Yeah, and they both have Simon C's lawyers number as well. :hand: No panic in the world would make Groce do that.
John Groce at Illinois
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Yeah, and they both have Simon C's lawyers number as well. :hand: No panic in the world would make Groce do that.
That's really demoralizing.
I hope whoever our AD is can recognize progress in the context of the program and take that into account when making a tough decision. Even more, I hope we get a #3 seed next season and make an Elite Eight run! We can hope, right?
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
After recruiting a Top 10 class for 2017
I think Lutz missed his chance to hop up to a bigger conference back when he was a hot candidate at Charlotte. He opted to stay there and ended up getting fired. I am not sure the recruiting at NCState can all be attributed to Lutz. Gottfried is the key there I think. He pulled in plenty of talent at Alabama when he was there. I would hope we could shoot higher than an NCState assistant who was discarded at a midmajor years ago.
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
Wake Forest too. That did not work out well for them at all.
He also is the winningest coach in Charlotte history to this day. The decline in record was completely correlated with Charlotte's move from CUSA to the A10. Pretty clearly a step up in conference.
We have seen that a charismatic HC recruiter is not enough to bring in high level talent alone. Like I said the entire NCSt staff has ties to Lutz instead of Gottfried.
I don't think he is a bad candidate if the home runs don't happen like last time should it come to that.
It's academic anyway. He's making a lot more than Groce and isn't coming here.
As for Miller, same thing. Not happening.
Just terrible cherry picking of the data. We only have 1 game where we had the complete team available and mostly healthy, that was vs UAB. And that's not counting Tracy of course.
And you've ignored the fact that Black has been out since early December.
Right, injuries are facts not excuses.
hooraybeer
- Pittsburgh, PA
I understand that it may be irrational at this point but I want Groce to get a do-or-die year next year and would be disappointed if he didnt
And his DRB% is over 25. Over 28 in conference play last season.
Can't believe I'm getting sucked into this dumb conversation again.
I'm not totally out on Lutz. I just would hope we could get a better candidate. I wouldn't be too upset if it ended up being him...if, like you say, we couldn't go with a home run hire (which seems to be the trend around the University).
I am not sure how anyone would feel about an assistant getting his first head coaching job at a Big Ten school, but if we were going to pick one and take that chance, I will throw out Lavall Jordan as a solid choice. I like that Butler/Beilein pedigree and he's a Midwestern guy.
There's plenty to criticize Groce about without resorting to things that simply aren't true and can be easily refuted.
I like Groce and how he represents the U of I, but...
I fear that Groce will survive this year, squeak into the tourney next year, land a mediocre 2017 class, and keep his job for a few more years. That's the worst case scenario for the long term. We'll just keep muddling along playing unwatchable basketball and having this discussion. There is no evidence whatsoever that he can lift this program.
The new AD should look at these last 10 games as the audition for the job. 1-9 or 2-8 should be enough to let him go. If we go 4-6 or 5-5 and the team looks better then firing him is clearly off the table.
I fear that Groce will survive this year, squeak into the tourney next year, land a mediocre 2017 class, and keep his job for a few more years. That's the worst case scenario for the long term. We'll just keep muddling along playing unwatchable basketball and having this discussion. There is no evidence whatsoever that he can lift this program.
The new AD should look at these last 10 games as the audition for the job. 1-9 or 2-8 should be enough to let him go. If we go 4-6 or 5-5 and the team looks better then firing him is clearly off the table.
Watching the football program should give you a more fertile imagination as to what "worst case scenario" actually means.
Sal Iacuzzo
- Yonkers, NY
That's my fear as well.
I don't realistically see how we can let Groce go this year. It's true that his coaching and general performance has been mediocre at best, but he wasn't exactly dealt the best hand. In my honest opinion, Groce is worth another year. If we don't have an excellent 2017 recruiting class, finish well in the top half of the B1G, AND make it to at least the round of 32 (preferably deeper) in the NCAA tournament, we should part ways. At the moment, there are bigger fish to fry and a football program that has been on life support for pretty much the last 30 years...
Excellent point. :thumb:
Why are you so angry about John Groce? I haven't seen a single person claim it is a foregone conclusion that he is gone. Plenty of us hope he will be, but we recognize it may not happen.
Here's a point of interest, Weber's top three recruits by RSCI were higher than any recruit Groce has landed, including JCL and Leron. So the facts do not bear out what you are claiming.
NIU. Judson is a super nice guy and a good person, but no way do I want him to be the head coach at Illinois.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
I can't help but draw comparisons between our current situation and when Mike Thomas was hired as AD back in August 2011. There was a lot of talk about firing Weber back then and, after the 2011-2012 season went into the tank, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion.
The difference this time around is that, best case scenario, the new AD will be hired sometime in February and will only be able to evaluate Groce for about a month, whereas Thomas was able to watch Weber in action for the whole season.
Unless the team just totally goes into the tank during February, I think the new AD will give Groce a pass for this season and use next year to evaluate him. However, as we saw with Weber's team, the pressure of playing for your coach's job can take a toll on a team and may be part of the reason for that season's collapse.
In any case, next season will be the key one for Groce, as the new AD will be looking for any excuse to fire Groce and bring in his own guy.
The difference this time around is that, best case scenario, the new AD will be hired sometime in February and will only be able to evaluate Groce for about a month, whereas Thomas was able to watch Weber in action for the whole season.
Unless the team just totally goes into the tank during February, I think the new AD will give Groce a pass for this season and use next year to evaluate him. However, as we saw with Weber's team, the pressure of playing for your coach's job can take a toll on a team and may be part of the reason for that season's collapse.
In any case, next season will be the key one for Groce, as the new AD will be looking for any excuse to fire Groce and bring in his own guy.
Coaches do not get evaluated for a month or even a few months. They get evaluated for their entire tenure, and decisions are based on performance during their entire tenure and outlook for the program. How long the AD is in place is of little importance in this case. The new AD will know where Groce stands as far as performance and outlook.
Finishing well in the top half shouldn't be that tall of a task. We lose Thorne and Lewis and then return everybody else plus we add TJL, a healthy Abrams, a healthy Leron Black, and we add Kipper in January.
Michigan State will be the pre-season favorite and will be loaded.
Michigan basically returns everybody except LaVert
Ohio State returns everybody so they will be a contender.
IU loses Yogi. Do they lose anybody else? Is anybody going pro early?
Purdue loses Hammons, Rapheal Davis, and Johnny Hill. Is Swanigan thinking about going pro?
Iowa loses Uthoff, Woodbury, Gessell, and Clemmons.
Maryland loses Sauilimon, Layman, Melo will go pro after this year, and Stone could possibly go pro after this year. Anybody else of significance?
I think NW loses Demps and Olah.
I know UNL loses Shields. Do they lose their Kansas transfer too? Anybody else of significance?
Wisconsin could be improved next year. Depends on their coaching situation. Will Nigel Hayes try to go pro?
Minny, PSU, and Rutgers will probably improve, but they still are who they are.
Our ceiling next year could be sneaking into the top 4 of the conference. Maybe we can reach that next year, maybe not. But bottom line, we aren't a bubble team next year. We will be in the tourney in 2017.
This has Diamond Stone as a projected top 13 pick. It also shows Mello high and Michigan State's Deyonta Davis high as well. Look for them both to go. Troy Williams is listed late second round and I think he may throw his hat in the ring as well.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft
http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft
Kipper can start playing once the 1st semester ends in Dec. So he should be able to suit up for the Braggin' Rights game.
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