John Groce at Illinois

Obelix · Jan 8, 2016

Jreed322 said:
So you think he should accomplish something that I'm not sure has ever been done at Illinois? No pressure...

Not sure when you started following recruiting, but Illinois has enjoyed some fantastic recruiting classes in its history. Actually some of them were indeed the basis for our truly elite teams (e.g., 89, 01, 05). I am not going to go back to the Henson years, where we were bringing in McD AAs in multiple years.

But even our 2002 class was recognized as one of the best.

http://athlonsports.com/college-basketball/top-25-college-basketball-recruiting-classes-2000

Our 2003 class would also have been top 10 had Self stayed with Randle, McBride, Villanueva, and Carter.

But even our 2010 class, was pretty much one of the top ones.

http://www.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=14&cfg=bb&yr=2010

Team rankings are rather subjective, as the overall ranking depends on either average (i.e. giving more weight to top recruits in small classes) or total rankings (i.e. giving more emphasis on total number or recruits) depending on what recruiting service publishes them. But the bottom line is that the 2017 class will have many players to replace (Abrams, Thorne, Hill, Nunn, Tate, Mav), quite a few of them among our top players. The 2017 recruiting class will have to include multiple highly ranked recruits who need to be ready to contribute immediately.

Is it unfair to Groce to have such high expectations? Well, he would not have such high recruiting expectations if he had accomplished better recruiting balance in previous years, not going 4 years without a top-100 HS PG or C. And he would not have such high expectations had he not missed the tourney 3 years in a row. But that is on him, and that is the current situation.

With his back on the wall, he needs to replace multiple of his best players with players who would need to contribute immediately. Groce will not have the luxury to recruit just some decent players who may contribute as upperclassmen. The 2017 class will have to contribute immediately, not in 2019-20 or 2020-21 as upperclassmen. Furthermore, Groce will be on the hot seat and will need the PR boost of a top recruiting class.

Obelix · Jan 8, 2016

Jreed322 said:
If someone guaranteed me 20-24 regular season wins for the next five years for Illinois I would take it immediately. I would've taken it 15 years ago too. It doesn't say anything about some hypothetical distance you think the program has fallen. 24 wins in any given year is a damn good record.

20-24 is pretty big range with totally different implications. 24 wins is a damn good record indeed, especially at the current state of the program. But on the other hand, 20 wins is a bubble team every year, which means that you may also miss the tournament. If Groce gets 20 wins next year, ends as a bubble team, and misses the tourney, he will not survive.

bleedsorangenblue · Jan 9, 2016

DudeAbides said:
I would take it too. But that's my point. We shouldn't be in the position where we see 20-24 wins every year and immediately want that. From 01-06 we won at least 25 games every year. And that was with 1-2 fewer scheduled games per season. Add in an extra cupcake and that's at least 26 wins every season for 6 years straight with one of them having 37 wins.

Now we're talking about being happy with 20-24 wins every year for the next 5. The expectations have been lowered. People need to remember that this is a solid Tier 2 program after the blue bloods. We shouldn't be looking up to Iowa. We shouldn't be losing ground to Northwestern. We shouldn't be looking at the Purdue game at home this weekend and hoping that we keep it within 20. We shouldn't be okay with Groce failing to have a winning conference record in 4 years. I mean, come on guys. You can still be a loyal fan and have a critical view of the program. If we're okay with 20-24 wins every year then we're basically saying we're okay with being Iowa. I'm not okay with that.

I don't think many are saying that they would be happy with this kind of performance for Illinois over the long haul or even the next five years. I don't want to speak for others but am sure some would agree with me that there needs to be some more patience with this program. Groce has the opportunity to really put this together in the next couple years. You can bet that if he is fired at the end of this season, we are looking for at least another five years of rebuilding under most logical scenarios.

His success is not certain. If Groce can't make significant progress within the next year, it will likely be time for him to move on. Many just see that it is worth the risk to see what he can do. The alternative is a lot less attractive if you are convinced that a change in coach sets you back even further at this juncture. There just doesn't seem to be any quick-fix saviors waiting in the wings.

Jreed322 · Jan 9, 2016

IlliniJim20 said:
I agree we would be seeing what we have seen on the floor, inconsistency and overall poor play.

The problem I see with what you are saying is this: you are relying on your #1 point guard, who is really be a combo guard, coming off a missed season due to injury. I suppose he falls into the category of "absence makes the heart grow fonder," because when he was on the floor he was commended for his toughness, but generally criticized for his point guard abilities. In sum, he was viewed as a combo guard trying to play point guard.

No argument on Nunn.

The other problem you cite is Leron Black: he showed flashes as a freshman, but an inability to remain on the floor in his limited time this year, due to foul trouble. In sum, you are gambling on improvement base on promise, not necessarily production.

Thorne: wrt to preseason #1 big man, you are also relying on a 5th year transfer. A transfer who was solid, but not spectacular at Charlotte. Unfortunately, he was the best we had, which goes back to recruiting. He did perform well, but the biggest test, the Big Ten season, his grade is incomplete.

I guess this summarizes the John Groce era: bad luck, missed recruting opportunities, no pg, no big man, . . .

Abrams something we are sorely missing right now in toughness, solid defense and a very vocal leader on the floor who understands the game.

Black was having the best Summer and Europe trip of anyone by a wide margin and looked primed to be a very solid 4 for us. We've always known he can rebound and it appeared he was ready to make contributions over the course of a full game.

I'm again miffed as to why people want to revert back to what Thorne did at Charlotte instead of what he was doing for us. He was beasting for us and gave us solid rim protection or at least someone the opposing offense had to be aware of when they would drive.

All that stuff I've mentioned are the biggest issues with this team right now. Losing any one of those three would have been tough but perhaps survive-able. All three on top of a couple other missing a handful of games here or there throughout the year like nunn, Tate and Lewis? No chance.

Jreed322 · Jan 9, 2016

Obelix said:
Not sure when you started following recruiting, but Illinois has enjoyed some fantastic recruiting classes in its history. Actually some of them were indeed the basis for our truly elite teams (e.g., 89, 01, 05). I am not going to go back to the Henson years, where we were bringing in McD AAs in multiple years.

But even our 2002 class was recognized as one of the best.

http://athlonsports.com/college-basketball/top-25-college-basketball-recruiting-classes-2000

Our 2003 class would also have been top 10 had Self stayed with Randle, McBride, Villanueva, and Carter.

But even our 2010 class, was pretty much one of the top ones.

http://www.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=14&cfg=bb&yr=2010

Team rankings are rather subjective, as the overall ranking depends on either average (i.e. giving more weight to top recruits in small classes) or total rankings (i.e. giving more emphasis on total number or recruits) depending on what recruiting service publishes them. But the bottom line is that the 2017 class will have many players to replace (Abrams, Thorne, Hill, Nunn, Tate, Mav), quite a few of them among our top players. The 2017 recruiting class will have to include multiple highly ranked recruits who need to be ready to contribute immediately.

Is it unfair to Groce to have such high expectations? Well, he would not have such high recruiting expectations if he had accomplished better recruiting balance in previous years, not going 4 years without a top-100 HS PG or C. And he would not have such high expectations had he not missed the tourney 3 years in a row. But that is on him, and that is the current situation.

With his back on the wall, he needs to replace multiple of his best players with players who would need to contribute immediately. Groce will not have the luxury to recruit just some decent players who may contribute as upperclassmen. The 2017 class will have to contribute immediately, not in 2019-20 or 2020-21 as upperclassmen. Furthermore, Groce will be on the hot seat and will need the PR boost of a top recruiting class.

I'm not disagreeing that we've had great classes but suggestion he needs a once in a decade type class isn't fair to me. I want a good/great class no doubt with one that fills the needs for depth at pg and C especially. That's my thoughts.

DudeAbides · Jan 9, 2016

bleedsorangenblue said:
I don't think many are saying that they would be happy with this kind of performance for Illinois over the long haul or even the next five years. I don't want to speak for others but am sure some would agree with me that there needs to be some more patience with this program. Groce has the opportunity to really put this together in the next couple years. You can bet that if he is fired at the end of this season, we are looking for at least another five years of rebuilding under most logical scenarios.

His success is not certain. If Groce can't make significant progress within the next year, it will likely be time for him to move on. Many just see that it is worth the risk to see what he can do. The alternative is a lot less attractive if you are convinced that a change in coach sets you back even further at this juncture. There just doesn't seem to be any quick-fix saviors waiting in the wings.

We're all railing against the Cubit 2 year hire because we know he's a dead man walking. Well, how much different would it be if Groce stayed on next year but we didn't extend him? Recruits know he has to win big next year or he's gone. How do you recruit in that environment? And you can't just extend him after a bad season, which this year is shaping up to be.

Groce doesn't have the track record to make me believe he's going to turn things around. We can bemoan injuries and bad luck on the recruiting trail all we want, but the fact of the matter is he's not getting it done. In 4 years at Ohio, Groce's best finish was 3rd in the MAC. His 2nd best finish was 5th. In 4 years at Illinois, Groce's best finish will be 7th in the B1G.

In the 30 years prior to Groce's arrival, we finished worse than 5th in the B1G a total of 5 times. So once every 6 years or so. With Groce, we're on track for our 4th sub-5th finish in 4 years. I don't know why this isn't resonating more with everyone.

Butkuser · Jan 9, 2016

Bailey said:
If we're the caliber of program our fan base thinks we are, there's a dozen better options than Jerrance.

Herein lies the rub...the fan base thinks we are. I don't know if we, myself included, and being realistic about where our program is right now. I thought the idea of JH was fun when I first heard it, and I have come back down to earth a bit. But I think my enthusiasm for an idea which may not be the best is simply symptomatic of desperately wanting to feel excited about the program again.

I would love to reel in Chris Mack, Greg Marshall, Bryce Drew, etc., but are they simply going to be the next Stevens and Smart who say "no thanks." I believe the answer lies in who we eventually get as AD, and how Groce does next year with a realistic roster, instead of coping with all the lunacy of injuries, illness, dismissals, etc. of this year.

We have to hope for either one of two outcomes: One, that Groce turns things around and has a good season next year, along with tapping into the 2017 class. Or two, if he fizzles, that we have hired an AD with the necessary connections and gravitas to lure a top notch replacement.

It's tough waiting, hence the grasping at straws like JH.

Jreed322 · Jan 9, 2016

DudeAbides said:
We're all railing against the Cubit 2 year hire because we know he's a dead man walking. Well, how much different would it be if Groce stayed on next year but we didn't extend him? Recruits know he has to win big next year or he's gone. How do you recruit in that environment? And you can't just extend him after a bad season, which this year is shaping up to be.

Groce doesn't have the track record to make me believe he's going to turn things around. We can bemoan injuries and bad luck on the recruiting trail all we want, but the fact of the matter is he's not getting it done. In 4 years at Ohio, Groce's best finish was 3rd in the MAC. His 2nd best finish was 5th. In 4 years at Illinois, Groce's best finish will be 7th in the B1G.

In the 30 years prior to Groce's arrival, we finished worse than 5th in the B1G a total of 5 times. So once every 6 years or so. With Groce, we're on track for our 4th sub-5th finish in 4 years. I don't know why this isn't resonating more with everyone.

You seem to think Illinois can return to the "glory days" at the snap of a finger without acknowledging where we were coming from at the end of webers tenure. I know you only like to throw out conference finishes to back up your claims but you can't just ignore the classes Groce had to make up, the injuries this year, etc.

We all want Illinois to get back to the top of the conference but saying things like "we should demand better!" aren't going to get that done.

Golfer63 · Jan 9, 2016

IlliniJim20 said:
What evidence do you have that Coleman-Lands will transfer?

Not many D1 guys, especially starter types, want to sit out a year.

JCL is an elite level recruit, borderline McD AA, that came to Illinois not because it was Illinois. He came to play for John Groce. Which is why I say if Groce goes, so does JCL.

IlliniRunIn07 · Jan 9, 2016

I unfortunately watched just about every minute of that MSU game. It was beyond painful, well at least the first half. And I had completely recalibrated my expectations for this team a few games into the non-conf schedule. As others have stated, without 4/5 of your starters, it's tough to hold Groce accountable for that blowout. What kills me regarding the injuries isn't just the losses or how embarrassingly bad we look. It's that year 4 should tell us a lot about the coach we have, and we have virtually no useful data this season. Coach deserves a mulligan, for sure. I'm not convinced he is the answer going forward. I'm also not convinced that he isn't. I will watch the remaining games looking for individual improvement, but the part of this situation that really eats at me is this perpetual state of limbo that we will be in the rest of the season. At least some good came out of Weber's embarrassing @Nebraska loss - the entire fan base realized he absolutely needed to go.

I hope Groce gets another year, but if he fails next year then I will definitely be eating my words there. I'm nervous and excited for the future in so many aspects. Groce has a commanding personality, and as a figurehead, I'm proud that he's our coach. I realize it will (likely) be different people making the decisions, but if our athletic department gives Cubit a 2 year extension and cans Groce a few months later, that's an awful year.

TCTORNADO · Jan 9, 2016

Golfer63 said:
JCL is an elite level recruit, borderline McD AA, that came to Illinois not because it was Illinois. He came to play for John Groce. Which is why I say if Groce goes, so does JCL.

Bingo, you get it. Groce has known JCL from 8th grade. There have even been rumblings that Groce helped facilitate JCL's move from Cathedral to LaLu. This is all speculation of course.

TCTORNADO · Jan 9, 2016

Not out of the question regarding the 2017 class potentially being the best in history of school. With 6 scholarships open (depending on what happens to 2016), one could see 5 or all 6 in the Top 100.
Somebody pointed out 2002 class--RSCI had then nationally @ #8
Dee -#19
Deron-#48
Augustine # 78
Kyle Wilson-NR
Elliot Poole-never enrolled
The 2010 class was # 7 nationally and that was Leonard, JR, and Crandall.
So it's not out of the question that a class made up of some mix (5 or 6) could be the best in history and certainly top 5 nationally.
VC rankings:
Tilmon-#17
Da'Monte-#43/Eastern-#49
Bowen--# 21/Theo John-#96
Verge-#97
Goodwin-# 78
Pickett-NR
Groce has been working on some of these kids since junior high.
Damm, my coffee is O & B.

ole 99 · Jan 9, 2016

Golfer63 said:
JCL is an elite level recruit, borderline McD AA, that came to Illinois not because it was Illinois. He came to play for John Groce. Which is why I say if Groce goes, so does JCL.

You do not know if this is true. Sitting a year is a pretty big deterrent. Even if it were 100% certain to happen, this is not the NBA and despite being a very nice player, JCL is not LeBron with the ability to dictate the coaching staff.

DudeAbides · Jan 9, 2016

Jreed322 said:
You seem to think Illinois can return to the "glory days" at the snap of a finger without acknowledging where we were coming from at the end of webers tenure. I know you only like to throw out conference finishes to back up your claims but you can't just ignore the classes Groce had to make up, the injuries this year, etc.

We all want Illinois to get back to the top of the conference but saying things like "we should demand better!" aren't going to get that done.

4 years isn't the snap of a finger. It is an entire class cycle. At this point we can't honestly say Groce has us in a better spot than when Weber left. If we're still stuck in neutral after 4 years then I'm not sure why people think we are suddenly going to take off.

As for recruiting, we still don't have any 17 commits and our 16 class consists of a 3* transfer and a fringe 4* PG. Our 15 class was actually pretty good, but it included Paul who didn't work out and it failed to include a PG or a PF/C, our biggest positions of need.

Obviously if Groce lands some top commits for the 17 class by season's end then it's a no-brainer to stick with him. But if this season ends with a whimper and we don't have any recruiting mojo for 17 then we as fans should encourage the new AD to make a change.

ole 99 · Jan 9, 2016

DudeAbides said:
We're all railing against the Cubit 2 year hire because we know he's a dead man walking. Well, how much different would it be if Groce stayed on next year but we didn't extend him? Recruits know he has to win big next year or he's gone. How do you recruit in that environment? And you can't just extend him after a bad season, which this year is shaping up to be.

I have very low expectations of '17 recruiting since the summer. With our on the court results, Groce is almost a dead man walking on the recruiting trail. If we replace him, you can't expect a new coach to hit it out of the park with such a short window of time.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jan 9, 2016

TCTORNADO said:
Not out of the question regarding the 2017 class potentially being the best in history of school. With 6 scholarships open (depending on what happens to 2016), one could see 5 or all 6 in the Top 100.
Somebody pointed out 2002 class--RSCI had then nationally @ #8
Dee -#19
Deron-#48
Augustine # 78
Kyle Wilson-NR
Elliot Poole-never enrolled
The 2010 class was # 7 nationally and that was Leonard, JR, and Crandall.
So it's not out of the question that a class made up of some mix (5 or 6) could be the best in history and certainly top 5 nationally.
VC rankings:
Tilmon-#17
Da'Monte-#43/Eastern-#49
Bowen--# 21/Theo John-#96
Verge-#97
Goodwin-# 78
Pickett-NR
Groce has been working on some of these kids since junior high.
Damm, my coffee is O & B.

You left Aaron Spears (RSCI #86) off of the 2002 class.

And it's possible I'll win tonight's PowerBall, too.

bleedsorangenblue · Jan 9, 2016

DudeAbides said:
4 years isn't the snap of a finger. It is an entire class cycle. At this point we can't honestly say Groce has us in a better spot than when Weber left. If we're still stuck in neutral after 4 years then I'm not sure why people think we are suddenly going to take off.

As for recruiting, we still don't have any 17 commits and our 16 class consists of a 3* transfer and a fringe 4* PG. Our 15 class was actually pretty good, but it included Paul who didn't work out and it failed to include a PG or a PF/C, our biggest positions of need.

Obviously if Groce lands some top commits for the 17 class by season's end then it's a no-brainer to stick with him. But if this season ends with a whimper and we don't have any recruiting mojo for 17 then we as fans should encourage the new AD to make a change.

The 4th year is not over and I believe this year's results are going to be seen as an anomaly by most due to injuries anyway. I don't see how anyone can realistically judge Groce's tenure at this point. The class recruiting cycle is far from complete. If you don't see the program as being in a better place than when Weber left, I can't help you.

All this talk about firing Groce at the end of the year just seems a year too premature to me. I can't see this year ending in any kind of debacle that would warrant cutting ties. It would take a complete collapse and mutiny by the players to justify it in my mind.

dmac279 · Jan 9, 2016

Jreed322 said:
Abrams something we are sorely missing right now in toughness, solid defense and a very vocal leader on the floor who understands the game.

Black was having the best Summer and Europe trip of anyone by a wide margin and looked primed to be a very solid 4 for us. We've always known he can rebound and it appeared he was ready to make contributions over the course of a full game.

I'm again miffed as to why people want to revert back to what Thorne did at Charlotte instead of what he was doing for us. He was beasting for us and gave us solid rim protection or at least someone the opposing offense had to be aware of when they would drive.

All that stuff I've mentioned are the biggest issues with this team right now. Losing any one of those three would have been tough but perhaps survive-able. All three on top of a couple other missing a handful of games here or there throughout the year like nunn, Tate and Lewis? No chance.

Spot on

HoopCity · Jan 9, 2016

Ulysses Everett McGill said:
+1. Ties to the program/inevitable breakup or not, JH w/b a bad idea IMO. With zero head coaching experience, I'd guess anyone advocating hiring him is assuming he'll just reel in enough talent to win regardless. Don't see it myself. Plus, to me, we've already had our breakup with JH.

I don't see where "WE" as Illinois has had any break-up as an University with Jerrance Howard. Jerrance did not follow Weber to Kansas State and was not offered a position with John Groce. This does not eliminate him from coming back to his Alma Mater. Someone down the road is going to give him a chance as a head coach. I hope Groce pulls through this.

HoopCity · Jan 9, 2016

DudeAbides said:
We're all railing against the Cubit 2 year hire because we know he's a dead man walking. Well, how much different would it be if Groce stayed on next year but we didn't extend him? Recruits know he has to win big next year or he's gone. How do you recruit in that environment? And you can't just extend him after a bad season, which this year is shaping up to be.

Groce doesn't have the track record to make me believe he's going to turn things around. We can bemoan injuries and bad luck on the recruiting trail all we want, but the fact of the matter is he's not getting it done. In 4 years at Ohio, Groce's best finish was 3rd in the MAC. His 2nd best finish was 5th. In 4 years at Illinois, Groce's best finish will be 7th in the B1G.

In the 30 years prior to Groce's arrival, we finished worse than 5th in the B1G a total of 5 times. So once every 6 years or so. With Groce, we're on track for our 4th sub-5th finish in 4 years. I don't know why this isn't resonating more with everyone.

This tells it all .....

1971 - 72 Harv Schmidt 14 - 10 5 - 9 8th(T)
1972 - 73 Harv Schmidt 14 - 10 8 - 6 3rd(T)
1973 - 74 Harv Schmidt 5 - 18 2 - 12 10th
Harv Schmidt: 89 - 77 43 - 55
Gene Bartow (1974–1975)
1974 - 75 Gene Bartow 8 - 18 4 - 14 9th(T)
Lou Henson (1975–1996)
1975 - 76 Lou Henson 14 - 13 7 - 11 7th(T)
1976 - 77 Lou Henson 16 - 14 8 - 10 6th
1977 - 78 Lou Henson 13 - 14 7 - 11 7th
1978 - 79 Lou Henson 19 - 11 7 - 11 7th
1979 - 80 Lou Henson 22 - 13 8 - 10 6th(T) NIT 3rd Place
1980 - 81 Lou Henson 21 - 8 12 - 6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1981 - 82 Lou Henson 18 - 11 10 - 8 6th NIT 2nd Round
1982 - 83 Lou Henson 21 - 11 11 - 7 2nd(T) NCAA 1st Round
1983 - 84 Lou Henson 26 - 5 15 - 3 1st(T) NCAA Elite Eight
1984 - 85 Lou Henson 26 - 9 12 - 6 2nd NCAA Sweet 16
1985 - 86 Lou Henson 22 - 10 11 - 7 4th(T) NCAA 2nd Round
1986 - 87 Lou Henson 23 - 8 13 - 5 4th NCAA 1st Round
1987 - 88 Lou Henson 23 - 10 12 - 6 3rd(T) NCAA 2nd Round
1988 - 89 Lou Henson 31 - 5 14 - 4 2nd NCAA Final Four
1989 - 90 Lou Henson 21 - 8 11 - 7 4th(T) NCAA 1st Round
1990 - 91 Lou Henson 21 - 10 11 - 7 3rd(T)
1991 - 92 Lou Henson 13 - 15 7 - 11 8th
1992 - 93 Lou Henson 19 - 13 11 - 7 3rd(T) NCAA 2nd Round
1993 - 94 Lou Henson 17 - 11 10 - 8 4th(T) NCAA 1st Round
1994 - 95 Lou Henson 19 - 12 10 - 8 5th(T) NCAA 1st Round
1995 - 96 Lou Henson 18 - 13 7 - 11 9th NIT 1st Round

2003 - 04 Bruce Weber 26 - 7 13 - 3 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2004 - 05 Bruce Weber 37 - 2 15 - 1 1st NCAA Runner-Up
2005 - 06 Bruce Weber 26 - 7 11 - 5 2nd(T) NCAA Round of 32
2006 - 07 Bruce Weber 23 - 12 9 - 7 4th(T) NCAA Round of 64
2007 - 08 Bruce Weber 16 - 19 5 - 13 9th(T)
2008 - 09 Bruce Weber 24 - 10 11 - 7 2nd(T) NCAA Round of 64
2009 - 10 Bruce Weber 21 - 15 10 - 8 5th NIT Quarterfinals
2010 - 11 Bruce Weber 20 - 14 9 - 9 4th NCAA Round of 32
2011 - 12 Bruce Weber 17 - 15 6 - 12 9th

illinitiger · Jan 9, 2016

HoopCity said:
This tells it all .....

1971 - 72Harv Schmidt14 - 105 - 98th(T)
1972 - 73Harv Schmidt14 - 108 - 63rd(T)
1973 - 74Harv Schmidt5 - 182 - 1210th
Harv Schmidt:89 - 7743 - 55
Gene Bartow (1974–1975)
1974 - 75Gene Bartow8 - 184 - 149th(T)
Lou Henson (1975–1996)
1975 - 76Lou Henson14 - 137 - 117th(T)
1976 - 77Lou Henson16 - 148 - 106th
1977 - 78Lou Henson13 - 147 - 117th
1978 - 79Lou Henson19 - 117 - 117th
1979 - 80Lou Henson22 - 138 - 106th(T)NIT 3rd Place
1980 - 81Lou Henson21 - 812 - 63rdNCAA Sweet Sixteen
1981 - 82Lou Henson18 - 1110 - 86thNIT 2nd Round
1982 - 83Lou Henson21 - 1111 - 72nd(T)NCAA 1st Round
1983 - 84Lou Henson26 - 515 - 31st(T)NCAA Elite Eight
1984 - 85Lou Henson26 - 912 - 62ndNCAA Sweet 16
1985 - 86Lou Henson22 - 1011 - 74th(T)NCAA 2nd Round
1986 - 87Lou Henson23 - 813 - 54thNCAA 1st Round
1987 - 88Lou Henson23 - 1012 - 63rd(T)NCAA 2nd Round
1988 - 89Lou Henson31 - 514 - 42ndNCAA Final Four
1989 - 90Lou Henson21 - 811 - 74th(T)NCAA 1st Round
1990 - 91Lou Henson21 - 1011 - 73rd(T)
1991 - 92Lou Henson13 - 157 - 118th
1992 - 93Lou Henson19 - 1311 - 73rd(T)NCAA 2nd Round
1993 - 94Lou Henson17 - 1110 - 84th(T)NCAA 1st Round
1994 - 95Lou Henson19 - 1210 - 85th(T)NCAA 1st Round
1995 - 96Lou Henson18 - 137 - 119thNIT 1st Round

2003 - 04Bruce Weber26 - 713 - 31stNCAA Sweet Sixteen
2004 - 05Bruce Weber37 - 215 - 11stNCAA Runner-Up
2005 - 06Bruce Weber26 - 711 - 52nd(T)NCAA Round of 32
2006 - 07Bruce Weber23 - 129 - 74th(T)NCAA Round of 64
2007 - 08Bruce Weber16 - 195 - 139th(T)
2008 - 09Bruce Weber24 - 1011 - 72nd(T)NCAA Round of 64
2009 - 10Bruce Weber21 - 1510 - 85thNIT Quarterfinals
2010 - 11Bruce Weber20 - 149 - 94thNCAA Round of 32
2011 - 12Bruce Weber17 - 156 - 129th

Interesting.

I realize there were less teams in the NCAA back then, but didn't realize it took Lou 8 seasons to make that a trend.

homesickalien · Jan 9, 2016

Why are some of you stating that bringing in a new coach is setting us back? You bring in a new coach because the one you have isn't getting it done.

You don't keep a person because they MIGHT be better down the road. If that person isn't getting the results you should cut ties and get another person in that will.

And I'm sick of excuses. For me an excuse is a one time thing. It's year 4 and people are still coming up with anything they can to say it isn't Groce's fault. We can't wait around forever hoping he turns it around. When he got the job he came up with a plan to bring Illinois back to national prominence. It's shown it hasn't worked and it's time for a change.

Now we just need a capable AD to make the right hire.

Calvin · Jan 9, 2016

westms77 said:
Great points.....I'll admit I havn't seen TJL play but isn't he ranked around 200 on 247...Not saying rankings are everything but this kid better be an all time sleeper..man I hope so

I like the pick-up of TJL, but no one should get their hopes up for him to be a difference maker for a couple years minimum. I wouldn't call him undersized, but he's very thin and not particularly tall. Decent length for his size, and has a true PG skill set. I could see him being a good floor leader by his Jr or Sr year, but I wouldn't complain about where 247 has rated him --I don't think he's shown the talent of guys like AJ, JCL, LB, etc. who were higher rated.

I suspect people will overhype him, as they tend to do with incoming recruits, but IMO we haven't brought in a difference maker at that position yet.

ChazzReinhold · Jan 9, 2016

Calvin said:
I like the pick-up of TJL, but no one should get their hopes up for him to be a difference maker for a couple years minimum. I wouldn't call him undersized, but he's very thin and not particularly tall. Decent length for his size, and has a true PG skill set. I could see him being a good floor leader by his Jr or Sr year, but I wouldn't complain about where 247 has rated him --I don't think he's shown the talent of guys like AJ, JCL, LB, etc. who were higher rated.

I suspect people will overhype him, as they tend to do with incoming recruits, but IMO we haven't brought in a difference maker at that position yet.

Doesn't look thin to me at all.

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illinitiger · Jan 9, 2016

ChazzReinhold said:
Doesn't look thin to me at all.

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Yep...looks bigger than MLV. Glad we got him

John Groce at Illinois

Mom! The Meatloaf!