going to convince me otherwise. At this point you are just polluting the thread with redundant walls of text that say the same thing as the last.

Say we add a mid major guard, and Coleman or Morillo opts out of his LOI (easy to do nowadays and insiders have said this would happen). How do you feel about the team then?
Click to expand...

imagine if our staff actually knew what's going on
 
#597      
ColSLU69
NarrowJ said:
I mean bottom line here is I’m trusting the D1 coaching staff that just took us to a final four over wc_illini from the message board. It’s all it boils down to, really.

You say we need another player to be truly great? I don’t agree with that opinion and your continued lengthy essay style posts that reiterate the same lame points over and over and over again while ignoring our final four team didn’t even have a 9th man isnt going to convince me otherwise. At this point you are just polluting the thread with redundant walls of text that say the same thing as the last.

Say we add a mid major guard, and Coleman or Morillo opts out of his LOI (easy to do nowadays and insiders have said this would happen). How do you feel about the team then?
Click to expand...
You're making a very personal attack on WC. Shouldn't be needed to make an argument or your point.

I see a lot of folks wanting to make next year's team better. To insure against major injuries or illnesses at important player positions. Not sure anyone has said that adding a 9th (or 10th) man will make the team "truly great." And "polluting" the thread? "Redundant walls of texts"? Really??? Just ignore WC's texts if they bother you so much.

Who exactly has proposed adding a "mid major guard" that would threaten a loss of playing time for Coleman or Morillo, one that would lead them to opt out of their LOIs?
 
#598      
jamarvelous31
ColSLU69 said:
Can't we "trust the staff" while still offering opinions and/or making suggestions? I'd like to think so.
Click to expand...
Feel like it's fitting that you just suggested a committed player who already transferred from his first school because he wanted a starting role.

Not trying to pick on you, but the "opinions and suggestions" (not specific to you) commonly are essay sized posts arguing for dudes that have no interest in being the 3rd big or competing with a laundry list of dudes the staff seem to really like.

Hence, trust the staff.
 
Last edited:
#599      
nichi
jamarvelous31 said:
Are the #9thman folks even in agreement with what position we need?

Thought we needed a backup backup power forward?
Click to expand...
Bearing in mind position-less basketball, the current projected roster looks something like this:

1-2: Vaaks, Coleman, Morillo, and Brown. plus Fagbemi

3: Andrez, J Davis, and Zens

4/5: Mirk, Jakstys, L Davis

5: Tomi, Z

That looks to me like pretty good guard and wing depth. I would be looking for a another big that can play center as a depth piece.

As for "9th man", that might be between Zens and Brown. Zens look like he could potentially play multiple roles.

The other Davis is a player with an interesting skill set that we haven't really talked about much. He won't redshirt if the new 5 year age based model passes.
 
Back