From that seat map you linked, it looks like each of the nine sections (101-109) have 25 rows (51-75) under the overhang, so there are several more seats than your estimate that are obscured by the balcony, further proving your point.Yep, I am not an architect, and this certainly won't be done with my money... but the fixes needed to at least make Memorial Stadium "good enough" really don't seem that hard. The space and "bones" are there, and we really do not need to tear too much down or replace too much to have a VERY significant improvement.
I am not sure how many seats are in each row, but according to this seat map, there are nine sections (101-109) that each have nine rows (51-59) for a total of 81 rows underneath that overhang ... if you removed all of those and put them in front of and behind/above the current horseshoe seats, you do not have to increase capacity one single seat (and might even reduce it...), and yet you can make the stadium look infinitely better and more architecturally sensible.
Memorial Stadium Game Day Experience
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Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Yeah, once I started my aforementioned procrastination activity for the day, I quickly noticed that I hadn't even reached the seats under the overhang ... woof, that is a lot of wasted capacity on seats literally nobody wants.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Awesome, thanks for posting. Even though that top photo is pretty old, you can tell from that angle just how much better temporary bleachers would make that empty SEZ space look on TV and in person when it's filled with fans (and we rarely have trouble filling the horseshoe for a decent game). I mean, this just looks sad and small and ugly:
Even just filling that tiny space from the first row of fans to the ground with more orange shirts would make that end zone look unbelievably better.
EDIT: Well, I would still like to be able to divide it up using Excel, but Wikipedia has a nice breakdown of capacity:
East Stands: 28k (46%)
- East Lower: 18k (30%)
- East Balcony: 10k (16%)
West Stands: 18k (30%)
- West Lower: 13k (22%)
- West Balcony: 5k (8%)
South End Zone (Horseshoe): 9.8k (16%)
North End Zone (Students): 5k (8%)
The numbers won't add up perfectly, of course. So, we have almost half of our capacity in a space meant for 25% of it ... part of the symmetry issue. And, just guestimating here based on 33% of rows being under the overhang on the east side, but it seems likely that we have about 6k seats in that area. JOSH - MOVE THOSE TO THE HORSESHOE YESTERDAY! Lol.
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ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
That's the turd in the punchbowl sadly.this certainly won't be done with my money
Any reasonably comprehensive re-do at MS is going to be an extremely expensive undertaking requiring money we don't have.
For scale, the Ubben renovation was $40M, the Smith Center was $79M, and the planned South End Zone project (which was football facility + SEZ reno + some minor East side work) was originally quoted at $132M back in 2016 and was abandoned partially because the money wasn't there even in the throes of initial Loviemania.
To really do what it would take to make a facility like the ones you listed would involve lowering the field, re-doing both end zones from scratch, and probably re-profiling the lower stands on both sides plus the gut remodel of the East side. I can't imagine a number less than $300M which is simply money that doesn't exist.
You pay for these things largely by selling the premium seating you're creating. Our problem is that Ron Guenther used all of that up while not finishing the job. And Whitman's plan to leverage the donor momentum around a football facility to do some MS work has now gone by the wayside. And now NIL has come along to siphon funds from donors wallets directly into the competition rather than routing them through the facilities arms race. Even with the TV deal we're pretty tapped out.
Make no mistake, the hope at the DIA is that the Winning Fairy will come along and change the math for us. I hope so too.
In the meantime, I continue to think we have some self-help options here that aren't financial mistakes despite what a corporate consultant would tell you.
I think the thing with Auzten shows that it's not necessarily the number of fans that matters, but where they are. That place is a very compact bowl and everyone is right on top of the field. It's kind of like how you felt like you were in a bigger crowd in the old Stadium than you do in the United Center even though its listed capacity was about 5,000 less. That's one of the reasons the proposed horseshoe redevelopment was appealing to me, as it starts to correct earlier design decisions that keep fans a good distance from the field. (I love track and field, by the way, but leaving room for the track is an error you can't really undo. Maybe lower the field a bit more? I'm not an architect.)
I don't disagree with much that you've said here, but I'm split on the future of sports. My recent thinking on it has been dominated by the role of gambling, which is kinda similar in a sense to premium seating. The books make their real money on a small number of bettors, so you're seeing a lot more of the microtransaction model that tries to increase action from heavy gamblers pop up and it's impacting broadcasts and the gameday experience in a way that I think is a bit hostile to the rest of the audience. Part of me thinks that the combo of an emphasis on gambling, premium seating, and a continually increasing emphasis on activities unrelated to the sport during games is going to basically turn basketball into jai alai.
On the other hand, I think that improvements to the television viewing experience have offset those issues some. It's mostly HD technology that's done the heavy lifting, but there's also something to be said about being able to watch any game anywhere at any time (as long as you're willing to hunt down the game you want to see) that also increases interest. Basically, being an NBA fan is getting to be a less interesting proposition overall, but being a basketball fan has never been better in some respects. I watched the African club championship this summer, and it was pretty cool! I think there's also some evidence that access to the global soccer product is increasing the popularity of the domestic game, despite the best efforts of MLS to do sod all to sell their sport.
As a general thing I'd love to see the owners and networks get their comeuppance, just as a matter of general principles. Dunno how long that's going to take for it to actually happen, though.
I'm guessing that a major problem with those seats is that folks who were in them would stand for much of the game to get an actual view of the field, which in turn would require the people behind them to stand as well. I don't have a problem standing but I know it would get a lot of knickers twisted up if it was a persistent issue.
I went to grad school at a place where student football tickets were free. Most were claimed, but students frequently did not show up, or showed up late. The one thing you can say about selling them instead is that it creates an incentive to actually attend the game, even if you set a really low price like two bucks or something. Don't know if that's part of the calculus or not. I am definitely in favor of trying to find a price point generally that will get more butts in seats, tho.
Only wanted when it's raining. Joking, but I have had discussions with DIA facilities people on what a lousy idea it is to have wheelchair seating out in the wide open in the horseshoe. My son is wheelchair bound and sitting in the horseshoe is much too hot in nice weather, obviously not good in rain, and too exposed in cold weather. You'd think that we'd do better based on UIUC reputation as a pioneer in disability inclusion.
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Giving away tickets in the long run devalues them.
Of course, some things intrinsically have so little value they can’t be further devalued. We were at a UMd game where they were giving away a $2,000 (or was it $5,000?) to a random student who stuck around into the 4th quarter…and they tried three times without takers. And this at a game they were winning.
On the other hand, at PSU they had a lottery to see which students would get to buy tickets.
Giving away tickets for one game is different, of course, when the goal is to give the recipients a taste. The free student tickets for the Chattanooga game, a likely win (I won’t jinx the the game with anything more positive than that), worked to “sell out” a Thursday game. Let’s see what effect that has on future games.
If admission for the first two home games had been free, would it have meaningfully changed attendance?
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Giving tickets away devalues tickets. No one being at the game devalues being at the game. Pick your poison.
As one of my earlier walls of text (lol I really am sorry) described, I think some of the particular weirdness of MS creates opportunities to use unconventionally low pricing to get people in the door without making every seat worthless.
I'm surprised there aren't more MLB-like conversations about how insanely long college football games are. As someone whose consumption pattern is sitting around all day Saturday freebasing every game on TV, the fact that they can't hit a 3 hour window and all bleed into each other is great for me.
But the games are routinely four hours long now. That's a really long time to do something outside in variable weather.
If you'd made a public show of moving the students out of the NEZ, and made some advertising effort letting the students know they can just show up for free and the school wants them there? You'd get more students.
If you get it out there that NEZ seats are $10 for the general public? You'll draw people in, probably a lot of locals.
It'll just create more action. We need more action.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
in fall of 1982, I was a Sr . WE were all of a sudden good again. There was a student lottery for good tickets. We got lucky and got like #6. we had 4 tickets in row 2 of the east balacony at the south side 40. was pretty sweet .
first game of the season was home vs MSU. Hot day - like 90. We saw the referee fall over dead of a heart attack in the 1st or 2nd qtr. Pretty sure we won. we were painted up 1/2 blue and 1/2 orange that game - this was before that was a thing to do .
Bringing in recruits to a half-filled stadium and then the next week they go to a full stadium is not helpful. To sell future success on the field is one thing but having to sell future attendance is embarrassing. Put butts in the seats now however you have to and when we win consistently, we can then move on to another thing that needs to be fixed!
Better yet, cover the NEZ with tarps, with distracting ones—e.g., two huge eyeballs—when the opposing team is facing north.
LGIllini
- La Grange, IL
I love the idea of putting bleachers in the SEZ and bringing in students from Illinois high schools. Maybe they can give an allotment of tickets and a couple buses to the high school of every Freshman player from Illinois - the player could even "host" kids from their high school. Would build up goodwill with the high schools and create new fans and loyalty among the students.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
This is the type of amazing-yet-simple idea that I simply cannot believe someone in the DIA has not thought of. As has been stated, we cannot create wins out of thin air, and we cannot grow money on trees. What we CAN do is try to slowly foster the following two VERY essential and emotional ideas within Illinoisans from Chicago to Cairo:
1) Memorial Stadium is a good time with a fun atmosphere.
2) The University of Illinois at the very least wants to be the on-field/sports standard bearer for every Illinoisan regardless of where he/she goes/went to college, and therefore as an Illinoisan, you should grow up an Illini fan.
re: marketing and promotion. Free tickets is still an individual or few deciding to go vs. a (must attend) social event. I attended 83-91 (4 years grad school) when attending was "must"- season tickets every year - for FB always had to get in on someone else's lottery number as I never had a good number. I started as adjunct faculty last semester. I didn't receive any welcome or promos to come to any sporting/Krannert events, a discount for your first game - nothing. We have 500 majors, faculty of 10, a club of 300. The club does many social activities over the year that 200+ attend many of the events. Over summer I emailed suggestion to Athletic Office of having "Club/Major Day" stating I'd like to think that if for "Club Day" that our club planned a FB tailgate & game, that we'd get 200. Then multiply by many clubs. None of the other faculty have ever been to a FB or BB or VB or ... game. My fall classes total 120, I do online polling during class. I took poll class before Wyoming if going to game: yes = 10, no = 110. I will poll next week but I don't think "free" tickets moved the needle. Free and "Club Day" would. BTW, women's vollyball has a promotion most every game - they have a club day and club with most in attendance gets $200.
Illinois vs Chattanooga, Thursday, September 22nd, 7:30pm CT, BTN
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/page/cfb150players/the-150-greatest-players-college-football-150-year-history If anyone wants to peruse the whole list. Ludicrously biased in favor of players with legendary NFL careers (Emmitt Smith ahead of Tim Tebow!) but a fun scroll...
www.illinoisloyalty.com
When blown up it appears that there are a lot of empty suites at the Virginia game.
The Athletic Department should have people physically go to every fraternity, every sorority, every residence hall, attend the first meeting of every club on campus promoting the program and selling tickets. Bring back Tailgreat, bring back Pork Day, give tickets to high school football teams in Chicago, etc who may never have another opportunity to see the campus, etc. Set up seminars for the foreign students on American football. Put the students back in the main stands. If you don't have a great product, you need great marketing and sales, which we are sorely lacking
The athletic department doesn’t have the staff to do this…but there’s undoubtedly an army of willing students.
For off-campus groups, such as high school football teams, that could be part of all the coaches’ regional contacts. When they’re talking to the HS coaches, make the invitation. And for those who attend, put the school/mascot names on the Jumbotron. What a way to say “welcome.” And none of this costs anything.
Re foreign students, I remember this being done a few years ago.
I still want to put students in the East Balcony…and I want them to challenge the West Main and Balcony to an ILL-INI contest. You can’t do that well with the students in the NEZ.
But where are the marketing students at Geis? Shouldn’t they be taking this on?
Isn’t there something in the Bible about a bush on fire?
DeonThomas
- South Carolina
Ditto for me. Is this not happening any longer? Thanks to the inconspicuous wine skin back in the day (and having a roommate who sold programs at MS before the game, with the ability to smuggle alcohol inside) I'm speculating that I probably didn't recall walking home after 80% of games I attended. Perfect attendance over 4-1/2 years on campus btw!
Before reading all of these comments pertaining to student attendance/participation, I would have naively speculated that 20,000-30,000 current students are buying discounted tickets and attending each game. The rationale:
- What else is there to do on game day? Basketball games are often on week nights, but 98% of our home FB games are on Saturdays.
- School spirit?
- Tailgating and alcohol?
- Fun and entertainment?
- An all day mega party?
- Doesn't this constitute at least 10% of the reason that HS students choose to go to Champaign-Urbana? (It certainly was for me.)
Since my days on campus, I've always assumed it was alumni sitting in the West stands, students & band in the East stands, with the casual fans nabbing tickets wherever they could get them --- and then recently perhaps the equivalent of Orange Crush in the north end zone (not sure when this change was made). Is this generally how our seating capacity is disbursed?
30k - East side
20k - West side
5k - NEZ
5k - SEZ
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