John Groce Fired

#151      

illini80

illini80
Forgottonia
illini80
Just got around to listening to the press conferences. So impressed with JW. I can't imagine him handling the situation better. I especially like the part about not letting 10 years become 30. He expressed a sense of urgency to get things fixed now. I love that.

Groce handled himself with class as well. I believe his is a little delusional about what a great state the program is in, but nevertheless he took it as well as anyone could expect.
 
#154      

Goldtop

Goldtop
Goldtop
gibb52 said:
Because you don't want some 3 or 4 game run in a second rate tournament to cloud the issue with players suddenly campaigning for him to stay because "we finally came together as a team in his system" type of hogwash.
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I meant that he was already fired and not coming back before he asked Whitman if he could stick around to coach the last few games of this year. From the responses it appears I was not clear with my original question?
 
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#155      

FinalFour88

FinalFour88
Charlotte, NC
FinalFour88
illini80 said:
Just got around to listening to the press conferences. So impressed with JW. I can't imagine him handling the situation better. I especially like the part about not letting 10 years become 30. He expressed a sense of urgency to get things fixed now. I love that.

Groce handled himself with class as well. I believe his is a little delusional about what a great state the program is in, but nevertheless he took it as well as anyone could expect.
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I agreed with Whitman's "30 years" comment, but I also thought it was a bit harsh. He's basically saying that Groce couldn't win at Illinois even if given 20 years to do it.
 
#156      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
FinalFour88 said:
I agreed with Whitman's "30 years" comment, but I also thought it was a bit harsh. He's basically saying that Groce couldn't win at Illinois even if given 20 years to do it.
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That's not what the quote meant. I have actually made the exact same point. We have been irrelevant in college basketball for the last 12 years (JW rounded to 10). "If we are not careful" it could be 30 years.

It did not mean that if Groce is the coach for another 20 years, he could not do better. But the next hiring is very crucial. An ABG strategy will not work. Every time you go through a hiring change, you lock yourself 5-6 years at the time. You can play this game 3-4 times, but then another 20 years have gone by. That is what JW's comments meant with the statement "if we are not careful..."
 
#158      

Deleted member 19448

D
Guest
Deleted member 19448
His 30 year comment was spot on. We need someone in charge who is not afraid to be honest.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#159      

FinalFour88

FinalFour88
Charlotte, NC
FinalFour88
Robert68 said:
His 30 year comment was spot on. We need someone in charge who is not afraid to be honest.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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As I stated in my post, I agreed with his 30 year comment. But I still think it came off as a slap at Groce. He didn't really need to say it yesterday in that press conference. We're all thinking it. The point is, this next hire is very important. I think that was implied. But I hear you, having someone honest as AD is very nice.
 
#160      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
FinalFour88 said:
As I stated in my post, I agreed with his 30 year comment. But I still think it came off as a slap at Groce. He didn't really need to say it yesterday in that press conference. We're all thinking it. The point is, this next hire is very important. I think that was implied. But I hear you, having someone honest as AD is very nice.
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Again, that is not what his 30 year comment meant. Do you really believe he meant to say that "you keep Groce for another 20 years, he could not do better?" C'mon...

It is a simple point that the hiring process is not memoryless. We botched the previous 2 hires, if we are not careful moving forward, it could easily mean 30 years of irrelevancy.
 
#161      

illini80

illini80
Forgottonia
illini80
Obelix said:
Again, that is not what his 30 year comment meant. Do you really believe he meant to say that "you keep Groce for another 20 years, he could not do better?" C'mon...

It is a simple point that the hiring process is not memoryless. We botched the previous 2 hires, if we are not careful moving forward, it could easily mean 30 years of irrelevancy.
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That's how I took it as well.
 
#162      

Calvin

C
Calvin
As one of the folks long arguing for change, I'm happy to hear the news. Groce did some good things, and his recruiting for this class will be a big boost to the program righting the ship. So for that, and a ton of hard work, I'm thankful. I'm also really excited to see what Whitman will bring in. IMO we have more talent on this team than some of Groce's defenders would have you believe, and a good coach has a lot to work with. Certainly enough to put us back in the dance, and probably a lot more than that. Should be an exciting off-season.
 
#163      

Golfer63

G
Golfer63
Illinoy said:
I think people are undervaluing this. Yes Weber made the tourney more but he had 100 million dollar trust that he pissed away. Groce had a harder task set ahead than Weber. I wish Groce the best even though I agree with the change.
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+1

I get really annoyed by people who say that Groce has "ran this program into the ground" and act as if our next coach has a full on complete Mizzou-esque rebuild on their hands. Honestly, I just see it as a childish tantrum-like point of view to push an agenda of trying to say "Groce is the worst coach in the history of basketball."

The program is certainly not in a great place right now, but it is definitely in a BETTER place than it was back in 2012. Could you imagine if our next coach was able to duplicate the success that Groce had back in his first year? That coach would be bringing back that ENTIRE TEAM the following year. That would make the 2018-19 team a certain pre-season top 15 pick and many experts dark horse Final Four pick.

Groce didn't ruin our program. Weber did, and I can guarantee you the program would be in much worse shape right now if Weber was still our coach today. Guys like Kendrick Nunn, Leron Black, JCL, Cliff Alexander, Juwan Evans, and Elijah Thomas would have laughed and hung up the phone if Weber ever tried to recruit them.
 
#164      

drillini

D
Lindenhurst, IL
drillini
Golfer63 said:
+1

I get really annoyed by people who say that Groce has "ran this program into the ground" and act as if our next coach has a full on complete Mizzou-esque rebuild on their hands. Honestly, I just see it as a childish tantrum-like point of view to push an agenda of trying to say "Groce is the worst coach in the history of basketball."

The program is certainly not in a great place right now, but it is definitely in a BETTER place than it was back in 2012. Could you imagine if our next coach was able to duplicate the success that Groce had back in his first year? That coach would be bringing back that ENTIRE TEAM the following year. That would make the 2018-19 team a certain pre-season top 15 pick and many experts dark horse Final Four pick.

Groce didn't ruin our program. Weber did, and I can guarantee you the program would be in much worse shape right now if Weber was still our coach today. Guys like Kendrick Nunn, Leron Black, JCL, Cliff Alexander, Juwan Evans, and Elijah Thomas would have laughed and hung up the phone if Weber ever tried to recruit them.
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KState is IN the NCAA tournament, more than the Illini can say. So to say the program would have been in worse shape if Weber was still around is stretching things a bit. And the reality of whether Alexander, Evans or Thomas would have had interest in Illinois doesn't matter since they never came here! Our best player was a Weber recruit. Black and JCL have not yet lived up to our expectations. I would much rather put it this way, our program deserves more than what Weber and Groce provided.
 
#165      

Golfer63

G
Golfer63
drillini said:
KState is IN the NCAA tournament, more than the Illini can say. So to say the program would have been in worse shape if Weber was still around is stretching things a bit. And the reality of whether Alexander, Evans or Thomas would have had interest in Illinois doesn't matter since they never came here! Our best player was a Weber recruit. Black and JCL have not yet lived up to our expectations. I would much rather put it this way, our program deserves more than what Weber and Groce provided.
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Weber is also about a year away from being FIRED from KState. Probably would have been fired this year if he hadn't made the tournament. We do deserve better than what both provided. My point on those recruits is that if Weber were recruiting them, we would not have even been on their radar, let alone be a finalist for them.
 
#166      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
Golfer63 said:
Probably would have been fired this year if he hadn't made the tournament.
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May yet be fired if he loses in the First Four.

The difference between keeping Weber and Groce is the 2+ year era of good feelings with JFG and all that.

Whatever Weber's underlying quality as a coach, his situation at Illinois had become untenable as of 2012. It would have just gotten uglier and uglier. Both parties benefited from the fresh start, even if neither really fixed the underlying issues.
 
#167      

Golfer63

G
Golfer63
Second and Chalmers said:
May yet be fired if he loses in the First Four.

The difference between keeping Weber and Groce is the 2+ year era of good feelings with JFG and all that.

Whatever Weber's underlying quality as a coach, his situation at Illinois had become untenable as of 2012. It would have just gotten uglier and uglier. Both parties benefited from the fresh start, even if neither really fixed the underlying issues.
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Exactly.

He generated tons of momentum by landing Kendrick Nunn, and then being a finalist for multiple elite recruits so early in his tenure. The whole hat trick fiasco put a dent in that momentum, but the true momentum killer was our injuries, particularly Tracy's injuries. We can say all we want that elite point guards shouldn't have been concerned about being Tracy's back up, but I think it was a real thing and a big reason why Jawun Evans didn't come here. That's out of his control, but unfortunately, many casual fans and outsiders had the perception that he wasn't getting the job done. Once you lose momentum like that, it is almost impossible to get back.

If the next coach is able to generate the kind of momentum Groce did early in his tenure, and can also get next year's group to duplicate the same success that Groce's first year team did, that should absolutely propel us back into the top of the B1G, because we will return that entire roster for the 2018-19 season.
 
#168      

Se Il Illini

Se Il Illini
Se Il Illini
The last I checked John Groce was the Illinois coach during the last 5 years. The Illinois program had major problems when he arrived. He failed to fix these problems sufficiently in the eyes of the AD. So he was relieved of his duties.
 
#169      

jwalkermuse21

J
jwalkermuse21
Unfortunately we missed on the top recruits, but at the same time we failed to grab recruits with upsides and really failed to develop the ones we have now. Sad to see plenty of players from the state of Illinois playing the in the tournament, but none for the Illini.
 
#170      

illini80

illini80
Forgottonia
illini80
Well now I guess we can add one more thread to the volumes of "Fire Weber" threads in the archives. Thanks so much for helping us all to re-live that.
 
#171      

Roundball Shaman

R
Roundball Shaman
jwalkermuse21 said:
Unfortunately we missed on the top recruits, but at the same time we failed to grab recruits with upsides and really failed to develop the ones we have now. Sad to see plenty of players from the state of Illinois playing the in the tournament, but none for the Illini.
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For me, this has been the worst thing about the slide of the Illini from the Elite status that I for one expect of them. Seeing all this great Illinois talent get away year after year. While these young men have to do what they believe is right for their future, it is in the best interest of the U of I to offer these men a great opporunity In-State by providing a top bball environment at Champaign. I am tired of seeing the State of Illinois be the farm team for the nation.
 
#172      

GForce

GForce
GForce
Pardon me if this was already posted, but is Jamall Walker the first AA head basketball coach at UI, even if on an interim basis? Was McClain appointed interim HC back when?
 
#174      

illynifan34

I
That's a winner!!
OH
illynifan34
GForce said:
Pardon me if this was already posted, but is Jamall Walker the first AA head basketball coach at UI, even if on an interim basis? Was McClain appointed interim HC back when?
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Jerrance was the interim coach after Weber was fired
 
#175      

geneseo

G
geneseo
Golfer63 said:
+1

I get really annoyed by people who say that Groce has "ran this program into the ground" and act as if our next coach has a full on complete Mizzou-esque rebuild on their hands. Honestly, I just see it as a childish tantrum-like point of view to push an agenda of trying to say "Groce is the worst coach in the history of basketball."

The program is certainly not in a great place right now, but it is definitely in a BETTER place than it was back in 2012. Could you imagine if our next coach was able to duplicate the success that Groce had back in his first year? That coach would be bringing back that ENTIRE TEAM the following year. That would make the 2018-19 team a certain pre-season top 15 pick and many experts dark horse Final Four pick.

Groce didn't ruin our program. Weber did, and I can guarantee you the program would be in much worse shape right now if Weber was still our coach today. Guys like Kendrick Nunn, Leron Black, JCL, Cliff Alexander, Juwan Evans, and Elijah Thomas would have laughed and hung up the phone if Weber ever tried to recruit them.
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Maybe it was both... the old one-two punch.