John Groce at Illinois

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#1,101      

EJ33

E
San Francisco
EJ33
Golfer63 said:
Back to my point, maybe we should have a little more patience. Look how many years it took Lou to get Illinois to be a top tier program. Or better yet, look at Coach K's first 3 or 4 years at Duke.
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Please, please, please stop using Coach K as a comparable. I think Coach K started at Duke in 1980 and by 1982 landed one of the best recruiting classes in the country:

He landed a recruiting class in 1982 made up of Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, David Henderson, Jay Bilas, Bill Jackman and Weldon Williams. It was rated one of the nation’s best and put Duke on the map to stay.
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Link

That's why people were patient with Coach K - they saw the future would be good.

Lou Henson also gave fans lots of reasons to believe the future would be brighter. He landed Levi Cobb from the CPL in his first year and Eddie Johnson in his 2nd year. Both would have been 5 star players if they were ranked. His record also showed a steady progression of improvement.

If K and Lou are the standard then they make the case that Groce is not improving and should be fired rather than retained.
 
#1,102      

DudeAbides

D
DudeAbides
EJ33 said:
Please, please, please stop using Coach K as a comparable. I think Coach K started at Duke in 1980 and by 1982 landed one of the best recruiting classes in the country:



Link

That's why people were patient with Coach K - they saw the future would be good.

Lou Henson also gave fans lots of reasons to believe the future would be brighter. He landed Levi Cobb from the CPL in his first year and Eddie Johnson in his 2nd year. Both would have been 5 star players if they were ranked. His record also showed a steady progression of improvement.

If K and Lou are the standard then they make the case that Groce is not improving and should be fired rather than retained.
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Meanwhile, Groce has signed a total of 2 RSCI top 50 players in his first 4 classes. Weber signed 4 in his last 4 classes. Not all panned out, but one of Weber's biggest knocks was recruiting and that was supposed to be Groce's strength. Add in the declining win totals each year and it's really hard to feel confident about Groce moving forward. We're supposed to be further along in this rebuild than where we are at right now.
 
#1,103      

Newman

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Newman
DudeAbides said:
Meanwhile, Groce has signed a total of 2 RSCI top 50 players in his first 4 classes. Weber signed 4 in his last 4 classes. Not all panned out, but one of Weber's biggest knocks was recruiting and that was supposed to be Groce's strength. Add in the declining win totals each year and it's really hard to feel confident about Groce moving forward. We're supposed to be further along in this rebuild than where we are at right now.
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Not all panned out is a huge understatement.
 
#1,105      

DudeAbides

D
DudeAbides
Newman said:
Not all panned out is a huge understatement.
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Richmond is the only one that was a failure, and that was primarily because he was a headcase. Still a fantastic player, or at least was. Paul and DJ both had great Illini careers and Meyers went pro his sophomore year after having a solid season in an otherwise forgettable year.
 
#1,106      

Newman

N
Newman
DudeAbides said:
Richmond is the only one that was a failure, and that was primarily because he was a headcase. Still a fantastic player, or at least was. Paul and DJ both had great Illini careers and Meyers went pro his sophomore year after having a solid season in an otherwise forgettable year.
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I guess I was more referring to his recruits in general. I also think that people grossly underestimate the impact of having a whole year without recruits. They would be seniors right now.. but for some reason that's not a valid excuse to explain Groce's lack of success.
 
#1,107      

DudeAbides

D
DudeAbides
Newman said:
I guess I was more referring to his recruits in general. I also think that people grossly underestimate the impact of having a whole year without recruits. They would be seniors right now.. but for some reason that's not a valid excuse to explain Groce's lack of success.
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We took 6 in 2011, which is why 2012 was a smaller recruiting class. I think we only had 1 to give anyway until Leonard left. Orris was signed and Groce replaced him (rightfully so) with 2 years of Rice. McLaurin took Leonard's scholarship. It's not like 2012 was a completely lost year in recruiting.
 
#1,108      

themudflap

T
themudflap
DudeAbides said:
We took 6 in 2011, which is why 2012 was a smaller recruiting class. I think we only had 1 to give anyway until Leonard left. Orris was signed and Groce replaced him (rightfully so) with 2 years of Rice. McLaurin took Leonard's scholarship. It's not like 2012 was a completely lost year in recruiting.
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Uh no. JG wanted Orris to stay. Go look it up.
 
#1,109      

IlliniClassof2018

I
IlliniClassof2018
I know a lot of people are calling for Groce to be gone, but I keep going back to that Providence game. On the road without one of our top scorers, and we had two shots to win the game. He had an excellent gameplan to stop Dunn, and you look at Providence now they are a top 15 team. I think having a healthy Nunn and Thorne for a full season would make a world of difference and he deserves a pass IMO. Next year though will be the year that results will be needed.
 
#1,110      

FeelYourPaign

FeelYourPaign
So Cal
FeelYourPaign
I've been reading this thread for more than 1,000 posts now and its much the same every day. Either he deserves one more year, due to injuries and to see his first class reach senior status or we're trending down, recruiting isn't good enough and isn't balanced, X's and O's are a concern, we need a fresh start.

Curious, so here's a poll.

Have you changed your opinion from one camp to the other, either way, during the course of this conversation? I have not, although I've wavered. I'm still in the camp that 2016-17 is the final shot.
 
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#1,111      

Cubby Blue

C
Cubby Blue
I haven't changed my stance. He get's next year. He has to make the tourney next year. I extend him (for recruiting purposes) but with a low buyout clause. That way, he can get the most out of the 2017 class as far as commitments and if he doesn't make the tourney next year, the new guy will be in the same position with recruits as JG was with Malcolm.
 
#1,112      

chief2007

C
chief2007
FeelYourPaign said:
I've been reading this thread for more than 1,000 posts now and its much the same every day. Either he deserves one more year, due to injuries and to see his first class reach senior status or we're trending down, recruiting isn't good enough and isn't balanced, X's and O's are a concern, we need a fresh start.

Curious, so here's a poll.

Have you changed your opinion from one camp to the other, either way, during the course of this conversation? I have not, although I've wavered. I'm still in the camp that 2016-17 is the final shot.
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I agree that if he does not make the tournament in 2016-17 he will be gone.
 
#1,113      

PaytonHighstep

PaytonHighstep
Downers Grove, IL
PaytonHighstep
I'm sorry, but I don't see how you can give him an extension. I don't believe the new AD will be able to sell that move. He's signed through the 18-19 season already, I understand your point, but if they do, it should be for his current salary and a lower buyout. I still don't see how the new AD would sell that after the last 2 seasons.
 
#1,116      

Deleted member 10005

D
Guest
Deleted member 10005
Barring epic meltdown to end this season, he's back this year. Not sure some or all his assistants make to next season though. One of those have to "demonstrate something changed" situations
 
#1,117      

Cubby Blue

C
Cubby Blue
I thought his comments yesterday about Mav and the new strength coach were puzzling. He credited Mav's spike to better strength conditioning with the new guy (and he is one big New Guy :eek:). I kind of lost track, but was the old strength coach a holdover that JG couldn't do anything about or what? He did say wait and see with them working together for a year and that Mav will be a different person body wise.
 
#1,118      

Illini B-Ball Fan

Illini B-Ball Fan
Illini B-Ball Fan
Wow, is this becoming a deadhorse issue, even though I appreciate the poll. It matters very little what we think, but JG's job will ultimately be up to the new AD, even if the Illini end up having a decent season this year, next year, or not. Standby for the AD's decision... :deadhorse:
 
#1,119      

IlliniDrums89

I
Indianapolis
IlliniDrums89
BennyJ said:
Barring epic meltdown to end this season, he's back this year. Not sure some or all his assistants make to next season though. One of those have to "demonstrate something changed" situations
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How is this season not an epic meltdown already? Do we have to lose by 60 points on national tv?
 
#1,120      

dmac279

D
dmac279
Cubby Blue said:
I haven't changed my stance. He get's next year. He has to make the tourney next year. I extend him (for recruiting purposes) but with a low buyout clause. That way, he can get the most out of the 2017 class as far as commitments and if he doesn't make the tourney next year, the new guy will be in the same position with recruits as JG was with Malcolm.
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I like that
 
#1,122      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
IlliniDrums89 said:
How is this season not an epic meltdown already? Do we have to lose by 60 points on national tv?
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If every game showed like MSU and Indy I might agree on the meltdown....we've competed in most.... those games are outliers. I don't call this a meltdown.
 
#1,124      

Sal Iacuzzo

S
Yonkers, NY
Sal Iacuzzo
I don't think Groce has done enough in 4 years where he neccesarily deserves a 5th. If there are better coaches out there who would come to Illinois (and I think there are) we need to make a change. Programs that want to compete at a championship level don't tolerate this level of losing.
 
#1,125      

GameOfThrows

G
GameOfThrows
Why did Groce rush both Black and Thorne back from injury?!!!!

Why did he Crean Colbert for Paul?!! There were warning signs about Paul that many knew about.

Why did he take Cosby and Starks?

I believe that Groce is a good evaluator of talent, but these are some glaring mistakes. And I am not even mentioning the lack of an offense or defense or rebounding...

I agree that he should get one more season b/c of what he inherited and the injuries, but next season is put up or shut up time. Win at least one NCAA tourney game or our new AD hires a new coach.
 
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