I think the team has quit on him with the exception of Hill, Te'Jon, Kipper, and Morgan(he never could play defense). I think everyone else is just in their own world as they freelance and don't stick to whatever Groce's gameplan is.
Michigan 66, Illinois 57 POSTGAME
I think the team has quit on him with the exception of Hill, Te'Jon, Kipper, and Morgan(he never could play defense). I think everyone else is just in their own world as they freelance and don't stick to whatever Groce's gameplan is.
So why can't Groce and his staff do it?
They don't seem to be able to grasp the most basic principles of offensive scheme, defense of any kind, or motivation of their players on a consistent basis.
I'm sincerely puzzled.....
Can't argue, but good coaches don't let their teams quit on them. Motivation and buy in is still on the coaching staff.
The Dave
- CA
Do they even teach how to rebound any more? When I was young (oh those many moons ago). As soon as that ball went up you found the closest man, stuck your rump on him, and went for the ball.
The poor rebounding yesterday was a complete lack of boxing out. Like they thought what happened the last time they played Michigan would just magically happen again without putting any effort in to it.
The poor rebounding yesterday was a complete lack of boxing out. Like they thought what happened the last time they played Michigan would just magically happen again without putting any effort in to it.
I wouldn't want to be working with the people trying to sell basketball season tickets for next year. As they make their calls I can imagine only 3 responses....
Crickets, laughter, or swearing followed by laughter.
Didn't see the whole game. What was the reason for Black only playing 13 minutes?
Good question. Would love to hear an answer.
It's really, really difficult. Difference-making coaching ability at this level is very rare. You have to do about a million things well all at once. The evidence is that Groce just isn't quite good enough.
Overblown.....both players are playing ok overall with some bad games here and there. Which Bradley rotation guy could put up 15 and 11 vs FSU and their front line and would be among hte best rebounders in the b10 ? Leron is averaging nearly 10 and 7, that is fine production for a soph (especially coming off so much time off/injured, etc). Someone posted on another board the PFs in his class who were in the top 60 leron had similar or better stats than most of them
JCL has had some bad games here and htere, but to call him a bradley rotation player is ridiculous.
And 11-29 on the road in the conference as Illinois' head coach. Abysmal.
Here's the thing though, if he's " lost the team" what happened to personal pride? I remember a time when I was younger and our team had no confidence in our coach but every man on our team still went out worked hard simply out of pride. We never failed to give it our best. Granted I was a swimmer, which is more of an individual sport, but I think the point still translates. We did what we could within the system, knowing full well there were holes in his coaching philosophy. Is it a generational thing?
We Lost Again?
Wow....I've now been an avid Illini fan since 1980. I live in Florida and all my friends and family know my winter ritual. Game time...Beer on the Lanai in my Illini Tervis Tumbler cup... My Illini Sweater on and while I could be on my boat or walk to the beach in 3 minutes....I watch and cherish the games because it is in my blood. Can we realize it is a game....and boy do I hate to lose...but it is a game. How in the world does Groce teach a person on a full scholarship how to catch a basketball? Or to pass....my comment to my friend yesterday they are a good team with one problem...they can't make baskets. I think it is the players...my only thoughts are..everyone seems to play Freshman...MSU etcetera...Our Illini Sophmores are literally freshman when they become Sophmores....If Groce is pressured to only put up wins and not play the freshman this team is not allowing itself to develop....Why play Abrams and Tate? This is not a farewell tour and who cares if we lose? We will win with the new kids if they are allowed to play...what prompted me posting?
http://www.thechampaignroom.com/2017/1/21/14347582/illinois-john-groce-wins
I am one fan who does not want to start over again..and I do not turn off games at halftime!! Good Luck Illini
Wow....I've now been an avid Illini fan since 1980. I live in Florida and all my friends and family know my winter ritual. Game time...Beer on the Lanai in my Illini Tervis Tumbler cup... My Illini Sweater on and while I could be on my boat or walk to the beach in 3 minutes....I watch and cherish the games because it is in my blood. Can we realize it is a game....and boy do I hate to lose...but it is a game. How in the world does Groce teach a person on a full scholarship how to catch a basketball? Or to pass....my comment to my friend yesterday they are a good team with one problem...they can't make baskets. I think it is the players...my only thoughts are..everyone seems to play Freshman...MSU etcetera...Our Illini Sophmores are literally freshman when they become Sophmores....If Groce is pressured to only put up wins and not play the freshman this team is not allowing itself to develop....Why play Abrams and Tate? This is not a farewell tour and who cares if we lose? We will win with the new kids if they are allowed to play...what prompted me posting?
http://www.thechampaignroom.com/2017/1/21/14347582/illinois-john-groce-wins
I am one fan who does not want to start over again..and I do not turn off games at halftime!! Good Luck Illini
After this game I was thinking about a lot of things. First and foremost, I considered this a must win game for the Illini to advance into the NCAA Tournament. Secondly, I don't think the Illini can continue under this coach. As stated earlier, he is a likable man who brings young men into the program by his personality. However, for all his intensity, he lacks the coaching ability as well as the ability to motivate his recruits to move the program forward. My final thought is that Illini basketball has reached a critical decision point, with three choices: 1) Fire Groce and risk losing next year's recruits as well future recruits he has built a relationship with and possible defections from this year's team. 2) Keep Groce, mandate he make wholesale changes to his coaching staff, and roll the dice that these changes will serve to prepare and motivate the team. 3) Keep Groce, keep the coaching staff, bring in the recruits. Basically, punt and do nothing. However, I'm afraid this will lead to more of the same type of embarrassing play we are witnessing this season.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
I'm confused? Is it a magic sweater?
Should we all pitch in and get you an Illini T-shirt? Tank top?
Board shorts?
The Dave
- CA
I've watched every minute of every game this year. I even paid for the extra BTN package to watch those 2 games on the "student developed BTN".
I hate that I care so much and that this all hurts so much. I wish I didn't care, but I can't stop. I love Basketball. I love the UofI. I REALLLY love UofI Basketball no matter how bad it gets.
Hang in there, this is about as bad as it can get. I see very few winnable games ahead so my expectations are low. It's time for change and we get someone in here that can turn it around.
Exaggerated for effect. Guilty.
But these 2 should be at a level where they form a 3 player threat alongside Malcolm. They aren't newbies anymore. While both have had several stellar moments neither is the player we thought they'd be. Way too many no show nights for both.
I can't help thinking both would be tearing it up right now somewhere else.
One of my biggest gripes with coach is the lack of accountability during games for players. Bo Ryan is the famous basis for comparison -- he'd regularly bench guys, even just for a brief minute, when they gave up careless TOs, took bad shots, failed to box out, etc. Has Groce ever done anything like that? I think it's a reason we fail to make winning plays to stop runs, close games, etc with any regularity.
Obviously players have to execute, but being focused on minutiae like that is a culture thing that we have failed to establish. JMO
Actually, no, this is *not* a "good team" and secondly they can make baskets (or did you miss the 64% shooting from the floor, 64% shooting from 3 pt range the first time that this Illini team played Michigan?).
Putting this on the players is a huge cop out. Someone is making $1.7M a year to produce a competitive product and yet in his 5th season as the head coach his team has at some point been down by more than 20 points in each of the four B1G road games that the Illini have played so far this season.
How sad is it that the best player on the team, B1G POY candidate Malcolm Hill is actually a Bruce Weber recruit? How nice is it to have an example of a player who was recruited by another coach stay for the coaching change?
Even if you believe that the state of the program is the fault of the players, in year 5 whose fault is that then? The fact that 2 of the 5 starters are still Weber recruits speaks volumes.
Go through the list of B1G coaches and tell me who you would rate Groce above? I think that you'll quickly find that Groce's Illini teams, regardless of the players, tend to fall just about where the coach rates among his B1G peers.
[This article rates Groce 10th: http://athlonsports.com/college-basketball/ranking-big-ten-basketball-coaches-2015-16 and Wisconsin's replacement deserves to stay in front of him and likely Collins will deserve to be placed ahead of him too by the time the season is over.]
No one likes starting over, but unless you're happy with the Illini consistently finishing in the bottom 3rd of the conference, it looks like that's what's going to be needed.
In terms of cost? Groce has a $500K bonus coming up if he's still employed in April. This season the Illini have 17 regular season home games(plus two home exhibition games). Just over the 17 games, say attendance drops to 12,500 which is 3,000 below the stated 15,500 capacity. That's 51,000 empty seats. At $33 a ticket that already covers the coach's $1.7M per year salary. It's expensive to have a non-performing coach, not only in terms of salary but also in terms of other sources of lost revenue to the program.
Unless the coaching staff figures it out soon, the AD is smart enough not to let this continue further. If he doesn't fire Groce, then he has to pay out a bonus *plus* extend his contract, otherwise the lack of a contract extension would be used to recruit against Groce and the program would just continue to slide further.
I don't think it's a generational thing. You've got kids with tons of other things on their minds too from school to women to friends to family and so I can see how it is easy to go through the motions. This is where you see players tune out their coaches if they have lost their faith and no longer believe in whatever it is that the coach is trying to get across.
We need to start over. Nobody ever wants to start over, but it is time. Groce, for all of his rah rah and coach-speak has proven that he cannot take this program to the next level, much less a bubble-level. How many years and how many more 20+ pt. blowout games will it take to convince you that Groce is not the answer?
He had 1 simple task, get a team full of seniors and upperclassmen to the NCAA tournament. He cannot hide behind injuries any longer. His coaching, or lack thereof, is sticking out like a sore thumb. This truly is unacceptable for this once proud program. He has brought in a couple good recruiting classes and he seems to not be able to develop them well. So, that is an indictment on him and his staff and nothing that has gone on this year leaves me optimistic for future recruiting classes.
Illiniaaron
- Geneseo, IL
I did not watch the first half of the game Saturday but turned it on with about 18 minutes left in the second half. From that mark until there was about 4 minutes left was some of the most sloppy and disinterested play I've seen since Groce was hired. And there is a lot of film that could compete with it unfortunately. It's one thing to get pummeled by Purdue but another to get blown out on the road again by a team that really isn't very good. This was the first time I thought it looked like the team had quit on Groce. I don't see any way this team can recover.