Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#226      
lstewart53x3
CoalCity said:
This staff can really spot talent early
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It might be Brad’s best skill.

Robert talks about it all the time, but in Brad’s second recruiting cycle, here are the visitors he got onto campus that fall/winter, their rankings according to 247, and their accolades:

#11 Khalil Whitney: none
#23 Oscar Tshiebwe: National Player Of The Year
#54 Kofi Cockburn: 2x Consensus All American
#57 Drew Timme: 3x Consensus All American
#60 EJ Lidell: 2x 1st team all B1G
#120 Terrence Shannon Jr: 1st Team All American

If we had the Illinois program of today, then, he absolutely would’ve landed a few of those guys and a what a hit rate he would’ve had.
 
#227      
Fly Illini Fly!
lstewart53x3 said:
It might be Brad’s best skill.

Robert talks about it all the time, but in Brad’s second recruiting cycle, here are the visitors he got onto campus that fall/winter, their rankings according to 247, and their accolades:

#11 Khalil Whitney: none
#23 Oscar Tshiebwe: National Player Of The Year
#54 Kofi Cockburn: 2x Consensus All American
#57 Drew Timme: 3x Consensus All American
#60 EJ Lidell: 2x 1st team all B1G
#120 Terrence Shannon Jr: 1st Team All American

If we had the Illinois program of today, then, he absolutely would’ve landed a few of those guys and a what a hit rate he would’ve had.
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Talked about at 42:10 --

 
#228      
Victor Choke-a-Baby
RML said:
How many deep-threat 5's are also rim protectors? I'm not sure that anyone can ask for both a starting five who can all hit from deep (i.e., prevent the D from clogging the lane) and a rim protector in the starting 5.
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Heard Werner talking on a podcast yesterday that Illinois has 4 five-star visits lined up for this fall, but he forgot one. Last I knew, Dylan Betts is also a five-star who is taking an Official visit here next month, who could also reclassify.
 
#229      
Victor Choke-a-Baby
lstewart53x3 said:
It might be Brad’s best skill.

Robert talks about it all the time, but in Brad’s second recruiting cycle, here are the visitors he got onto campus that fall/winter, their rankings according to 247, and their accolades:

#11 Khalil Whitney: none
#23 Oscar Tshiebwe: National Player Of The Year
#54 Kofi Cockburn: 2x Consensus All American
#57 Drew Timme: 3x Consensus All American
#60 EJ Lidell: 2x 1st team all B1G
#120 Terrence Shannon Jr: 1st Team All American

If we had the Illinois program of today, then, he absolutely would’ve landed a few of those guys and a what a hit rate he would’ve had.
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According to Wikipedia "Terrence Shannon Jr. was named a 3rd-team All-American by the Associated Press (AP) and received 2nd-team All-American honors from select outlets like 247Sports and CBS Sports."

Coaches had him 2nd team I think, but we here at Illinois, all know that TSJ was really the runner-up for National Player of the Year that year, and was a 1st Team All-American!!

But I just wanted to clarify lol...
 
#231      
PepeSilvia
lstewart53x3 said:
It might be Brad’s best skill.

Robert talks about it all the time, but in Brad’s second recruiting cycle, here are the visitors he got onto campus that fall/winter, their rankings according to 247, and their accolades:

#11 Khalil Whitney: none
#23 Oscar Tshiebwe: National Player Of The Year
#54 Kofi Cockburn: 2x Consensus All American
#57 Drew Timme: 3x Consensus All American
#60 EJ Lidell: 2x 1st team all B1G
#120 Terrence Shannon Jr: 1st Team All American

If we had the Illinois program of today, then, he absolutely would’ve landed a few of those guys and a what a hit rate he would’ve had.
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As far as scouting the lower ranked kids, Shannon speaks to that even though he didn't land him the 1st or even 2nd time.

I'd make an argument that Shannon's while being ranked the lowest had the best individual season(his final one) of anyone on that list though some guys left early.

On another note, I still the the 2021 team wins the national title of Liddell stayed in Illinois. The trio of Ayo/Liddell/Kofi would have been absolutely nasty especially with Trent as your 4th guy.
 
#233      
Orangetool
Illinilosch said:
Here's a possible player comparison for QK.....

Roger Powell Jr???

🤔
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I ran into Roger Powell Jr. at the Y in Rockford shortly after he had graduated. He saw my Illini cap and came up to say he liked it.
I told him I liked the way he followed his shot.

He just smiled and gave me a fist.
A pretty cool interaction from a cool guy, quality dude and great Illini.
 
#236      
Mobi
thefalcon5 said:
It’s been one of the more consistent traits. Of course they aren’t batting 1.000 but man they’ve got some great fringe guys, with Wagler obviously being the Magnus Opus.
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Their batting rate is real high. The only total failure I can think of was Petrovic.
 
#237      
RockfordIllini
Mobi said:
Their batting rate is real high. The only total failure I can think of was Petrovic.
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Omar Payne. Cary Booth. There have been a few others but agree Petro is probably their biggest miss in the NIL era as the rumors were we made a pretty sizable investment to get him.

But in the film you can see what they saw. I still think there is an alternate universe where some combination of not having visa delays, not getting injured early on and Keaton not being an AA where Petro finds his footing and is a plus PG for us.

But identifying talent and guys who fit what we want to do does seem to be a super power. And now that rosters have expanded I think they will continue to take as many preps as they can, realizing only a few will become contributors. But from the sound of it Williams, Davis and Zens have already impressed. TBD on whether any of them turn into rotation players but all seem to be better than their rankings.
 
#238      
NarrowJ
Recruiting bust at PG you say? I thought that Wagler kid that ate up all the minutes at PG this season was pretty good for being the 261st recruit.

Petrovic didn't play limited minutes because he was a bust, he played limited minutes because Keaton was a gem.

Would be willing to wager Petro has a very productive season in the Big East this year.
 
#239      
Combo
RockfordIllini said:
Omar Payne. Cary Booth. There have been a few others but agree Petro is probably their biggest miss in the NIL era as the rumors were we made a pretty sizable investment to get him.

But in the film you can see what they saw. I still think there is an alternate universe where some combination of not having visa delays, not getting injured early on and Keaton not being an AA where Petro finds his footing and is a plus PG for us.

But identifying talent and guys who fit what we want to do does seem to be a super power. And now that rosters have expanded I think they will continue to take as many preps as they can, realizing only a few will become contributors. But from the sound of it Williams, Davis and Zens have already impressed. TBD on whether any of them turn into rotation players but all seem to be better than their rankings.
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I'm with you on that. It was just a perfect storm of events for Petro here.
 
#241      
CoalCity
NarrowJ said:
Recruiting bust at PG you say? I thought that Wagler kid that ate up all the minutes at PG this season was pretty good for being the 261st recruit.

Petrovic didn't play limited minutes because he was a bust, he played limited minutes because Keaton was a gem.

Would be willing to wager Petro has a very productive season in the Big East this year.
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Petro played limited minutes not only because Wagler was a gem but also because he was too small and weak to play any kind of defense, didn't put any observable effort into defense, couldn't rebound, loafed back on defense after poor plays and was not a shooter. Fortunately his large NIL number was offset by Keaton's bargain price

He'll forever be remembered fondly for his pass to AJ for AJ's redeeming 3

Before I take your wager, what are your criteria for "a very productive season"?
 
#242      
NarrowJ
CoalCity said:
Petro played limited minutes not only because Wagler was a gem but also because he was too small and weak to play any kind of defense, didn't put any observable effort into defense, couldn't rebound, loafed back on defense after poor plays and was not a shooter. Fortunately his large NIL number was offset by Keaton's bargain price

He'll forever be remembered fondly for his pass to AJ for AJ's redeeming 3

Before I take your wager, what are your criteria for "a very productive season"?
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I saw effort, he just lacks size/ability to be a good defensive player at the POA.

My point was more so that the reason he didn't play wasn't due to a recruiting failure, but because of a huge recruiting win (Keaton Wagler was the primary reason he couldn't get on the floor, because lets be honest: you can't play Petro off ball because that isn't what he does... and he's also 6'2").

I think a very productive season for him in the Big East would be 10 points 4 assists. Personally, never expected more than that from him here anyway, and then voila... Keaton Wagler also happened.

But again, I was more pointing to the fact that he didn't play wasn't so much because we failed at recruiting a point guard. Every year you have to take shots on various guys in recruiting; there's not enough minutes for all 12 guys to play. Doesn't necessarily mean the bottom 4 are 'busts' every single season.
 
#243      
wc_illini
NarrowJ said:
I saw effort, he just lacks size/ability to be a good defensive player at the POA.

My point was more so that the reason he didn't play wasn't due to a recruiting failure, but because of a huge recruiting win (Keaton Wagler was the primary reason he couldn't get on the floor, because lets be honest: you can't play Petro off ball because that isn't what he does... and he's also 6'2").

I think a very productive season for him in the Big East would be 10 points 4 assists. Personally, never expected more than that from him here anyway, and then voila... Keaton Wagler also happened.

But again, I was more pointing to the fact that he didn't play wasn't so much because we failed at recruiting a point guard. Every year you have to take shots on various guys in recruiting; there's not enough minutes for all 12 guys to play. Doesn't necessarily mean the bottom 4 are 'busts' every single season.
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0 minutes against Wisconsin in OT with 6 guys is tough to pin just on Wagler (who sat for just 36 seconds) being a surprise. Or when Wagler went out for 5 minutes with the shoulder injury with us up 19 against UCLA (then played through the injury the rest of the game).

If he was good (and if he didn't shut down mentally), I'd think the staff would've tried to have him ready.
 
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#244      
NarrowJ
wc_illini said:
0 minutes against Wisconsin in OT with 6 guys is tough to pin just on Wagler (who sat for just 36 seconds) being a surprise. Or when Wagler went out for 5 minutes with the shoulder injury with us up 19 against UCLA.

If he was good (and if he didn't shut down mentally), I'd think the staff would've tried to have him ready.
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Trying to find proper reaction to why he didn't play in 2 games... hmm... yeah no idea? Against Wisconsin I think you're still saying "can he play off the ball?" and then idk about the 5 minutes vs UCLA. Difficult for me to base any sort of opinion on a 5 minute sample of a 1,480 minute season (37 gms x 40 mins).

"If he was good" -- lol lets not go crazy here, he was MVP candidate in a league that brought us Tomi/Mirk.
 
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#245      
blackdog
NarrowJ said:
I saw effort, he just lacks size/ability to be a good defensive player at the POA.

My point was more so that the reason he didn't play wasn't due to a recruiting failure, but because of a huge recruiting win (Keaton Wagler was the primary reason he couldn't get on the floor, because lets be honest: you can't play Petro off ball because that isn't what he does... and he's also 6'2").

I think a very productive season for him in the Big East would be 10 points 4 assists. Personally, never expected more than that from him here anyway, and then voila... Keaton Wagler also happened.

But again, I was more pointing to the fact that he didn't play wasn't so much because we failed at recruiting a point guard. Every year you have to take shots on various guys in recruiting; there's not enough minutes for all 12 guys to play. Doesn't necessarily mean the bottom 4 are 'busts' every single season.
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I cant disagree more about his effort. He had the awareness of a peanut and consistently seemed to have no idea where he was supposed to be defensively. Brad has played bad defenders before but he wont play guys who dont know what they should be doing.
 
#246      
RollChief
blackdog said:
I cant disagree more about his effort. He had the awareness of a peanut and consistently seemed to have no idea where he was supposed to be defensively. Brad has played bad defenders before but he wont play guys who dont know what they should be doing.
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I thought I had recalled there being a pretty big language barrier when he got to campus. That, paired with getting in late, and then getting injured, probably had a lot to do with him struggling to fit into the defense schematically.

I think the new defense is a bit more complex than it's given credit for because it seemed like there was definitely a learning curve for Y1 guys. I remember that especially early on there was a lot of times where it seemed like Andrej was out of place, but he could make up for it with his size and athleticism.
 
#247      
wc_illini
NarrowJ said:
Trying to find proper reaction to why he didn't play in 2 games... hmm... yeah no idea? Against Wisconsin I think you're still saying "can he play off the ball?" and then idk about the 5 minutes vs UCLA. Hard for me to have any sort of opinion based on 5 minutes.
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We paid him good money to play a key role, so my threshold for "miss" is much higher than for someone like Lee.

If he was "good" but merely overshadowed, he would have played more than 1.4mpg (including 13 DNPs) in the 22 games after Jan 8, especially given the injuries and OT games we had. That suggests the staff didn't think very much of his ability to contribute.

And I can't blame all that on his visa and injury issues at the beginning of the season- I'd think the staff would get him on the floor more (especially in the games Bos missed) if they thought he had potential to get up to speed. So unless he was battling a secret injury all year, it's hard not to call that a miss.
 
#248      
NarrowJ
blackdog said:
I cant disagree more about his effort. He had the awareness of a peanut and consistently seemed to have no idea where he was supposed to be defensively. Brad has played bad defenders before but he wont play guys who dont know what they should be doing.
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I couldn't identify a ton of effort issues myself, but some of the heated discussions on the bench in a couple early games made it obvious there was frustration mounting. I'll cede on effort here. So issues were maybe effort, buy-in, etcetera and not lack of ability? I bet it was difficult to come in expecting to basically be the point guard of a top 15 preseason D1 college team and then some skinny 17 year old 3 star recruit is actually a top 5 pick in disguise.

Just been difficult for me to wrap my head around this annual discussion where the bottom half of the roster are all recruiting busts.

If he'd have came in, played 30 minutes per game at PG and the team finished 18-14 then I'd call him a bust. I think this is different.
 
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#250      
NarrowJ
wc_illini said:
We paid him good money to play a key role, so my threshold for "miss" is much higher than for someone like Lee.

If he was "good" but merely overshadowed, he would have played more than 1.4mpg (including 13 DNPs) in the 22 games after Jan 8, especially given the injuries and OT games we had. That suggests the staff didn't think very much of his ability to contribute.

And I can't blame all that on his visa and injury issues at the beginning of the season- I'd think the staff would get him on the floor more (especially in the games Bos missed) if they thought he had potential to get up to speed. So unless he was battling a secret injury all year, it's hard not to call that a miss.
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What would you have done differently? Play Boswell and Petrovic at the 1/2 spots, move Keaton to the 3, and Andrej/Jake come off the bench

So the riddle here is how do you get him on the floor with Wagler and Boswell? He wasn't supplanting either of those two players, and that doesn't mean he isn't a good basketball player (verbatim what you stated). A 5 minute stretch vs UCLA doesn't answer that question. There's a much larger sample size of him playing in EuroLeague averaging 14 & 7 that proves otherwise.

wc_illini said:
Part of building a good program is having enough talent to absorb the inevitable busts, so I don't see why it's contentious to call them that.
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Calling a player a bust is literally a headline example of a contentious comment LOL.
 
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