Indiana 96, Illinois 80 POSTGAME

Ken · Jan 8, 2017

At this point I would start

TJL
DJ
MH
Kipper
MM

He shouldve started TJL from day one and TJL would be much further along and the entire team would better for it.

I know the pressure is on to win now but the way he is going about trying to win now simply delay him getting fired by 8 months.

You start that 5 I posted and everyone else is in a supporting role but you use that 5 to re-establish the style of play you want to play not only now but next year .

Watching this team yesterday and it was sad how they didnt even seem to know how to play with an actual PG.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jan 8, 2017

LurkLongandProsper said:
Ideally we wouldn't need to make him average more than 28 (to allow some bench guys minutes and keep Malcolm fresher)

I want my best player on the court as much as possible. He can rest after the season is over.

miggytorres · Jan 8, 2017

Ken said:
At this point I would start

TJL
DJ
MH
Kipper
MM

He shouldve started TJL from day one and TJL would be much further along and the entire team would better for it.

I know the pressure is on to win now but the way he is going about trying to win now simply delay him getting fired by 8 months.

You start that 5 I posted and everyone else is in a supporting role but you use that 5 to re-establish the style of play you want to play not only now but next year .

Watching this team yesterday and it was sad how they didnt even seem to know how to play with an actual PG.

None of these lineups matter too much. They can alter the lineup all they want. Ultimately, it's been the same coaching staff since Groce arrived. He is sub-500 in conference play (at least the last three years) and his teams don't seem in position or better prepared than their opponents. It's a tired routine.

Hope4better · Jan 8, 2017

I've watched a lot of the Big Ten teams this year and from what I see there is no way this team finishes in the top 7 in the conference which they would have to make the dance and next year I'm afraid they will be fighting to stay out of last. There are a lot of good young teams this year.

PostersLastStand · Jan 8, 2017

I mulled over the game yesterday, because I do not like Indiana, going back to when Bob ruled the referees and bullied his way to many close games between Indiana and Illinois. Then the way he called Illinois cheaters and disrespected its fans, I hate to loose to Indiana, Period! Now to the mulling. I thought well if we improve defensively we are in the game, the I thought, if we were a little better offensively we would have had a chance. Then reality set in, its not an either or it is BOTH! We are just not good offensively or defensively. Its AAU ball at its finest.

JudsonFTS · Jan 8, 2017

TCTORNADO said:
The injury to Mike Thorne was far worse than any of us can imagine. He's a mere part of what he was for the 8 games in the 2015-2016 season. Sort of sad since he has put in so much work to get back to that level.

Good to know because it's not good.

That begs the question of why he is starting.....

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jan 8, 2017

LurkLongandProsper said:
I mean, when you're not particularly good, as is the case, I agree with this, but if we were seriously going to make runs later in the year, I'd rather be in positions to save our best player from fatigue (you are seeing more and more of this nowadays from NBA's top teams).

Unfortunately, you are correct current situation considered, we can't have MH off the floor because he's really the only one who can score off the dribble, etc. consistently for us.

NBA teams play 84 (?) games and are playing multiple games per week, so resting players makes sense there. Not really needed much in college unless it's someone like Abrams or Thorne who might benefit resting injured legs.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jan 8, 2017

LurkLongandProsper said:
Right, and I'm not advocating for sitting him on nights, that'd be ridiculous, but it isn't crazy to say it'd be positive for him in the back half of the season to play 28 mpg instead of 32. Especially with the physicality he's played with of late, and with the need to find a couple more minutes for DJW/KN off the bench.

This debate has been had on this board several times in the past, my take is that 4 mpg on the average isn't enough to make much of a difference to a 20something year old athlete. No need to have it again, we disagree.

Having said that, I wouldn't object to those minutes for DJW/KN just to get them some court time and maybe add some energy to the game.

MrOizo · Jan 8, 2017

LurkLongandProsper said:
I agree, I'd like to see Black/Finke play more 5 with Kipper/DJW at 4 rather than playing Thorne. I think it would HELP defensively, and be a near-wash on the glass, and also offer us some new looks offensively (Thorne offers a limited-version of what Mav can seeing as he's entirely useless in PnR and is a meh player on the block)

Absolutely, can't imagine why these changes haven't been tested out yet. Makes a lot of sense based on current production.

Hope4better · Jan 8, 2017

Seems to me when the ball goes in to Thorne it never comes out

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jan 8, 2017

Hope4better said:
Seems to me when the ball goes in to Thorne it never comes out

It does sometimes.

Unfortunately, the other team has it when that does happen.

Hope4better · Jan 8, 2017

Sad but true

618 Illini · Jan 8, 2017

Gave myself a day before commenting on the game. Couple thoughts:

-Started off slow...again. Won't have much success in the Big10, on the road, when you dig yourself a hole to start the game

-I really like TJL and Kippers energy off the bench. Offense moves better with TJL than Tate and the hustle plays increase when you have Kipper and Black out there

-Kipper had a nice steal and solid overall defense during our second half run

-Speaking of the run... I have never seen a coaching staff kill his own team's momentum more than Groce and Co. Crean was probably smiling and jumping for joy after Groce called his timeout for him. Additionally, this team regularly subs out players that are gelling to "keep our guys fresh" or "use our depth as a strength". The majority of successful teams have their key 6 or 7 guys and the starting 5 play major minutes. Except for injuries/foul trouble the best 5 players should play all the game.

Overall Groce's coaching strategy irks me primarily because he doesn't seem to have one.

TCTORNADO · Jan 8, 2017

I feel like yesterday was JCL's B1G coming out party. He played 36 minutes and was solid all the way around, including defense. Hopefully his games of inconsistency are gone.

TCTORNADO · Jan 8, 2017

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
It does sometimes.

Unfortunately, the other team has it when that does happen.

Good humor and true!!

CoalCity · Jan 8, 2017

618 Illini said:
Gave myself a day before commenting on the game. Couple thoughts:

-Started off slow...again. Won't have much success in the Big10, on the road, when you dig yourself a hole to start the game

-I really like TJL and Kippers energy off the bench. Offense moves better with TJL than Tate and the hustle plays increase when you have Kipper and Black out there

-Kipper had a nice steal and solid overall defense during our second half run

-Speaking of the run... I have never seen a coaching staff kill his own team's momentum more than Groce and Co. Crean was probably smiling and jumping for joy after Groce called his timeout for him. Additionally, this team regularly subs out players that are gelling to "keep our guys fresh" or "use our depth as a strength". The majority of successful teams have their key 6 or 7 guys and the starting 5 play major minutes. Except for injuries/foul trouble the best 5 players should play all the game.

Overall Groce's coaching strategy irks me primarily because he doesn't seem to have one.

Agree with all of your points, especially the timeout. When it was called I thought the officials called it for some reason like the shot clock or something. When they pointed to the Illinois bench I came off the chair yelling at the TV. What in God's name was he thinking? That was the end of the run and killed any possibility of completing the improbable comeback.

I cannot watch another buzzword and cliche filled presser after a beatdown but I hope someone asked what the reason was for a timeout in the middle of your own team's run.

BananaShampoo · Jan 8, 2017

TCTORNADO said:
I feel like yesterday was JCL's B1G coming out party. He played 36 minutes and was solid all the way around, including defense. Hopefully his games of inconsistency are gone.

Agree he was solid, but I'm still waiting for him to take over a game. It seems like he should be capable of that when other guys are having off nights. I seem to remember seeing that from Nunn a few times by the same stage in his college career. In a lot of ways he reminds me of DJ Richardson. Likes to take lots of 3s (and can make them), but streaky sometimes, hesitant to drive (but capable when he does), but not a guy to take over a game. JCL's defense isn't near what DJ's was, but offensively he has the tools to be better.

dmac279 · Jan 8, 2017

Hope4better said:
I've watched a lot of the Big Ten teams this year and from what I see there is no way this team finishes in the top 7 in the conference which they would have to make the dance and next year I'm afraid they will be fighting to stay out of last. There are a lot of good young teams this year.

I havq too, and don't see it either. We're out quicked out hustled and poorly coached. Verteran teams like ours with average talent should not play this poor. I was a big Gross supporter, can't see getting done rest of year, hope I'm wrong,

dmac279 · Jan 8, 2017

Hope4better said:
Seems to me when the ball goes in to Thorne it never comes out

He needs to sit period

Tevo · Jan 8, 2017

User Name said:
The team had a pregame practice on the court that morning. They do all the preparation then and stay loose in warmups. Doesn't mean they're not focused.

True, it's possible they are loose and quietly focused. But Groce also said in his postgame conference that he has to change something to avoid the slow starts. Maybe this team is one that needs to start ratcheting up the intensity earlier; maybe loose and quietly focused isn't the right way to go. When you go on the road against a Top 25 team that has lost three, maybe you don't just treat it like any other game with the same routine. Maybe you say, "Hey, they're going to come out fired up, we need a little something extra tonight."

I know, it's a lot of psychology and you can't be "amped up" all the time. But as Groce said, we need to do something different.

Ken · Jan 8, 2017

miggytorres said:
None of these lineups matter too much. They can alter the lineup all they want. Ultimately, it's been the same coaching staff since Groce arrived. He is sub-500 in conference play (at least the last three years) and his teams don't seem in position or better prepared than their opponents. It's a tired routine.

The lineups do matter because this team havent had a real PG in years there are tons of bad habits brought on by them being forced too far outside their wheelhouse early on .

You also have quite a few upperclassmen on this team that are simply tainted by losing so you have to give the young guys ample minutes before they succumb to it.

If you are young guy on this team the past 18 months what you have learned is that when you are a upperclassmen you are gonna play no matter what.

Putting out a lineup of TA,MH,JCL,Black,Thorne and then expecting a different outcome from what we have seen the past 3-4 years is crazy because there was no evidence to support that another year of small SG or combo guards running the team would create the success we were looking for .

The Dave · Jan 9, 2017

jrichisamazing said:
Everyone keeps saying to play Lucas more, but today really showed the dilemma Groce has at PG. Lucas makes some really good plays that Tate doesn't make, but he also makes some bad plays that Tate doesn't make. Turnovers leading to fast break points, missed FT's, 5 sec call, etc.

I can't help but think that is exactly Groce's thinking. Tate has way more up-side, but way more down-side too. With Tate he knows exactly what he's getting. Lower ceiling, higher floor.

UrbanaIsTheShiz · Jan 9, 2017

BananaShampoo said:
Agree he was solid, but I'm still waiting for him to take over a game. It seems like he should be capable of that when other guys are having off nights. I seem to remember seeing that from Nunn a few times by the same stage in his college career. In a lot of ways he reminds me of DJ Richardson. Likes to take lots of 3s (and can make them), but streaky sometimes, hesitant to drive (but capable when he does), but not a guy to take over a game. JCL's defense isn't near what DJ's was, but offensively he has the tools to be better.

I feel like Jalen is rounding out his game a bit more this year, on both sides of the ball, and next year he will be really really good, like Luther's junior year.

The Dave · Jan 9, 2017

TCTORNADO said:
I feel like yesterday was JCL's B1G coming out party. He played 36 minutes and was solid all the way around, including defense. Hopefully his games of inconsistency are gone.

I want to know why they're having so much problems screening JCL open. He had to work for a lot of his shots against IND. It was nice to see he could do it, but it would be better if we could set some decent screens and get him wide-open 3's on occasion.

I didn't watch close enough to see why JB Jr was getting so many open shots, but that's what JCL needs. It may have been offensive execution on their part or poor defense on ours....

Ulysses Everett McGill · Jan 9, 2017

TCTORNADO said:
I feel like yesterday was JCL's B1G coming out party. He played 36 minutes and was solid all the way around, including defense. Hopefully his games of inconsistency are gone.

Just one game. Need consistent non-inconsistency. Inter games as much as intra. Still, a reasonable hope for things to click on both ends halfway through his 2nd season now.

Indiana 96, Illinois 80 POSTGAME

Captain 'Paign