Indiana 78, Illinois 68 POSTGAME

#51      

pruman91

pruman91
Paducah, Ky
pruman91
Another game, another loss. All to familiar pattern of the loss. get out and be competitive for a while then the dreaded scoring drought with no answer or go to guy, other than TF or LB....Overplaying on D and numerous dribble drives to the basket or lob passes for dunks....Clawing our way back into the game but never getting the lead and a 10-20 pt loss....

We have too many deficiencies to be able to weather the scoring drought that happens every damn game...we overplay on D trying to stop drives to the basket but when we give up penetration we don't have the help D to stop the layups by our opponent....

We are 4-5 player upgrades away from even being competitive enough to expect staying in games with the hope of actually winning...Most of our players are playing out of position or not athletic enough to play in the B1G at a level we need to regain our position in the upper tier....

I'll continue supporting the team, but common sense tells me this will be an uphill struggle taking 2-4 years before we see a tourney team. Too many glaring holes on the team that only rebuilding the roster will make this crap change...

JMHO
 
#52      

Deleted member 631370

D
Guest
Deleted member 631370
pruman91 said:
Another game, another loss. All to familiar pattern of the loss. get out and be competitive for a while then the dreaded scoring drought with no answer or go to guy, other than TF or LB....Overplaying on D and numerous dribble drives to the basket or lob passes for dunks....Clawing our way back into the game but never getting the lead and a 10-20 pt loss....

We have too many deficiencies to be able to weather the scoring drought that happens every damn game...we overplay on D trying to stop drives to the basket but when we give up penetration we don't have the help D to stop the layups by our opponent....

We are 4-5 player upgrades away from even being competitive enough to expect staying in games with the hope of actually winning...Most of our players are playing out of position or not athletic enough to play in the B1G at a level we need to regain our position in the upper tier....

I'll continue supporting the team, but common sense tells me this will be an uphill struggle taking 2-4 years before we see a tourney team. Too many glaring holes on the team that only rebuilding the roster will make this crap change...

JMHO
Click to expand...


I don't know if we're 4 years away from being a tourney team (because I'm not sure Underwood will survive 4 straight failures to make a tournament), but I do think we are more than merely a rim protector or two away from being good.

That is probably the most important position of need. But we desperately need shooters. We desperately need more athleticism. We desperately need a consistent scoring option at the 2/3 position.

We have a ways to go.
 
#53      

EllderIlliniFan

EllderIlliniFan
EllderIlliniFan
Everyone on this board is feeling sorry for themselves because the team is not producing up to their expectations (ME INCLUDED). However, imagine what the players are feeling. When I think about how I would react to the frustration of long periods of going scoreless and 25 seconds of working my butt off on defense only to watch a dunk, would I degenerate into quitting or arguing and blaming my teammates? When I consider how the team might react to such frustration, I am amazed that they summon the energy to fight almost every game. If you are looking for something positive about the team and the way they are being coached think about how you would react if you were a player going thru what they are going thru. If they continue their fight against Purdue and MSU even in losing, they deserve some praise for the character to continue to fight. This may be building the culture that will eventually lead to results that are more satisfying to all of us.
 
#54      

rtbritt

rtbritt
rtbritt
Verified Insider said:
I don't know if we're 4 years away from being a tourney team (because I'm not sure Underwood will survive 4 straight failures to make a tournament), but I do think we are more than merely a rim protector or two away from being good.

That is probably the most important position of need. But we desperately need shooters. We desperately need more athleticism. We desperately need a consistent scoring option at the 2/3 position.

We have a ways to go.
Click to expand...

Obviously the losses pile up and take a toll on the fanbase, but we have only been "bad" a few times this year. We have consistently played close games with good teams.

There were definitely ugly stretches (long, long stretches) and some ugly overall games, but we have shown in many games that we have a chance to be good with these players.

I would say if we had some more shooting, we'd be right there in the conversation of making the tourney. Maybe if Finke and Alstork weren't horrible shooters this year, it'd be a different story.

So everyone is tired of the losses piling up and now we need to blow it all up and need a whole new roster before we compete, but a few weeks ago, we were going to be GOOD next year because we swap Ayo for Alstork.

I will say I agree with your points that to be a really good team, we could use more athleticism, post players, shot blockers, and shooting, but to be a team capable of making the tourney, I don't think we have to have all that.
 
#55      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
Loved the overall effort and the play of Leron. I think if Finke and Williams had been available we might have won this one. Having Finke would have allowed Underwood to use Greg somewhat differently, which might have meant Indiana wouldn't have been in the bonus so quickly in second half (Alstork's fouls run amok routine didn't help either). And having DaMonte might have helped with maintaining the defensive intensity. Certainly a big step up from the Penn St. Let's hope they can have the same kind of effort against Nebraska and get a win Sunday.
 
#56      

rtbritt

rtbritt
rtbritt
SeattleSlim said:
There's really no excuse for anyone playing basketball at this level to shoot less than 90% from the line. Using the box on the backboard as a target will reward you with a point almost every time. Don't believe me? Go out and try it. After a couple hundred throws you'll find it's hard to miss. The physics of the force, angles, etc., support this technique.

Problem is, who wants to be known as the player who banks in his/her free throws? Doesn't look cool, right? No ripping swoooooosh as the ball goes through the net.

It does work, though, and is pretty easy to teach. Brad, are you paying attention?
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that 90% is restricted to the very elite free throw shooters in NBA history.
 
#57      

LBZ

L
LBZ
rtbritt said:
Except for the fact that 90% is restricted to the very elite free throw shooters in NBA history.
Click to expand...

I think SeattleSlim means 90% if guys would use the backboard. I don't care if they use the backboard, swish them or take granny shots. So long as they make them. :thumb:
 
#58      

Illiniguy13

Illiniguy13
Illiniguy13
SeattleSlim said:
There's really no excuse for anyone playing basketball at this level to shoot less than 90% from the line. Using the box on the backboard as a target will reward you with a point almost every time. Don't believe me? Go out and try it. After a couple hundred throws you'll find it's hard to miss. The physics of the force, angles, etc., support this technique.

Problem is, who wants to be known as the player who banks in his/her free throws? Doesn't look cool, right? No ripping swoooooosh as the ball goes through the net.

It does work, though, and is pretty easy to teach. Brad, are you paying attention?
Click to expand...

LOL. I dare you to go out and try it. See what happens.
 
#59      

rtbritt

rtbritt
rtbritt
LBZ said:
I think SeattleSlim means 90% if guys would use the backboard. I don't care if they use the backboard, swish them or take granny shots. So long as they make them. :thumb:
Click to expand...

And I would venture to say he is wrong! :) I would guess MOST competitors would agree with you...we'll shoot any way that we can make them. From the free throw line, you aren't likely to hit that square on the backboard 90% of the time exactly right to make it into the hoop.
 
#60      

bleedsorangenblue

bleedsorangenblue
C-U
bleedsorangenblue
Less gloom and doom in here than I would have thought. Glad to see that most are seeing some progress and are responding to the fight shown by this team. As painful as this season has been, I believe in Underwood and the direction he is taking this team. There is going to be some fun basketball ahead for Illini nation.
 
#61      

illini62707

I
illini62707
Just because a person doesn't think the defense is playing well doesn't mean they are anti Underwood. Teams have been shooting over 50% from 2 this year all too often! And I'm well aware of the big man situation.
Sometimes you have to win with what you have. This "BIG MAN" we're waiting for may not come next year or the year after that. I hope "he" does.
This team rebounded the heck out of the ball for a lot of the year, because they were going hard for the boards. Even Underwood commented they lost that edge.
So, what I'm saying is you can make up fro some deficiencies on defense with toughness and determination. 59% is just too much to overcome.
I'm all for Underwood, I like the effort the team gives as a whole and have seen some encouraging play at times. And I don't think the team is as deficient as some think. Too many close games for me to believe that. But you gotta win some games with what got in order to get who you want sometimes.
 
#62      

illinifaninwi

I
DeForest, Wisconsin
illinifaninwi
illini62707 said:
Just because a person doesn't think the defense is playing well doesn't mean they are anti Underwood. Teams have been shooting over 50% from 2 this year all too often! And I'm well aware of the big man situation.
Sometimes you have to win with what you have. This "BIG MAN" we're waiting for may not come next year or the year after that. I hope "he" does.
This team rebounded the heck out of the ball for a lot of the year, because they were going hard for the boards. Even Underwood commented they lost that edge.
So, what I'm saying is you can make up fro some deficiencies on defense with toughness and determination. 59% is just too much to overcome.
I'm all for Underwood, I like the effort the team gives as a whole and have seen some encouraging play at times. And I don't think the team is as deficient as some think. Too many close games for me to believe that. But you gotta win some games with what got in order to get who you want sometimes.
Click to expand...

The common theme of the last two postgame threads in particular is that Brad Underwood has done a bad job this season. "Win with what you have" is a great, positive thought that more often than not fails when you're clearly outclassed in ability. Illinois is short, slow-footed, and lacks overall athleticism vital to winning games in the Big Ten. This is magnified even more so given the fact that the Illini shoot poorly.

Players make a team go. My only concern thus far is recruiting. Ayo is a great get. However, Underwood and his staff must overhaul the roster in a quick manner or the Illini will be staring at the same fate again in the coming years.
 
#63      

RML

R
RML
rtbritt said:
Except for the fact that 90% is restricted to the very elite free throw shooters in NBA history.
Click to expand...



I think you misunderstood the rest of his post. He is advocating having the guys bank in their shots. He would say that the reason that only elite players shoot 90% is because they refuse to look goofy, banking in their shots.
 
#64      

bobbob

B
bobbob
SeattleSlim said:
Thanks, RML. You get it. The rest ... not so much.

And the challenge to the rest of you ... if you don't believe it, go out and try it (with effort). You'll soon believe.
Click to expand...

Post a youtube clip of you hitting 90 out of 100 and I'll try.
 
#65      

rtbritt

rtbritt
rtbritt
RML said:
I think you misunderstood the rest of his post. He is advocating having the guys bank in their shots. He would say that the reason that only elite players shoot 90% is because they refuse to look goofy, banking in their shots.
Click to expand...

SeattleSlim said:
It's fairly easy to hit that box almost 100% of the time. That's what it's there for. Hitting it takes a lot of the force out of the throw ... and the ball simply drops in. Again, if you think this is hooey, go out and try it. After a couple hundred legitimate attempts you'll believe.

The offense rests.
Click to expand...

bobbob said:
Post a youtube clip of you hitting 90 out of 100 and I'll try.
Click to expand...

I completely understood it, which is why I suggested if it was that easy, many would do it, regardless of how they look.....they are the ultimate competitors.

I do not believe it is as simple as you suggest to make 90% in this manner, and I'll second what bobbob says...let's see you do this.
 
#66      

Illini_1979

Illini_1979
Oregon
Illini_1979
SeattleSlim said:
Thanks, RML. You get it. The rest ... not so much.

And the challenge to the rest of you ... if you don't believe it, go out and try it (with effort). You'll soon believe.
Click to expand...

Here's an excellent example...

[YOUTUBE]cpqTHzvA5DI[/YOUTUBE]
 
#67      

Illini B-Ball Fan

Illini B-Ball Fan
Illini B-Ball Fan
Ok then, now that we're warmed up at the free throw line, last night's stats were pretty bad considering only a 10-point loss. The good: fewer TO's and more steals than IU; Leron, great game again; keep up the good work, Trent. The bad: worse FG%, 3-FG%, FT%, fewer rebounds assists, and blocks along with more PF's. Hope Damonte didn't reinjure his leg that had the ACL tear. Any updates on either him or Finke today?

http://fightingillini.com/documents/2018/2/14/G27_ILL_IND_Box_Score.pdf
 
#68      

Future Walk-On

Future Walk-On
Peoria, IL
Future Walk-On
KrushCow31 said:
Some people just don't want to sit behind a screen for 2 hours and watch bad basketball. I tune in for games when I can, but it currently isn't a priority. That doesn't mean I don't like discussing things, watching highlights, posting on here, and following the team. Not watching the game isn't "not getting behind a first year coach". It's just having more important priorities.
Click to expand...

Piggy backing on this quote (not directed at anyone personally).....I have experience with this being a Bradley fan/alumni ;). We are nearly 30 games into the season, it is not going to drastically change. You have to find elements of the team that excite you or you can focus on for your own personal enjoyment. For me this is Trent Frazier especially, the other freshman, and watching Leron anticipating a monster senior season. If you can't then atleast try to stay somewhat positive. As said, this is year 1, we all need to chill a touch and just accept the rebuild. The players giving 100% effort should be praised. The players who aren't, won't be around long anyways.

You just have to keep tricking yourself into thinking it will get better, and maybe it eventually will.
 
#69      

Illiniguy13

Illiniguy13
Illiniguy13
SeattleSlim said:
Jordan gets it. Not sure why some of you don't. It's physics.
Click to expand...

You're oversimplifying it so much. The average player doesn't shoot many bank shots compared to the thousands and thousands of shots they practice w/o the backboard. I'm sure plenty of players may find it to be unnatural. It doesn't matter how much it makes sense by the law of physics; if it feels unnatural, that all goes out the window. Muscle memory is important here. Players are taught to shoot with a follow-through wrist snap aiming for the middle of the net. Also, just because a player might make 90% of free throws in a closed gym banking it in, that same player may not make those shots when 15,000 fans are yelling hoping they miss with a bunch of rowdy students intentionally distracting the shooter from the stands. Not to mention the pressure of hitting those shots when they matter.
 
#70      

EllderIlliniFan

EllderIlliniFan
EllderIlliniFan
SeattleSlim said:
There's really no excuse for anyone playing basketball at this level to shoot less than 90% from the line. Using the box on the backboard as a target will reward you with a point almost every time. Don't believe me? Go out and try it. After a couple hundred throws you'll find it's hard to miss. The physics of the force, angles, etc., support this technique.

Problem is, who wants to be known as the player who banks in his/her free throws? Doesn't look cool, right? No ripping swoooooosh as the ball goes through the net.

It does work, though, and is pretty easy to teach. Brad, are you paying attention?
Click to expand...

The real problem is shooting when they mean something when fatigue is starting to set in. I am sure that many of them make more than 80% in practice. (20 of 25 at the end of the practice). But it is much different in a game situation with the game on the line.
 
#71      

LBZ

L
LBZ
EllderIlliniFan said:
The real problem is shooting when they mean something when fatigue is starting to set in. I am sure that many of them make more than 80% in practice. (20 of 25 at the end of the practice). But it is much different in a game situation with the game on the line.
Click to expand...

Agree about the stress during the game. But Underwood did mention they were having them shoot ft's in practice when they were tired & doing it at various times. Just trying to change things up. But as you said, game situations are always more difficult. This is where confidence/swagger becomes a game changing thing.
 
#75      

Leelnd

L
Leelnd
There is some truth to Slim's claim. I remember seeing this study a few years ago.

https://www.wired.com/2011/03/physics-basketball-shots/

This study shows how a bank shot is more efficient depending on your location/distance from the basket. It was done based on simulations. I think it shows for a free throw that a direct show is still better.