Maybe it is just me, but I fail to see the love for Austin and O'Mara.
John Groce at Illinois
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Maybe it is just me, but I fail to see the love for Austin and O'Mara.
We're delving into the realm of the hypothetical, sure. But I'm also just focusing on obvious in-state guys who were the subject of media speculation with Illinois. There could be all kinds of others.
The facts are that of the 10 transfers Groce has brought into the program in his four years, their current combined contribution to this season's team is literally below zero, apologies to Khalid Lewis who is trying his best. There's an unlucky injury that contributes to that, sure, but 10 transfers for one Mike Thorne isn't a great tradeoff either way.
Someone wondered about the love for Larry Austin, which is a good point considering he's just a bit player for Xavier of no particular renown. But he's just a sophomore on a nationally elite team. Our current starting PG was a bit player of no particular renown on a below .500 mid-major as a fourth-year junior. There's no question Austin makes us better, and that's the least accomplished guy on that list.
mattcoldagelli
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Hard to draw hard and fast lines around which approach is "right" and which isn't. The approach we took was certainly higher risk, but we can only look back on those targets we passed over in hindsight. HS recruits can flame out just like transfers can, and then you're saddled with them for a longer period of time.
It's always going to be hard for me to be overly hard on a guy who took the more difficult path that could lead us to wins sooner. Maybe he did it because we thought we wouldn't have the stomach for a full tear-down. Maybe he did it because he thought, on balance, the risk/reward was more comparable than it was. Regardless, I can't shake the feeling that we're a Quentin Snider de-commit away from his approach working.
No question you can be highly successful stressing the transfer route, as Fred Hoiberg proved at Iowa State among others. I just think your margin for error is higher if you're a developmental program. Maybe that wouldn't have been playing to John Groce's strengths.
That and Cliffsmas kinda have a "Dukakis in the tank" feeling to them, don't they? But honestly, in my heart of hearts my belief is that Groce took a knife to a gunfight on both occasions and a savvier coach would have been more prepared for the possibility of striking out.
We have gotten leaks from the staff on this board (to the extent we choose to believe their authenticity). They paint a picture of an awfully high degree of naiveté, IMO
Just because O'Mara and Austin are on a good team, and average meager stats, it is a huge leap of faith to project them as stars on the Illini team. I have watched both O'Mara and Austin and I definitely not believe that they would have made much of a difference. O'Mara over Thorne (previous post)? I'd take a Thorne every time if that was even possible and take a chance that he gets injured. Austin?
Problem is that we need much better players at key positions. Not Austin and O'Mara. I have zero problem with whom Groce targeted. Problem is that Groce failed multiple times to close the deal. That is his problem and that is the bottom line. That's why he now desperately needs a great 2017 class.
I'm not a JG fan but I could never call what happened with Snider "striking out".Noone could of foreseen that decommit coming.That was a the single biggest kick in the stomach we've had in the JG tenure as far as I'm concerned and losing him to his hometown school at the last minute was no fault of Groce.I blame Jaquan Lyle.Can't stand to look at that overrated kid and tOSU should be investigated for academic fraud for letting him on the floor.
If Snider alone is on this team, it has a dramatically different look than it does now. The only guy people could argue we missed on with reasonable expectation of landing and being an improvement besides Snider is Watson. Ulis was never coming to Illinois once Kentucky offered.
Also, I dont think the staff creaned Henry. Wasnt there a lot of people who said they wanted him to stay but it was his choice to leave? Hard to put that one on them as well.
Ed morrow was/is a redundant player to black. You don't take another undersize 4 in b2b classes. Austin and O'Mars, seriously? Then from what I understand, Groce didn't crean Henry. They wanted him to play the 4 more, he didn't and transferred. Yet he ended up playing the 4 at DePaul b
I had the same belief at the time but I would take him in a heartbeat now. I'm not sold that he would have come here even if we pursued him heavily though.
I'd take him now, but this time last year? Not a chance in hell. Agree with the latter.
They didn't take up many years of scholarships at all actually.
I'm not counting latulip and if you want to count guys like shaw and Henry and ibby etc. be my guest but I'd have been more upset if Groce had kept those guys to be honest.
We don't need stars. There will be 20 at-large NCAA teams without a player as good as Hill. We need quality contributors at a couple of key positions.
I don't think our record would be much different with those guys, but that's JMO.
Myke would have graduated had he remained with Illinois. And to add to the other points on Austin, I saw a tweet earlier this season to the effect of "Big news, Larry Austin actually made a jump shot". So he appears to be pretty similar to Tate at this point.
Watson was certainly a big miss along with Ulis (though he still probably picks UK if they offered).
I don't know for sure, but I don't think Henry had a choice. He said he wasn't invited to the post-season basketball banquet. I know if I was the only one not invited to a big annual company social, I'd be getting my resume updated and start looking for a new job.
Also, Starks and Paul were coming with only one scholarship available. Someone was going.
My evaluation of DP's recruitment... Henry and Colbert shown the door, used up a scholarship year, all for a player who never played a minute and embarrassed the university twice to boot.
Just my opinion.
From the N-G today:
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-02-25/empty-seats-easy-spot.html
Everything else aside, the fans are voting with their feet on Groce, and barring an extraordinary turnaround, it'll only get worse next season. Aside from declining ticket sales, those are a lot of missed concessions and merchandise dollars. Not to mention, if fans don't bother going to games, they probably don't feel like donating as much to the I-Fund, either.
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-02-25/empty-seats-easy-spot.html
Everything else aside, the fans are voting with their feet on Groce, and barring an extraordinary turnaround, it'll only get worse next season. Aside from declining ticket sales, those are a lot of missed concessions and merchandise dollars. Not to mention, if fans don't bother going to games, they probably don't feel like donating as much to the I-Fund, either.
The AD can definitely do that. Now if he would do such a thing is a different question.
My guess is since Whitman said in his press conference he like to stay in his Lane, he'll let Groce ride or die with his guys.
You recollect the MH situation perfectly, he was "creamed." to make room for DP.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Paul technically use up 3 years of ships. The 1 year he was on campus sitting out the transfer, a 2nd year that we sort of held open for his return from TX (we may have gotten a 5th yr in place of that) and finally when he wigged out in France in August, it was too late to get anybody of value(maybe we got Lewis).
It looks like there are even empty seats in the Orange Krush section.
Well duh, he plays PG. In the AD era all PG's are whipping boys, especially as underclassmen.
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