trying to make my way thru the comments but decided to chime in .... in the 10-20 seconds beforehand, Gard is shaking each MI player's hand and also places his left hand on their right shoulder as he says something. Other than Howard not accepting the offered handshake, Gard's left hand placement appears to be the same as with the players and not a grab. Gard did "force" the handshake exchange on Howard
Michigan coach Juwan Howard takes swing at Wisconsin assistant coach
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altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Regarding "high horses" I haven't seen much of that here. I've seen lot of people, me included, who note that it's probably desirable to have a high standard of conduct for an adult man leading a group of postadolescent athletes routinely appearing on a national stage having a substantial following, and that the ability to govern emotions, especially when provoked, and refrain from physical violence toward another player or adult is equally desirable. I don't understand how anyone who watches any amount of college basketball can fail to discern that Juwan has an unusual hair trigger temper and has behaved inappropriately within the norms of the game and the culture on several notable occasions, even by the debased standards we accept today.
If that's a high horse, I'm happy to saddle up on it, deploy my spurs on its hindquarters, and head off into the hills.
As for incorrect legal takes, it seems to me that the law is well beside the point, and an intellectual distraction here. The fundamental issue is behavior: self-discipline, providing a positive role model for the young men who look up to the coach (esp a coach who was a college and NBA star), and instilling values that will help them lead productive, full lives. I shouldn't need to point out that a not-inconsiderable fraction of players come from challenging circumstances in which boundaries are sometimes blurry or nonexistent, and their lives have been chaotic and sometimes dangerous. They are especially in need of a strong role model and rigorous structure in their lives. If they don't get it at this age, they're likely doomed. In fact, I recall distinctly the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on the Fab 5 in which Howard or Webber (IIRC) noted with bitterness that Krzyzewski wouldn't deign to recruit him because of perceived behavioral instability based on his origin.
Is my take Pollyannaish, sanctimonious BS detached from reality? I don't think so. It seems to me to be the bedrock underlying the matter.
On this one you can here Gard say something like “if you’re gonna press”. Gard was probably trying to explain why he called that timeout.
“I’ll remember that …”
“Yeah well remember why I called the timeout too, because you were pressing”
Then Juwan started after like a 4 year old with the “don’t touch me, don’t touch me” stuff.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
In my opinion:
Howard should be fired for his actions, but will not be.
If he’s kept, I do believe this will impact Michigan’s ability to recruit.
The Michigan fans are saying it won’t because “Howard simply had his player’s backs”.
But did he?
Howard continued to press because of his ego.
Howard got upset at Gard based on the time out because of his ego.
Howard blew by Gard and shared words because of his ego.
Howard saw red because Gard touched his arm because of his ego.
Howard hit the assistant coach because of his ego.
None of those actions had anything to do with the best interest of the players.
If anything, Howard continuing to escalate the situation only put his players in more danger.
The kids he’s recruiting might not see it that way, but I bet the parents and the coaches will
Howard should be fired for his actions, but will not be.
If he’s kept, I do believe this will impact Michigan’s ability to recruit.
The Michigan fans are saying it won’t because “Howard simply had his player’s backs”.
But did he?
Howard continued to press because of his ego.
Howard got upset at Gard based on the time out because of his ego.
Howard blew by Gard and shared words because of his ego.
Howard saw red because Gard touched his arm because of his ego.
Howard hit the assistant coach because of his ego.
None of those actions had anything to do with the best interest of the players.
If anything, Howard continuing to escalate the situation only put his players in more danger.
The kids he’s recruiting might not see it that way, but I bet the parents and the coaches will
Exactly. Think NHL playoffs. They've been kicking the crap out of each other for 80 games and when its over you get in line and shake hands.
How about the fact that Howard spoke to Gard first sayin “I’ll remember that bleep”. ? I’m not a lawyer either, but to me the fact that he spoke to Gard first is a counter rob the enoses that he didn’t want to engage with Gard.
Gard did nothing unreasonable, Howard engaged with Gard verbally, Gard attempted to respond relatively reasonably, certainly within the confines of expected behavior in a handshake line.
Then Howard grabbed his shirt, stuck his finger in Gard’s face, (maybe making contact, I’ll have to watch again) while saying don’t touch me.
This is virtually impossible in a handshake line. Hundreds of games are played during the season where coaches come up to each other, put their hands on the others arm or chest, shake hands, and exchange words, sometimes friendly, sometimes not so. It's extremely rare that it breaks out into punches being thrown.
I can't believe people people are seriously making these justifications.
If someone could start swinging every time someone put their hands on them, this would be a really dangerous world. Kofi gets mugged every time he gets the ball down low and he doesn't start swinging (I know it's a different context).
lol "incorrect legal takes" its basic human decency and having basic manners and common sense (which Juwan has none of )
Also don't look at people. That can be intimidating. Try not to talk. You can't be too safe
Hockey is awful. That they let the fighting go on the way they do is awful (I'm assuming they still do this as I've refused to watch it for decades).
Ok. Whatever. Its a great game. Carry on....
i'll jump in...i don't think this is the most likely outcome, but i would not be shocked if some form of the following occurs: Mich/Big10 tell JH they'll go a little easier on him if apologizes and shows some genuine contrition, but JH (being JH) cannot fathom having to admit fault and ends up getting a much more severe punishment than he would otherwise have received. also, i think it's 50/50 at best that he's at Mich 18 months from now. i think after this incident, he's gonna look for an exit ramp back to the NBA.
edit - i also think the longer it takes for the punishments to be announced, the worse it'll be for JH
edit - i also think the longer it takes for the punishments to be announced, the worse it'll be for JH
Lost in this was Gard’s admission that an official told him to call timeout to reset the ten second count.
Why is an official helping out a coach in a game he’s refereeing? Keep in mind for a program that’s had the biggest home court in advantage in the conference for a decade and generally makes more free throws than the other team shoots.
The BIG needs to be looking at that as well.
Why is an official helping out a coach in a game he’s refereeing? Keep in mind for a program that’s had the biggest home court in advantage in the conference for a decade and generally makes more free throws than the other team shoots.
The BIG needs to be looking at that as well.
Further evidence that Gard acted reasonably to the situation.
But see, Juwan won those times. So it was cool then.
skyIdub
"I can't tell you. Secret."
As the video above shows.....the interaction Gard began is absolutely a common, normal approach between coaches in the handshake line.
Anyone trying to defend Howard at this point needs to step back and look at his history and his remarks.
I hope he doesn't get fired now. Keep this scUM garbage pile smoldering.
Anyone trying to defend Howard at this point needs to step back and look at his history and his remarks.
I hope he doesn't get fired now. Keep this scUM garbage pile smoldering.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Most of all, be quick to anger and take offense. I mean, that's been recognized as a virtue for millennia.
I must say I am absolutely shocked by the Kohl Center fans. I thoroughly would expect food things to be thrown in the direction of the Michigan bench during all this. I couldn't see anything on any of the videos. Kudos to the them.
Very much off topic but who's bright idea were those Wisc jerseys. They were awful
Very much off topic but who's bright idea were those Wisc jerseys. They were awful
Bigtex
- DFW
agree. 100% of Big Ten games are on TV with national TV being irrelevant.
Yeah, I think it's a massive overreaction. I agree that maybe a cooling off period makes sense, but if you can't navigate a handshake line without punching somebody, the problem isn't with the handshake line.
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