It is absolutely time for a change, end of discussion. One NCAA in five years, inability to get a true point guard in the system until year five. Maybe not top 10 talent, but decent enough talent with Hill, Black, Williams, Coleman-Lands, Morgan, Finke, Nichols and Lucas, along with Abrams back and having some really good moments early and late. I don't want a bunch of excuses or reasons to keep bringing him back like we saw with Weber or the program will sink even lower than it is. Heck, I would be happy with an unproven assistant in Roger Powell before bring a proven underachiever back in Groce. Next, please.
Michigan 75, Illinois 55 POSTGAME
Haven't read the thread in detail, but Mich sure made it easy for JW to fire JG if that's what he wants to do. As for the possibility of losing recruits, I think they are at risk regardless of whether JG stays or goes. I always liked JG's character and hoped that he would be our coach, but it is quite evident that the program is not going anywhere under his stewardship. Keeping him around would be quite an uphill battle. I'll be surprised if JG isn't let go by the end of the NIT at the latest.
How does one explain the horrific games today by Hill, Black, and Morgan. They played
like freshmen. I imagine that Groce was coaching them down so he could get fired.
like freshmen. I imagine that Groce was coaching them down so he could get fired.
Morgan's performance is especially disappointing considering how badly he worked over Wagner when we beat them at home. I know they were coming with a double team on him, but after the first or second time we should have been able to adjust to that and find the open man.
Groce isn't coaching a team full of Freshmen to the NCAA's next year anyways. That would be 5 years in a row without reaching a tournament for him. Do they bring him back again the next year then? You can keep playing this game every year. It's time to let him go.
This x1000
It seems as though well over 90% of the posters want JG gone NO MATTER WHAT. I just don't get that. To think we will keep the recruits in place is naive. If JW can find the coach out there that can accomplish this, I'm 100% behind a coaching change.
However, if that's not a guarantee and we have to start over and "hope" the next coach can recruit, coach and win, I don't get why we start over when JG does have a great group of freshman and sophomores and an excellent recruiting class on the way.
Very easy for JW to keep the recruiting class here next year if he can't find the grand slam hire. JG stays on and you do the same thing you did with football, force an assistant change and pay the best X's and O's coach a boatload for a year and see what happens.
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There's been talent in the program. Groce has always recruited well enough to get into the tournament. He's just an awful coach and needs to go.
I marvel at optimism for next year with Groce as the coach.
It's time to make a move if there is the right move to be made. Do your search and if one of your top 5 will take it, do what needs to be done. If nobody on that list is available, you keep what you got and keep the recruits. Worst thing to do would be settle for 6-7 and find out they are not any better, while also losing your recruits and locking into another 5 years of mediocrity.
Not scared to make a change, just want to make the right change at the right time!
Not scared to make a change, just want to make the right change at the right time!
Do you have examples of mass recruit exoduses due to a coaching change? I can't find the post know, but someone a while ago in the coaching carousel thread put together a list, and it doesn't happen often.
Also, if you listen to Derek Piper and Jeremy Werner, they seem to think it's likely everyone will keep their commitment with a coaching change, especially if Tilmon if Walker is retained. The only one that were sure about was Frazier, but they also added that he seemed to love Illinois.
edit: Just found the post : http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=1270817&postcount=3305
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McColley: It’s not that they lost, it’s how they lost
Some great quotes on why Groce isn't going to get any better:
Some great quotes on why Groce isn't going to get any better:
Does this mean we don't have to hear about the ladder anymore?
Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Having thought about this for no more than these last 15 seconds, I have to wonder if that's not fairly common in college ball. Anyone happen to know?
May be common in unsuccessful coaches, but I have never known a good coach who doesn't make in game adjustments.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
So Groce couldn't coach one of the top 10 Illinois players of all time along with 6th year experience and plenty of athleticism on the bench to a .500 Big10 record, let alone a NCAA Tourney berth...but he is going to take this incoming class and coach them to the top of the Big10?
I'd say there's a less than 25% chance of that happening based on the last 5 years.
I'd say there's a less than 25% chance of that happening based on the last 5 years.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
Cheez
- Sun Prairie WI
Missed the boat on "the right time" already. Change ideally should have been made after last season - but Whitman was in no position to replace both the football and basketball coach.
Ubermensch
BOOM! Feed my ego.
Probably so. I guess it depends on what one means by "adjustments." Switch from high-low to an inverted offense in the middle of a game, or simply trying to work the ball inside when the threes aren't falling?
I completely disagree. I wouldn't be surprised if Groce turned things around for a few reasons. First is that almost all players love to play for him and most coaches have nothing but great respect for him. You don't get that if you're a lousy coach. Also, he's a teacher and passionate about basketball. We all have seen how hard he coaches/recruits and this leads me to believe he will keep working to get better.
The question is whether Whitman wants to wait and see if Groce has learned from his mistakes. And after seeing how he handled the football hire, I will trust whatever Whitman decides to do. I just hope everyone else can do the same. If Groce stays then support him and the team, because coaches do improve.
Also, some fans are acting like we are at rock bottom. We are far away from where we were 12 years ago, but it could be much much worse.
Im telling you, if he is gone it may ultimately be a good thing for the program but take a look at this "great" class we have and a solid core of underclassmen because just a few months from now, it could all be totally, totally different.
This is all just a nightmare. I keep telling myself that.
ChiefIlliniwek
- Omaha, Nebraska
Illinois should not be a program where in year 5 of a coaching regime you are hoping the coach has learned from his mistakes. Coaches learn from their mistakes to improve... and THEN they come to Illinois. It's sad that the program now feels the need to be patient through any sort of learning curve.
illini80
- Forgottonia
Yes, it could be worse. We could have no talent on the team and be losing. Instead we have talent, and are still losing. That should make the job more appealing to coaching candidate. This is the perfect time to make the change imo.
Every has loved him and he's worked hard for 5 years and he still managed to miss 4 straight NCAA tournaments, so why those things mean he can turn it around now is just baffling. I love Groce, but we have to let him go. One great recruiting class is not worth a coach who cannot coach.
Illini34
- Champaign, IL
I still just can't get over the fact that in this game you had everything working in your favor with all that went on with Michigan and you pretty much get run out of the building in a must win game. The way they played is ultimately going to get JG fired. 3 coaches I'd like to see here: Archie Miller, Bryce Drew, or Cuonzo Martin. An out of left field hire depending on how their season unfolds down the stretch I'd go with Billy Donovan.