Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#701      
wc_illini
NarrowJ said:
I mean bottom line here is I’m trusting the D1 coaching staff that just took us to a final four over wc_illini from the message board. It’s all it boils down to, really.

You say we need another player to be truly great? I don’t agree with that opinion and your continued lengthy essay style posts that reiterate the same lame points over and over and over again aren’t going to convince me otherwise.

Say we add a mid major guard, and Coleman or Morillo opts out of his LOI (easy to do nowadays and insiders have said this would happen). How do you feel about the team then?
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I think we can have respectful debate here without insults and continuing to misrepresent other opinions.

I also think it's unfair to suggest the staff is on one side of this debate along with you, and I (or anyone else posting recently) is on the other. I've seen plenty of threads on this board where that would be a fair assessment, but not this one. Neither of us really knows what the staff is thinking (we know what the insiders say, but I imagine the staff holds some things pretty close), and I haven't criticized them (at least I haven't meant to- I think they're doing a fantastic job).

Sure, maybe the staff thinks the top 8 are set with no need to even consider a possible improvement of that "caliber". Or maybe they figure they're set merely because nobody else is available/willing (but they'd happily take someone if they were). Maybe they're waiting to see how guys look (after they're enrolled) before deciding what the biggest need is, or they're still quietly working the portal and Europe for any possible improvements.
 
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#703      
NarrowJ
wc_illini said:
I think we can have respectful debate here without insults and continuing to misrepresent other opinions.

I also think it's unfair to suggest the staff is on one side of this debate along with you, and I (or anyone else posting recently) is on the other. I've seen plenty of threads on this board where that would be a fair assessment, but not this one. Neither of us really knows what the staff is thinking (we know what the insiders say, but I imagine the staff holds some things pretty close), and I haven't criticized them (at least I haven't meant to- I think they're doing a fantastic job).

Sure, maybe the staff thinks the top 8 are set with no need to even consider a possible improvement of that "caliber". Or maybe they figure they're set merely because nobody else is available/willing (but they'd happily take someone if they were). Maybe they're waiting to see how guys look (after they're enrolled) before deciding what the biggest need is, or they're still quietly working the portal and Europe for any possible improvements.
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I'm not sure why you keep pinging me, I obviously don't agree with you and won't no matter how many paragraphs you continue to write about this topic.
 
#704      
joeybcrazy13
Work Hard Jocko Willink GIF by MasterClass
 
#705      
sulli
Fly Illini Fly! said:
The problem is what you're asking for is really not feasible. Duke and the Coach Cal teams of the 2010s have always been the exceptions.

Is there room to add a rotational 8th/9th man? IMO, yes, and it's kind of the missing piece at the moment.

Does it need to be a guaranteed starter and 5 star level transfer? No. There's just too much talent at the top of this roster for that to be the case. Staff tried to make it work with Blackwell, which would've been a monster addition, but it didn't work out (for whichever reason -- not going to speculate). That should tell you enough about how things stand as it pretains to that scenario.
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Didn't we literally last year pick up a freshman who nobody thought would play who ended up being our best player?

My point is that rotational 8th/9th man if he is a freshman or a sophomore has a chance to be better than that. If he doesn't, then he has a very good chance at being unplayable. People have way too much confidence in their ability to measure how good a guy is going to be that they haven't ever seen play, let alone play at the Big Ten level. My point is one about our own (fans) humility. Even Underwood didn't know Wagler was going to be this good in May of 2025. By the time August/September rolled around I think he was starting to get that idea. How do we know what the 9th man is?

Another way of saying it is the impact a 9th man has on our performance in March is very indistinguishable from zero. If you sign him as a 9th man and you know he is the 9th man, he is sitting on the bench come March (or if he is playing because of injury the season is over). My point is we don't know that the guy is for sure a 9th man.
 
#708      
wc_illini
Piotyr said:
Stop treating the sportsbooks like they're a source of information or expertise. They're more interested in gauging public opinion and money and coming down in the middle, and are completely divorced from actual analysis or statistical projection of how a team will actually perform.
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Well if we want to get more technical, their goal is to maximize profit while managing risk, and they're fine with some extra "dumb" money on one side, though they typically won't let that get too far. Regardless, for reasonably efficient markets there isn't a meaningfully better predictor since a lot of smart money is based on actual analysis.

The relevant question today is whether preseason NCAA futures markets are efficient enough to outperform current media and computer rankings. I think yes, but there aren't any studies I'm aware of to say either way. I'd be very interested if you've seen any.
 
#709      
JKR
There is a limit to the NIL available. It is not the university that goes all in but the donors who are going to pay the nil. We have football competing for those dollars. There is also the issue of finding a piece that fits and won't be a locker room issue. There is more to it than just buying the best players available - ask Louisville or Kentucky or BYU how that went for them last year. And unless you have one of the largest budgets, you have to take your chances that some bad things don't happen. It is not easy to get to a final four, let alone win a title, even if everything goes right. There is a team of very smart and savvy people trying their best to field the best team possible. If you have a couple of million to spare, I am sure they would take you up on it and add another piece assuming one is available that makes sense but that is a big if.
We had 8 high major starting level players last year - two of which were untested freshman that worked out. So that means we went into the year with 6 starting level players including Davis and Humrichous. We have 6 again this year - Mirk, Tommie, Z, Davis, Stoj and Vaaks. Compare those 6 to Tommie, Z, Davis, Stoj, Humrichous and Boz - four of whom are back with another year of experience. We are in as good or better shape going into the summer as we were last year. We are going to need a couple of freshman to contribute, but not to the same extent as last year because the established players can take up that burden.
Team construction is a balancing act and an art, not a science. We won't know the results until they play out. Have to just relax and look forward to what that will be.
And by the way, these freshman that we will be giving the opportunity to compete will be the backbone of the team in a year or two.
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Chances are that half of those freshmen won't be here in a year or two.
 
#710      
ColSLU69
alaskaillini said:
No one can conclusively resist because there is not enough room on the roster because it is so player dependent in terms of fit and availability, and representations made to the existing players to induce them to sign. I think a lot of those people you say are resisting are just doubting that there is a player good enough to make a difference that would be willing to accept that role and not be a risk to the locker room or the retention of the freshmen that they have recruited. The coaching staff is not going to recruit over players they have promised not to recruit over. Yes, the current roster have all signed. But give me an example of an available player that we should be going after at this point that wouldn't break any promises or representations the staff has made to the other players. If the staff thought that there is such a player, they would go after them.
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I don't believe that the Illini signing a backup PF from the transfer portal, one like 6'9", 245-pound junior David Fuchs (San Francisco), would break any "promises or representations the staff has made to other players." Mirk would still be the starter at PF. He'd still get his 32 minutes of playing time per game. There is no other backup PF on the roster. Unless perhaps the staff has promised those backup minutes to Big Z? Or to Jason Jakstys? In my opinion, neither Z nor JJ are Forwards, even if they could handle spot minutes at that position. In case of an injury to Mirk, you probably wouldn't want to split his 40 minutes between two centers, while weakening the backup center position behind Tomi.
 
#712      
ColSLU69
jamarvelous31 said:
Stoj has until 05/27 to drop out of the draft and 5 new players are coming in the next 2-3 weeks. Seems reasonable to let the staff make sure they have bodies on campus before they pivot to filling a hypothetical hole in the back half of the roster.

I don't think people are saying there isn't room, it's that this isn't fantasy football and adding someone to a talented roster is a balancing act that the staff has earned trust to do.
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Can't we "trust the staff" while still offering opinions and/or making suggestions? I'd like to think so.
 
#713      
wc_illini
ColSLU69 said:
I don't believe that the Illini signing a backup PF from the transfer portal, one like 6'9", 245-pound junior David Fuchs (San Francisco), would break any "promises or representations the staff has made to other players." Mirk would still be the starter at PF. He'd still get his 32 minutes of playing time per game. There is no other backup PF on the roster. Unless perhaps the staff has promised those backup minutes to Big Z? Or to Jason Jakstys? In my opinion, neither Z nor JJ are Forwards, even if they could handle spot minutes at that position. In case of an injury to Mirk, you probably wouldn't want to split his 40 minutes between two centers, while weakening the backup center position behind Tomi.
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He committed to Clemson yesterday
 
#715      
ColSLU69
blackdog said:
Its been pretty heavily implied that bringing someone else in for that role risks losing one of the people currently in those spots. Seems not worth it when the guy most likely to leave would the one the staff thinks has one of the highest ceilings (Morillo).
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I don't thonk that adding an experienced PF to come off the bench would have ANY IMPACT on Morillo's playing time or his happiness with the program.
 
#716      
Joel Goodson
NarrowJ said:
I mean bottom line here is I’m trusting the D1 coaching staff that just took us to a final four over wc_illini from the message board. It’s all it boils down to, really.

You say we need another player to be truly great? I don’t agree with that opinion and your continued lengthy essay style posts that reiterate the same lame points over and over and over again while ignoring our final four team didn’t even have a 9th man isnt going to convince me otherwise. At this point you are just polluting the thread with redundant walls of text that say the same thing as the last.

Say we add a mid major guard, and Coleman or Morillo opts out of his LOI (easy to do nowadays and insiders have said this would happen). How do you feel about the team then?
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imagine if our staff actually knew what's going on
 
#719      
ColSLU69
NarrowJ said:
I mean bottom line here is I’m trusting the D1 coaching staff that just took us to a final four over wc_illini from the message board. It’s all it boils down to, really.

You say we need another player to be truly great? I don’t agree with that opinion and your continued lengthy essay style posts that reiterate the same lame points over and over and over again while ignoring our final four team didn’t even have a 9th man isnt going to convince me otherwise. At this point you are just polluting the thread with redundant walls of text that say the same thing as the last.

Say we add a mid major guard, and Coleman or Morillo opts out of his LOI (easy to do nowadays and insiders have said this would happen). How do you feel about the team then?
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You're making a very personal attack on WC. Shouldn't be needed to make an argument or your point.

I see a lot of folks wanting to make next year's team better. To insure against major injuries or illnesses at important player positions. Not sure anyone has said that adding a 9th (or 10th) man will make the team "truly great." And "polluting" the thread? "Redundant walls of texts"? Really??? Just ignore WC's texts if they bother you so much.

Who exactly has proposed adding a "mid major guard" that would threaten a loss of playing time for Coleman or Morillo, one that would lead them to opt out of their LOIs?
 
#720      
jamarvelous31
ColSLU69 said:
Can't we "trust the staff" while still offering opinions and/or making suggestions? I'd like to think so.
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Feel like it's fitting that you just suggested a committed player who already transferred from his first school because he wanted a starting role.

Not trying to pick on you, but the "opinions and suggestions" (not specific to you) commonly are essay sized posts arguing for dudes that have no interest in being the 3rd big or competing with a laundry list of dudes the staff seem to really like.

Hence, trust the staff.
 
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#721      
nichi
jamarvelous31 said:
Are the #9thman folks even in agreement with what position we need?

Thought we needed a backup backup power forward?
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Bearing in mind position-less basketball, the current projected roster looks something like this:

1-2: Vaaks, Coleman, Morillo, and Brown. plus Fagbemi

3: Andrez, J Davis, and Zens

4/5: Mirk, Jakstys, L Davis

5: Tomi, Z

That looks to me like pretty good guard and wing depth. I would be looking for a another big that can play center as a depth piece.

As for "9th man", that might be between Zens and Brown. Zens look like he could potentially play multiple roles.

The other Davis is a player with an interesting skill set that we haven't really talked about much. He won't redshirt if the new 5 year age based model passes.
 
#723      
jamarvelous31
nichi said:
Bearing in mind position-less basketball, the current projected roster looks something like this:

1-2: Vaaks, Coleman, Morillo, and Brown. plus Fagbemi

3: Andrez, J Davis, and Zens

4/5: Mirk, Jakstys, L Davis

5: Tomi, Z

That looks to me like pretty good guard and wing depth. I would be looking for a another big that can play center as a depth piece.

As for "9th man", that might be between Zens and Brown. Zens look like he could potentially play multiple roles.

The other Davis is a player with an interesting skill set that we haven't really talked about much. He won't redshirt if the new 5 year age based model passes.
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100% agree and man I love the look of this team, a bunch of large men that can shoot and handle. In the spirit of position-less ball, I'd just add that Morillo has the size/grit to fill in at the 3 and Mirk played really well as essentially our 2nd ball handler.

RE other Davis I think its all on where Jakstys is health wise. Without seeing him he's at least another large body if it's a Chris Bosh situation.
 
#724      
daniellarusso
Kendall Gill’s Uncle said:
The romancing of Ty’s performance and abilities from 3 yrs ago on this thread are at cottage cheese levels!

He was probably offered a 9th man and didn’t want it. He got a degree and landed somewhere else where he’ll get PT. Great for him. Let it go.
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Have you ever tried Mikes Hot Honey in your cottage cheese?
 
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