John Groce at Illinois

Cubby Blue · Jan 21, 2016

bleedsorangenblue said:
For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone would want to hire coaches without coaching experience at this time regardless of whether or not they bleed orange and blue. It might be different if the program were cruising along at a high level and there was luxury in doing so. If what is needed is someone who can boost the program in fundamental ways, hiring someone like a Robert Smith would make a whole lot more sense.

I am not saying that this is what should be done but I just see hiring ex-Illini because of their connection to the program as being too risky. The only one really worth considering would be Roger Powell and I don't think his credentials to be strong enough at this point, though I could be wrong in this regard. If this program needs some change at the coaching level, grasping at straws is not the way to go about it.

Um, Roger's got more credentials than Robert Smith. Smith has no college experience. Roger does.

Ransom Stoddard · Jan 21, 2016

bleedsorangenblue said:
For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone would want to hire coaches without coaching experience at this time regardless of whether or not they bleed orange and blue. It might be different if the program were cruising along at a high level and there was luxury in doing so. If what is needed is someone who can boost the program in fundamental ways, hiring someone like a Robert Smith would make a whole lot more sense.

I am not saying that this is what should be done but I just see hiring ex-Illini because of their connection to the program as being too risky. The only one really worth considering would be Roger Powell and I don't think his credentials to be strong enough at this point, though I could be wrong in this regard. If this program needs some change at the coaching level, grasping at straws is not the way to go about it.

Great post. I honestly can't think of any great coaches at a P5 program who played for the same school, particularly who were great players for that school. The Coach K tree will likely provide an exception, but the most obvious counter to all of that is Doherty at UNC.

Cubby Blue · Jan 21, 2016

Ransom Stoddard said:
Great post. I honestly can't think of any great coaches at a P5 program who played for the same school, particularly who were great players for that school. The Coach K tree will likely provide an exception, but the most obvious counter to all of that is Doherty at UNC.

Well, it's not a power 5, but the guy many on here want fits that exact same criteria.....

Soxfreak64 · Jan 21, 2016

I don't have a clue where the Jerrance love comes from. As an assistant coach, he's recruited the same quality of players Groce recruited as an asst. at OSU. He has no HC experience, unlike Groce.

People rip on Groce for being a poor/unproven X's and O's guy, stating his most attractive quality was his recruiting chops. Those same folks pine for a good COACH.

Was I unknowingly comatose for 5 years when Jerrance Howard was a head coach, renowned for X's and O's, or bringing Top5 recruits to a non blue-blood?

Foggy Notion · Jan 21, 2016

Ransom Stoddard said:
Great post. I honestly can't think of any great coaches at a P5 program who played for the same school, particularly who were great players for that school. The Coach K tree will likely provide an exception, but the most obvious counter to all of that is Doherty at UNC.

Roy Williams at UNC.

DudeAbides · Jan 21, 2016

MoIlliniMoProblems said:
I'd doubt Drew would come here. The guy turned down Iowa State, who was a pre-season top 10 team. Most likely more of a private school type coach where he can talk about his faith and face little media pressure.

What makes you think someone who would turn down Iowa State would also turn down Illinois? We might not be where we were in the early 00s, but we're still a better job than Iowa State.

ssanti13 · Jan 21, 2016

Soxfreak64 said:
I don't have a clue where the Jerrance love comes from. As an assistant coach, he's recruited the same quality of players Groce recruited as an asst. at OSU. He has no HC experience, unlike Groce.

People rip on Groce for being a poor/unproven X's and O's guy, stating his most attractive quality was his recruiting chops. Those same folks pine for a good COACH.

Was I unknowingly comatose for 5 years when Jerrance Howard was a head coach, renowned for X's and O's, or bringing Top5 recruits to a non blue-blood?

I'm not sure how true this is, but I've been hearing a big reason some people want a Jerrance Howard hire is because he's the one recruiting the 2017 targets like Tilmon and Damonte Williams. Even if this is true, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll follow Howard here. I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Caris Levert had given a verbal commitment to Groce at Ohio before Groce took the job here. I think Groce had hopes of Levert following him to Champaign and we sure know that didn't happen.

DudeAbides · Jan 21, 2016

Soxfreak64 said:
I don't have a clue where the Jerrance love comes from. As an assistant coach, he's recruited the same quality of players Groce recruited as an asst. at OSU. He has no HC experience, unlike Groce.

People rip on Groce for being a poor/unproven X's and O's guy, stating his most attractive quality was his recruiting chops. Those same folks pine for a good COACH.

Was I unknowingly comatose for 5 years when Jerrance Howard was a head coach, renowned for X's and O's, or bringing Top5 recruits to a non blue-blood?

:huh:

Groce was lead recruiter on the Oden/Conley/Cook/Lighty class. That class was one of the best in history.

westms77 · Jan 21, 2016

sigint said:
For me, I don't think it ties in directly with the results on the court in terms of an NIT bid or lack thereof. What this team needs to do for Groce to deserve another year, IMO, is to start playing like a good team that just doesn't have the horses to be successful. The injuries have made sure that the results would be less than ideal, but the injury excuse doesn't apply to the players on the court. There should at least be some flashes here and there each game of the team that could have been, and they just aren't there most nights.

Specifically, I want to see the movement and shot selection on offense and the intensity on defense that we saw in the Purdue game. It's not always going to be pretty: this team has taken a lot of hits from injuries. However, it shouldn't be jacking up long contested jumpers 5 seconds into the shot clock. If we shoot a long contested jumper because we weren't able to find a better shot with our better players out, so be it. Similarly on defense, we should be able to play with intensity and focus no matter who's on the floor.

Find a way to fix these issues and specific wins and losses don't really matter to me.

Any improvement would be a plus...The only tournament we're going to be in is the B1G....Haven't seen much player development under Groce

ILL in IA · Jan 21, 2016

Ransom Stoddard said:
Great post. I honestly can't think of any great coaches at a P5 program who played for the same school, particularly who were great players for that school. The Coach K tree will likely provide an exception, but the most obvious counter to all of that is Doherty at UNC.

Sorry if posted but Kevin Ollie at UConn and Fred at Iowa State did ok. Neither one was a head coach prior to taking the HC job at said alma mater. The real question is, are these guys a blue print to follow or just the exception to the rule

Ransom Stoddard · Jan 21, 2016

Foggy Notion said:
Roy Williams at UNC.

Roy didn't play varsity ball, but I think that supports my point. Roy was always going to be a coach, not a player, and he had a lengthy career as an assistant and HC before getting the UNC job.

Illinoy · Jan 21, 2016

ssanti13 said:
I'm not sure how true this is, but I've been hearing a big reason some people want a Jerrance Howard hire is because he's the one recruiting the 2017 targets like Tilmon and Damonte Williams. Even if this is true, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll follow Howard here. I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Caris Levert had given a verbal commitment to Groce at Ohio before Groce took the job here. I think Groce had hopes of Levert following him to Champaign and we sure know that didn't happen.

Actually it was me that mentioned bringing in a guy that was already recruiting these guys but I mentioned Kurt Townsend at Kansas (who still trains pros in the off-season) and maybe Kenny Payne from Kentucky because he coaches bigs and he's well connected to recruiting basins throughout the country.

Also, Caris wanted to follow Groce but Groce didn't want to strip Ohio of "resources," more than necessary.

Illini B-Ball Fan · Jan 21, 2016

JoseyWales83 said:
I spoke to Dee about it a while ago and he said basically if they ask he will do it but he is not campaigning for the job. Asked about recruiting and said that DWill and him didnt get anything and thinks its a joke that players at other schools are playing dirty. Said that if you want to come to Illinois it's because you want to be here not because someone is forcing you or paying you to come. You could feel the passion that he has for Illinois when he talks and would just tear it up on the recruiting trail.

That's good to know about Dee since there are bigger and better things for him in the future here at Illinois. I would assume he will not stay in his present position for a long time, but will hopefully be promoted to an assistant coach in less than a year where he can use his skills and abilities to bring the program back to respectability.

On another note, hopefully AJ will come around (along with the other freshmen) and work through their freshman orientation in the B1G with a positive outcome before the year's end. I know Rob Jordan has not made comments to various posts since the season started, but it would be interesting to hear his perspective regarding his son's play, this season's team, and the coaching staff (which he may stay neutral).

Ransom Stoddard · Jan 21, 2016

DudeAbides said:
What makes you think someone who would turn down Iowa State would also turn down Illinois? We might not be where we were in the early 00s, but we're still a better job than Iowa State.

I can't agree there. Iowa State has made it to the round of 32 or further in the dance each of the last 4 seasons. Yes, they had bad bad years under McDermott, but Hoiberg turned it around and that is a plum program with pretty good history. 5 NCAA appearances in the 90s, 3 in the 2000's, and heading toward 5 straight right now.

bigruss22 · Jan 21, 2016

Illini B-Ball Fan said:
That's good to know about Dee since there are bigger and better things for him in the future here at Illinois. I would assume he will not stay in his present position for a long time, but will hopefully be promoted to an assistant coach in less than a year where he can use his skills and abilities to bring the program back to respectability.

On another note, hopefully AJ will come around (along with the other freshmen) and work through their freshman orientation in the B1G with a positive outcome before the year's end. I know Rob Jordan has not made comments to various posts since the season started, but it would be interesting to hear his perspective regarding his son's play, this season's team, and the coaching staff (which he may stay neutral).

As much as I would love to hear the inside scoop I really hope Mr. Jordan doesn't post anything in regards to that, just not a good idea to air dirty laundry.

BlindLoyalty · Jan 21, 2016

Ransom Stoddard said:
Great post. I honestly can't think of any great coaches at a P5 program who played for the same school, particularly who were great players for that school. The Coach K tree will likely provide an exception, but the most obvious counter to all of that is Doherty at UNC.

Off the top of my head here are some guys that played and then coached their alma mater at big schools. There are quite a few more examples at lesser schools and lower division programs.

Phog Allen at Kansas
Branch McCracken at Indiana
Joe B Hall at Kentucky
Guy Lewis at Houston
Frank McGuire at St. Johns
Fred Taylor at Ohio State
Gary Williams at Maryland
Eddie Sutton at OKSt
Jim Boeheim at Syracuse
Norm Stewart at Missouri
Lon Kruger at Kansas State
Bob Huggins at West Virginia

whovous · Jan 21, 2016

bigruss22 said:
As much as I would love to hear the inside scoop I really hope Mr. Jordan doesn't post anything in regards to that, just not a good idea to air dirty laundry.

This. I too wanna know, but he'd be nuts to come on the forum and talk right now.

Soxfreak64 · Jan 21, 2016

DudeAbides said:
:huh:

Groce was lead recruiter on the Oden/Conley/Cook/Lighty class. That class was one of the best in history.

That's my point. Jerrance's biggest + is supposedly his recruiting, but has he done better than Groce in that area?

mattcoldagelli · Jan 21, 2016

DudeAbides said:
What makes you think someone who would turn down Iowa State would also turn down Illinois? We might not be where we were in the early 00s, but we're still a better job than Iowa State.

Really?

I'd press you to lay out your argument as to how that could be the case. A program that has won at least 23 games every year since 2011 and most recently lost its coach to one of the NBA's marquee franchises is not just better than us, but significantly so.

ILL in IA · Jan 21, 2016

Illini B-Ball Fan said:
That's good to know about Dee since there are bigger and better things for him in the future here at Illinois. I would assume he will not stay in his present position for a long time, but will hopefully be promoted to an assistant coach in less than a year where he can use his skills and abilities to bring the program back to respectability.

On another note, hopefully AJ will come around (along with the other freshmen) and work through their freshman orientation in the B1G with a positive outcome before the year's end. I know Rob Jordan has not made comments to various posts since the season started, but it would be interesting to hear his perspective regarding his son's play, this season's team, and the coaching staff (which he may stay neutral).

I think Rob was pretty clear that his posting days were over as soon as AJ got on campus or shortly after that. Said he would lurk here and there but didn't want to find out if his skin was thick enough to listen to people complaining about the team or his son after a bad game. If your reading this Rob, don't go over to the Indiana post game thread.

ILL in IA · Jan 21, 2016

mattcoldagelli said:
Really?

I'd press you to lay out your argument as to how that could be the case. A program that has won at least 23 games every year since 2011 and most recently lost its coach to one of the NBA's marquee franchises is not just better than us, but significantly so.

Agree. Didn't know much about the school in Ames before I moved to Iowa. But go to a game at Hilton if you have a chance. Amazing place to see a game. That place can rock. And talk about a fan base that's all in on basketball. Lot of similarities between UI and ISU.

Cubby Blue · Jan 21, 2016

bigruss22 said:
As much as I would love to hear the inside scoop I really hope Mr. Jordan doesn't post anything in regards to that, just not a good idea to air dirty laundry.

Unless there is no dirty laundry. AJ may be having a blast, loving school, learning about life in the B1G. Kids want to win, but to them it is a journey. Rob may be having a blast too. Hope he is. :thumb:

HeartofaChampion · Jan 21, 2016

bleedsorangenblue said:
For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone would want to hire coaches without coaching experience at this time regardless of whether or not they bleed orange and blue. It might be different if the program were cruising along at a high level and there was luxury in doing so. If what is needed is someone who can boost the program in fundamental ways, hiring someone like a Robert Smith would make a whole lot more sense.

I am not saying that this is what should be done but I just see hiring ex-Illini because of their connection to the program as being too risky. The only one really worth considering would be Roger Powell and I don't think his credentials to be strong enough at this point, though I could be wrong in this regard. If this program needs some change at the coaching level, grasping at straws is not the way to go about it.

Dee would help with recruiting, particularly 1s and 2s in-state. We need a lot of help recruiting 1s in particular and need to land a 4- or 5-star 1 in 2017. Dee's hiring would also bring energy to the program and fan and donor base, especially if the team ends up at or near the bottom of the B1G this season. Of course, all of this is moot if the team bottoms out and JG is fired, but if not, bringing Dee on board would help his cause more than hurt it.

FeelYourPaign · Jan 21, 2016

SwarminOrange said:
From an office politics standpoint, say Groce hires Dee next year and then gets fired. New regime comes in and cleans house. We lose Dee. Happens in every company across the country when new leaders are hired.

If I were Dee, I would need some assurances that I have a safe spot somewhere in the administration if Groce were ever let go.

I have been having that same thought process since I started to read these "get Dee on staff" posts. Not that I disagree with getting Dee on staff, just agreeing with your point that there is risk to Dee and that needs to be addressed.

bleedsorangenblue · Jan 21, 2016

HeartofaChampion said:
Dee would help with recruiting, particularly 1s and 2s in-state. We need a lot of help recruiting 1s in particular and need to land a 4- or 5-star 1 in 2017. Dee's hiring would also bring energy to the program and fan and donor base, especially if the team ends up at or near the bottom of the B1G this season. Of course, all of this is moot if the team bottoms out and JG is fired, but if not, bringing Dee on board would help his cause more than hurt it.

This may all be true but what does Dee bring to team development? We really need strong coaches who can make the team fundamentally better. I really don't think recruiting is the main issue here.

John Groce at Illinois

Cubby Blue

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest

Cubby Blue

Soxfreak64

Foggy Notion

DudeAbides

ssanti13

DudeAbides

westms77

ILL in IA

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest

Illinoy

Illini B-Ball Fan

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest

bigruss22

BlindLoyalty

whovous

Soxfreak64

mattcoldagelli

ILL in IA

ILL in IA

Cubby Blue

HeartofaChampion

FeelYourPaign

bleedsorangenblue