Michigan 13, Western Michigan 12

#226      
HereSoIDontGetFined
BoiseBaller said:
If this is their “evidence”….wow. They used a camera angle where the defenders body blocks the view of the ball. This is just more damning evidence that it was an awful call.
Click to expand...
Awful call driven by bias toward bigger, storied schools.

If this had been the opposite - WMU throwing a hail Mary - the game would have been over.

If this was Illinois throwing a hail Mary, the game would have been over.

If this had been Ohio State, the game would have continued and the Buckeyes would have been given another shot.

That's really what happened here. On a bang bang call, the "better" school was given another shot and it flipped the result of the game.
 
#227      
ChiefGritty
sbillini said:
1) during the broadcast of the last play, they didn’t show the clock in the bottom ribbon like usual. It specifically looked like a direct view of the stadium clock. Was that not the case? Because on that feed it obviously looked like zeros. If it wasn’t a direct feed, do we have any shots of both the stadium clock and the play itself in the same view? Or at least truly and verifiably synced? Looking at the replay posted by rittenberg, it looks like the replay officials are legitimately making the right call.
Click to expand...
The Big Ten statement claimed the stadium clock (which the broadcast clock is just an altered graphic of) and the clock the replay booth uses are synced before the game.

That seems to have failed.

Begging the question, why does the replay booth clock have authority over the game clock? Surely it doesn't.

But above all else, nobody asked for this lawyered-within-an-inch-of-its-life rulemaxxing around the 3,600th of 3,600 seconds in a football game that isn't present in the other 3,599. Football does not want or need this.

It was a disgraceful farce last night. The Fifth Down Game was an embarrassment to college football, in a stupid lo-fi way that is in some sense true to the sport. There's something much more wicked and inhuman about this.
 
#229      
sbillini
ChiefGritty said:
The Big Ten statement claimed the stadium clock (which the broadcast clock is just an altered graphic of) and the clock the replay booth uses are synced before the game.

That seems to have failed.

Begging the question, why does the replay booth clock have authority over the game clock? Surely it doesn't.

But above all else, nobody asked for this lawyered-within-an-inch-of-its-life rulemaxxing around the 3,600th of 3,600 seconds in a football game that isn't present in the other 3,599. Football does not want or need this.

It was a disgraceful farce last night. The Fifth Down Game was an embarrassment to college football, in a stupid lo-fi way that is in some sense true to the sport. There's something much more wicked and inhuman about this.
Click to expand...
I think your assertion that the broadcast clock is just an altered graphic of the stadium clock is potentially incorrect and the crux of the issue here.


Regarding the rest of your post, we can debate the broader philosophical implications of this all day separately, I’m just trying Understand what actually happened here and if the right call was indeed made.
 
#231      
Oracle21
it sucks for WMU but I think the way Hail Marys are defended in college is not the way teams should do it. We saw it in our game and in this game. Since PI is only a 15 yard penalty in college, and not a spot foul, I think if you are the defense you either need to risk penalties to make sure the WR has no chance to catch it, or you blitz and make the QB throw it short and depend on laterals to score. WMU played it straight and got burned by a better athlete jumping over their guys
 
#232      
ChiefGritty
sbillini said:
I think your assertion that the broadcast clock is just an altered graphic of the stadium clock is incorrect and the crux of the issue here.
Click to expand...
That's my understanding of how it's done in the business. Regardless, the TV replays were just synced to a direct shot of the stadium clock. The stadium clock hit zeroes while the ball was in the air.

There needs to be a rule about when a play ends in order to manage end-of-half scenarios, I understand that. But the sport just doesn't want or need what we saw last night.

Because in addition to all the rest of it, we all know what this means. Every failed hail mary is now going to be subject to five minutes of replay because of the inability of those officials to exercise judgment.
 
#233      
sbillini
ChiefGritty said:
That's my understanding of how it's done in the business. Regardless, the TV replays were just synced to a direct shot of the stadium clock. The stadium clock hit zeroes while the ball was in the air.

There needs to be a rule about when a play ends in order to manage end-of-half scenarios, I understand that. But the sport just doesn't want or need what we saw last night.

Because in addition to all the rest of it, we all know what this means. Every failed hail mary is now going to be subject to five minutes of replay because of the inability of those officials to exercise judgment.
Click to expand...
You keep saying the stadium clocks hit zero. I have searched and have yet to find a replay showing both the ball touching and the stadium clock in the same shot. That’s the question here. You’re assuming what nbc showed is the stadium clock. If you just look at the twitter post I shared, it seems to show that nbc was indeed not showing the stadium clock had independent timing.

If that’s the case, the simple solution is having a direct camera shot of the stadium clock and a 2 minute segment before every game proving to the fans that that camera shot is to synced to the game. If what the evidence seems to show is true, that’s the only way for the pitchforks to lot immediately come out
 
#234      
Brad Gagnon's wife
I am 1000% Illini true blue & orange and NOT a Michigan hater nor a Michigan lover, but if you don't believe Illinois or any other B1G team playing an upset minded nobody game one would've gotten the same "decision/review/call" you are fooling yourself. It is simply a PAY DAY for Western Michigan. Look at the amount of $ these non conference road opponents receive. It's a business nothing more nothing less.
 
#235      
ChiefGritty
sbillini said:
I have searched and have yet to find a replay showing both the ball touching and the stadium clock in the same shot.
Click to expand...

Is the replay NBC showed after the play not sufficient for you?

HRgHiTEWMAQPVkB
 
#236      
sbillini
ChiefGritty said:

Is the replay NBC showed after the play not sufficient for you?

HRgHiTEWMAQPVkB
Click to expand...
No. That’s my entire point lol. That’s the question I asked in the beginning. Apparently that’s not the stadium clock. Look at the x post I shared.
 
#237      
TheChief4Life
Oracle21 said:
it sucks for WMU but I think the way Hail Marys are defended in college is not the way teams should do it. We saw it in our game and in this game. Since PI is only a 15 yard penalty in college, and not a spot foul, I think if you are the defense you either need to risk penalties to make sure the WR has no chance to catch it, or you blitz and make the QB throw it short and depend on laterals to score. WMU played it straight and got burned by a better athlete jumping over their guys
Click to expand...
The ball was short. It looked like WMU actually had pressure on Underwood, he chucked it up, it was about a yard short of the goalline, and Michigan had a guy in front of the WMU defenders. He caught it falling into the endzone. I don't view that as anyone jumping over anyone else. WMU didn't do a terrible job on that play. Just, not necessarily a good job.
 
#239      
ChiefGritty
sbillini said:
No. That’s my entire point lol. That’s the question I asked in the beginning. Apparently that’s not the stadium clock. Look at the x post I shared.
Click to expand...
The one about it counting from 9 to 8 too fast? That was the scorebug version (which in any event shouldn't have any discrepancy with the stadium clock), but on the replay, and in the image I posted above, that's just a camera on the stadium clock, which is supposed to be the official authority on time.
 
#240      
gibb52
Maybe I'm not understanding the ruling but in the replay the WMU player is in the air when he makes contact with the ball. How would anyone know he was OOB until his feet touch? The clock hits zero while the ball is still in the air, then he touches it before his feet touch ground OOB. By that time 2 seconds have elapsed it seems to me. Very sketchy officiating. IL getting that call at home? Purdue? Minnesota? Zero chance.
 
#241      
sbillini
ChiefGritty said:
The one about it counting from 9 to 8 too fast? That was the scorebug version (which in any event shouldn't have any discrepancy with the stadium clock), but on the replay, and in the image I posted above, that's just a camera on the stadium clock, which is supposed to be the official authority on time.
Click to expand...
The x post shows it on both the scorebug and the secondary clock on the replay. It shows the same thing.

Now the other theory would be that the stadium clocks operator incorrectly set the clock and nbc was indeed synced. But that’s only proven if there’s a shot of both the play and the stadium clock in the same frame. I haven’t been able to find that.

Ultimately, at least one clock was incorrectly set after the spike. Seems most likely it was the nbc one
 
#242      
sbillini
gibb52 said:
Maybe I'm not understanding the ruling but in the replay the WMU player is in the air when he makes contact with the ball. How would anyone know he was OOB until his feet touch? The clock hits zero while the ball is still in the air, then he touches it before his feet touch ground OOB. By that time 2 seconds have elapsed it seems to me. Very sketchy officiating. IL getting that call at home? Purdue? Minnesota? Zero chance.
Click to expand...
The wmu player stepped out of bounds before jumping. The ball was out of bounds the moment he touched it given he never re-established himself inbounds.
 
#244      
ChiefGritty
sbillini said:
he stadium clocks operator incorrectly set the clock

Ultimately, at least one clock was incorrectly set after the spike.
Click to expand...
So what? That's not relevant to the end of the play.

sbillini said:
we can debate the broader philosophical implications of this all day separately
Click to expand...
The desire to use technology and lawyering to abstract away from the purpose of the rules and the sport is why our beloved games (and so much else besides) are in such a sorry state in 2026.
 
#247      
TheChief4Life
ChiefGritty said:
The desire to use technology and lawyering to abstract away from the purpose of the rules and the sport is why our beloved games (and so much else besides) are in such a sorry state in 2026.
Click to expand...
Why have rules if they aren't going to be enforced though? You can't create rules with hidden "purposes". If there are rules, and they are meant to enforce a purpose, then the rule needs to state that purpose. When rules state something besides the purpose, or the purpose is enforced instead of the wording, that's when lawyering and technology get involved. And the sport is better for it.

Enforcing "purposes" instead of rules is why we are in the state we are in.
 
#248      
sbillini
ChiefGritty said:
You don't go back to the beginning of the play and calculate out 9 full seconds after the fact, those aren't the rules.

If the clock got set to 8.0000001 seconds, that does seem incorrect, but that doesn't mean the game isn't over when it hits 0:00.
Click to expand...


Again, I’m trying to understand if the right call was made or not. I’m not trying to just get ammo for my philosophical beliefs regardless of what the truth is.

Obviously going back and timing things to see if the right call was made is not the rules. Nobody is arguing for that. I’m trying to understand where the discrepancy lies so we can hopefully better understand the issue. That’s the only way to try to help make things better.

There is obviously a discrepancy here - the x post proves this, and it’s with clock operation. I think you and I agree on that (I say I think cuz I’m not really sure what you’re trying to argue). The question is whether the discrepancy lies with nbc or the stadium clock operator. If it’s nbc, then the absolute right call was made and the system worked as intended. If it was the stadium clock operator that’s a different story. But the evidence suggests it’s nbc.
 
#249      
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr?
ChiefGritty said:
You don't go back to the beginning of the play and calculate out 9 full seconds after the fact, those aren't the rules.

If the clock got set to 8.0000001 seconds, that does seem incorrect, but that doesn't mean the game isn't over when it hits 0:00.
Click to expand...
It shows that the broadcast clock on NBC was not in sync with the official game clock the refs were saying.

The TV clock went from 9 seconds to 8 seconds too quickly.
 
#250      
ChiefGritty
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr? said:
It shows that the broadcast clock on NBC was not in sync with the official game clock the refs were saying.

The TV clock went from 9 seconds to 8 seconds too quickly.
Click to expand...
Be that as it may, as the replay direct on the stadium clock shows, that's what was on the stadium clock.

The footage released by the Big Ten shows the replay officials working with a differently synced clock (they refer to it as the "program feed" in the audio). It's not 9/10ths of a second different mind you as if the post-spike re-set got out of order, it's just like a frame or two different, perhaps two tenths.

The stadium clock is supposed to be the authority. Both in a literal rule-based sense and in any cosmic metaphysical sense.
 
Back