Michigan State 79, Illinois 54 POSTGAME

#51      
Deleted member 9739
I enjoyed tonight's game more than any I've watched so far this season. I watched the opening and heard that Maverick Morgan was starting in place of the absent Kendrick Nunn and immediately turned the TV to other channels.

Over the next hour and a half I got caught up on some shows I'd missed and turned back just in time to catch the final four minutes or so of the game. At that point there was no hand wringing to do, no worries about how we could get back in the game, etc. Just an opportunity to watch some guys who practice hard every day like Cameron Liss and Greg Roy from Michigan State get a chance to play in a game when they usually don't.

Very enjoyable and a lot less frustrating. :thumb:
 
#52      
Chris Yates
Just got back from the game in East Lansing. What a train wreck. Seriously, several Michigan State fans offered me their sympathy on my way out of the Breslin Center after the game ended. That's where our program is right now. But I expect nothing from my beloved Illini these days, so I'm never disappointed. :(
 
#53      
Deleted member 11241
westms77 said:
+1....let's just hope the fight doesn't go out of them.
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+1.... That's why these guys need 100% support from us fans. Pack the SFC every game and show them we got their backs no matter what, as hard as that may be to do.
 
#54      
Oskee67
Tough game today, but here's what really makes me nervous- next year. We all know this season is all but lost (except for our underclassmen earning valuable experience) given the series of unfortunate events that go back well before this year even started; however, the adversity this team is facing could force the likes of Hill, Nunn, Thorne, and even Abrams to pursue professional options.

Everything about Illinois is "toxic" right now and I would not blame them for leaving, just like I wouldn't blame top Chancellor/Provost/AD candidates for not wanting to come. I'm not even trying to imply these young men are not strong-willed when faced with difficult circumstances or don't have passion for Illinois, but given family considerations, injuries/future risk of injuries, etc. it is the easier, and maybe even the smarter, choice for them to forego their remaining eligibility.

I don't think many have considered the option of all 4 not coming back, but it is certainly a very real likelihood. Selfishly, I hope that these 4 make the difficult decision to give this thing one more shot and help this team climb back to respectability. Next year may not bring us a championship or even an NCAA berth, but it may be the most important the Illini have ever had...
 
#55      
drew306
Chris Yates said:
Just got back from the game in East Lansing. What a train wreck. Seriously, several Michigan State fans offered me their sympathy on my way out of the Breslin Center after the game ended. That's where our program is right now. But I expect nothing from my beloved Illini these days, so I'm never disappointed. :(
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We have won there the last 2 years, perhaps those fans have short memories.

I guess final fours do that...
 
#57      
dfifo
Maverick Morgan was the leading scorer for Illinois tonight.. that should paint the picture for this game.
 
#58      
Berg88
IlliniGman said:
+1.... That's why these guys need 100% support from us fans. Pack the SFC every game and show them we got their backs no matter what, as hard as that may be to do.
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Maybe if they weren't going to charge me $50 to see us get embarrassed by Purdue...
 
#59      
Tevo
The thing that struck me as the biggest difference between MSU and the Illini tonight was speed:
Individual speed on defense.
Speed of passing the ball on offense.
Speed at which players make decisions to shoot, pass or make a move.
Speed with which the players get down the court on offense, and get back on defense.

Some of that is simple physical and mental gifts, but a LOT of it is effort, commitment to the offensive or defensive scheme, and comfort with what your teammates are doing and what you should be doing. Comfort is tough when you're playing as many new guys as Illinois is, but at this point in the season, the comfort level should be getting there. On offense, the Illini stand, hold the ball, point for a screen that never comes, jog around the baseline and curl in to catch a pass and then... stand. There are no quick reversals. No sudden cuts or moves. So slow. So predictable.

After missed shots, MSU beat us down the floor time and time again. Everyone in the building knows that's what they are known for. HOW do they continue to do it, except through sheer effort, and lack of commitment by the defense? Costello -- not really expected to be a speedster -- outran Finke down the court by 4 steps. Mav is even slower. DJ let a guy run right past him, catch a pass and hit a layup.

Coach has to figure out how to get through to these guys and get them comfortable, and how to put them into position to be successful given what they do well and what they don't, but the players have to decide if they are going to put in the effort required. Tonight, both were lacking
 
#60      
Tevo
The OTHER thing that struck me is that MSU just has better players -- pure and simple. Too many of their guys just jump higher, run faster, have better basketball IQ, make better and smarter passes, and shoot better than our guys. Especially with Nunn and Thorne out. Note I didn't mention Black or Abrams, because I don't think those guys would get a lot of playing time on MSU's team, while Nunn and possibly Thorne would be in the rotation.
 
#64      
pjohnso5
drew306 said:
We have won there the last 2 years, perhaps those fans have short memories.

I guess final fours do that...
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The sad part is, there is a school up north to compare U of I to when it comes to sports. That is Northwestern.

They are light years ahead of us in both football and bball. Despite the fact that they have far less money pumped into their programs, do not draw 1/2 the amount of home fans for either sport, is a school that is more academically challenging in most areas, and have harder entrance requirements for athletes.

However, they have very good coaches in both football and basketball. Both teams have far surpassed the Illini in recent years and have far brighter near-term futures. It is a sad state that our 2 programs are in. I'm tired of being the butt end of jokes from other Big Ten fans. Until U of I places an importance on their major sports programs, this crap will continue for a while. It's pathetic.
 
#65      
BooKoo
Right now I'm going to b a Truth Teller. This may hurt some people but sometimes the truth hurts. In my lifetime (I'm 30) Illini football and b ball will not win a championship or even make the final four (besides 89 and 05) I'm sorry to say this bc I feel deep down that the fighting Illini should have the best teams in Illinois. We usually have so much talent for b ball but they don't want to stay in state. Which I can't blame them if they r 5-4 star recruits that want to make the tourney to win a championship. Unless we get an AD that knows wtf he/she is doing, sorry to say this program is not going in the right direction��
 
#67      
Cymoin
Can someone tell me how many players on the current roster (injured and healthy) were actively pursued and offered schollys by programs which are regular guests in the only post-season tourney that matters?

I don't recall our beating out major programs for JCL, KN or MH. I recall Kentucky being interested in MT but we are now seeing how underwhelming their team is this year.

It seems that today's really good high school players could care less who they play for...they just want to go where there is a path to the NBA...that road does not run through Champaign.
 
#68      
Jreed322
Oskee67 said:
Tough game today, but here's what really makes me nervous- next year. We all know this season is all but lost (except for our underclassmen earning valuable experience) given the series of unfortunate events that go back well before this year even started; however, the adversity this team is facing could force the likes of Hill, Nunn, Thorne, and even Abrams to pursue professional options.

Everything about Illinois is "toxic" right now and I would not blame them for leaving, just like I wouldn't blame top Chancellor/Provost/AD candidates for not wanting to come. I'm not even trying to imply these young men are not strong-willed when faced with difficult circumstances or don't have passion for Illinois, but given family considerations, injuries/future risk of injuries, etc. it is the easier, and maybe even the smarter, choice for them to forego their remaining eligibility.

I don't think many have considered the option of all 4 not coming back, but it is certainly a very real likelihood. Selfishly, I hope that these 4 make the difficult decision to give this thing one more shot and help this team climb back to respectability. Next year may not bring us a championship or even an NCAA berth, but it may be the most important the Illini have ever had...
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Let's not let a loss to the #5 team on the road without four starters lead us to grand statements that aren't true. There's zero chance any of the guys you mentioned leave early unless Thorne comes back this year and thus graduates.

Tevo said:
The OTHER thing that struck me is that MSU just has better players -- pure and simple. Too many of their guys just jump higher, run faster, have better basketball IQ, make better and smarter passes, and shoot better than our guys. Especially with Nunn and Thorne out. Note I didn't mention Black or Abrams, because I don't think those guys would get a lot of playing time on MSU's team, while Nunn and possibly Thorne would be in the rotation.
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Nunn and black would most certainly get PT. Abrams would probably be a backup pg.

pjohnso5 said:
The sad part is, there is a school up north to compare U of I to when it comes to sports. That is Northwestern.

They are light years ahead of us in both football and bball. Despite the fact that they have far less money pumped into their programs, do not draw 1/2 the amount of home fans for either sport, is a school that is more academically challenging in most areas, and have harder entrance requirements for athletes.

However, they have very good coaches in both football and basketball. Both teams have far surpassed the Illini in recent years and have far brighter near-term futures. It is a sad state that our 2 programs are in. I'm tired of being the butt end of jokes from other Big Ten fans. Until U of I places an importance on their major sports programs, this crap will continue for a while. It's pathetic.
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Can someone explain to me why I've now heard that NW, Rutgers and penn state are in much better places than Illinois? I mean that's just lunacy to me. It's like people think this is the full roster that we have recruited and are destined to have going forward. I get the frustration but perspective is needed here at some point by people instead of grand hyperbole.
 
#69      
IntenselyOrange
Jreed322 said:
Let's not let a loss to the #5 team on the road without four starters lead us to grand statements that aren't true. There's zero chance any of the guys you mentioned leave early unless Thorne comes back this year and thus graduates.



Nunn and black would most certainly get PT. Abrams would probably be a backup pg.



Can someone explain to me why I've now heard that NW, Rutgers and penn state are in much better places than Illinois? I mean that's just lunacy to me. It's like people think this is the full roster that we have recruited and are destined to have going forward. I get the frustration but perspective is needed here at some point by people instead of grand hyperbole.
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Yeah, those guys aren't leaving except Thorne. And Nunn would get time on just about any team in the country I think.

As to the last paragraph, I'm not sure about Rutgers and Penn State, but I think NW is in good shape. Unless their coach leaves for a better job, I think that they are going to be serious competition for the second level talent out of Chicago. The top guys will continue to go to Duke, Kentucky, etc., but we need the next tier like Nunn because not enough is being produced by the rest of the state. If we see those guys start to choose NW, which is starting to look very likely base on the on court results, we could be in for some serious long-term trouble.
 
#70      
Jreed322
IntenselyOrange said:
Yeah, those guys aren't leaving except Thorne. And Nunn would get time on just about any team in the country I think.

As to the last paragraph, I'm not sure about Rutgers and Penn State, but I think NW is in good shape. Unless their coach leaves for a better job, I think that they are going to be serious competition for the second level talent out of Chicago. The top guys will continue to go to Duke, Kentucky, etc., but we need the next tier like Nunn because not enough is being produced by the rest of the state. If we see those guys start to choose NW, which is starting to look very likely base on the on court results, we could be in for some serious long-term trouble.
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I'm not necessarily debating whether or not NW is improving or in better shape than they were but there's been zero evidence that guys like nunn would consistently choose NW or that it's likely considering on court results. NW hasn't played anyone yet and still has never made the ncaas. I mean I get Illinois fans being frustrated and all that but the over-reactions and all that are getting a bit out of hand to me.
 
#71      
Ransom Stoddard
Jreed322 said:
I'm not necessarily debating whether or not NW is improving or in better shape than they were but there's been zero evidence that guys like nunn would consistently choose NW or that it's likely considering on court results. NW hasn't played anyone yet and still has never made the ncaas. I mean I get Illinois fans being frustrated and all that but the over-reactions and all that are getting a bit out of hand to me.
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A light went on for me last night as I was watching MSU extend a 3 point load to somewhere around 25 in the first half. Other than MH, we're essentially playing subs, we all know that. The issue is, every other team has to play their subs at some point as well, and even when it's our second string going up against the other teams second string, we're getting owned, especially on the defensive end of the court. The short explanation is that while JG might be bringing in first line guys that can compete in the B1G, the second line guys can't. It's going to take several more years of exceptional recruiting to correct that.

On the brighter note, I appreciated the hustle I saw in the first half. If shots had dropped it may have been a closer game (or Izzo may have left his top guys in longer). Shooting 29% for FG and 13% from 3 isn't going to keep it close against the #5 team in the country, especially with our defensive limitations.
 
#72      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Oskee67 said:
I don't think many have considered the option of all 4 not coming back, but it is certainly a very real likelihood.
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No one is considering it because it's very unlikely. Abrams isn't going to go through 2 tough years of rehabbing major injuries and then decide to leave. He's probably not going to be anywhere near the player he used to be, but he's going to play again next season. I expect Thorne to play again this year, so yes, he's unlikely to be around next season.

pjohnso5 said:
The sad part is, there is a school up north to compare U of I to when it comes to sports. That is Northwestern.

They are light years ahead of us in both football and bball.
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Nope. Collins has them going in a good direction but not "light years". They are going to be NIT at best this season. I do expect they'll finally break through and finally make the NCAAs in the next few seasons, though. But if we have the right coach in place, it's not tough to push ahead of them again.

Ransom Stoddard said:
A light went on for me last night as I was watching MSU extend a 3 point load to somewhere around 25 in the first half. Other than MH, we're essentially playing subs, we all know that. The issue is, every other team has to play their subs at some point as well, and even when it's our second string going up against the other teams second string, we're getting owned, especially on the defensive end of the court. The short explanation is that while JG might be bringing in first line guys that can compete in the B1G, the second line guys can't. It's going to take several more years of exceptional recruiting to correct that.
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Yeah, and that's also why having Nunn out was really huge. We can debate the impact of not having Thorne, Black and Abrams. They are starters, but not the stars of the team. However, with them out and now you start taking those "stars" like Nunn away, the impact is even bigger. Up until now we've at least had Hill and Nunn to rely on. With Nunn out, teams can focus on Hill since we have to play some other guys that are not going to be major threats to score.
 
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#73      
TCTORNADO
25 pt. loss margin ties the largest loss number in 117 game MSU series. Other bad one was January 30, 2000.
 
#74      
491illinois
No one wins many games shooting 29% overall and 13% shooting 3s.

We really looked lost out there on both ends of the court.

MSU is obviously a massively quicker team on the offensive end, but is thier defense that good?
 
#75      
Jreed322
Ransom Stoddard said:
A light went on for me last night as I was watching MSU extend a 3 point load to somewhere around 25 in the first half. Other than MH, we're essentially playing subs, we all know that. The issue is, every other team has to play their subs at some point as well, and even when it's our second string going up against the other teams second string, we're getting owned, especially on the defensive end of the court. The short explanation is that while JG might be bringing in first line guys that can compete in the B1G, the second line guys can't. It's going to take several more years of exceptional recruiting to correct that.

On the brighter note, I appreciated the hustle I saw in the first half. If shots had dropped it may have been a closer game (or Izzo may have left his top guys in longer). Shooting 29% for FG and 13% from 3 isn't going to keep it close against the #5 team in the country, especially with our defensive limitations.
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I'm not even sure I agree about our subs because it's been tough to evaluate. Our subs haven't played subs minutes. Instead they're playing starters minutes. The other aspect of that is that most of our subs are freshman right now and two of them have shown more than just flashes of how good they can be in JCL and finke. As you said our depth has been killed and thus our backups are having to log way more minutes than they were supposed to. Combine that with the inevitable ups and downs that freshman naturally go through and this is what happens in some games.
 
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