Brad got fat. He thought he could just sit back this year and next and the next. He’s got a big contract and getting older. His job is safe for 2-3 years minimum and he knows it. Go another 3 years and try to convince Whitman to let his son have a chance.
Michigan State 79, Illinois 65 Postgame
- Status
Some stats on Ben's 3-point shooting in B1G games:
In games where he makes 2 of his first 3, he has shot 48% (16 of 33). In all other games, he has shot 27% (16 of 60).
In the five games where he missed his first 3 threes, he subsequently shot 24% (4 of 17) from 3 in those games.
In games where he has missed three in a row, he has made the next shot 31% of the time (4 of 13). But when he has missed that fourth one, his fifth try hasn't been very successful. He has made that one only once in seven tries (14%)
Oh, he has made three in a row once. His longest streak of misses was the 0 of 7 at Nebraska.
In games where he makes 2 of his first 3, he has shot 48% (16 of 33). In all other games, he has shot 27% (16 of 60).
In the five games where he missed his first 3 threes, he subsequently shot 24% (4 of 17) from 3 in those games.
In games where he has missed three in a row, he has made the next shot 31% of the time (4 of 13). But when he has missed that fourth one, his fifth try hasn't been very successful. He has made that one only once in seven tries (14%)
Oh, he has made three in a row once. His longest streak of misses was the 0 of 7 at Nebraska.
Last edited:
If Brad were to somehow hand the job of to Tyler, me,,my 50+ years of unwavering fan support and my money would finally have reached the breaking point
Brad is not going to be allowed to hand off to Tyler. We don't have Ron Guenther in charge anymore.
- Longish post that's not directed at you New Creation -
I don't understand where this is coming from though. Now we're saying he has to make a deep run every year or else?
Look, I think I have pretty high expectations for our program. In 2023 when people were calling the season a success just because we made the tournament or saying that it doesn't matter what happens in March because it's a crapshoot, I was adamant that a 9 seed and first round exit does not qualify for a successful season at Illinois. Our expectations should be higher than that. March matters. It's when good programs shine brightest.
But, we also aren't going to be a second weekend or bust team every single year. Especially this year. This team hasn't lived up to expectations but even if they were tracking for a 3 or 4 seed, IMO, the youth and lack of continuity were always going to make getting to the second weekend an uphill battle.
In 2003, we had a Hall of Fame coach and 6 future NBA players - four whose numbers now hang in the rafters. And we got bounced in the 2nd round. That was the first game I ever went to so I remember it well. But I don't know what the attitude of the fanbase was back then? Were people putting Self on the hot seat because he wasted all that talent?
Here is what I think is a fair expectation of an Illinois coach:
- Make the tournament at least 9 out of every 10 years
- Advance to the second weekend 3 or 4 times out of every 10 years
- Advance to the Final Four 1 time every 10 years
We are more or less on track to hit those marks since 2021.
Overall, I agree that changes should be made but we are so far from ultimatum time, IMO.
Given how much NIL money I understand Brad committed to him, I'm not neutral. This was awful roster management. Compare Ben to, for example, the guys Michigan brought in for similar money and you've got to question the player evaluation of our staff, particularly since the questions about whether Ben would be able to play at this level should have been clear from his game by game stats last year.
I’ve been saying this for a while. Just a lot of head scratching games. Very frustrating.
I’m sure I’m not the first one to point this out but this is a false equivalence. Just because neither one was found guilty in a court of law, doesn’t mean both allegations were found to not be true.
I’m not saying Coach Beard doesn’t deserve a second chance, but I do think we can do better if we end up looking for a new coach anytime soon.
The Sprouting Divot
Invisible and Bulletproof
- Miracle Mile
I don't mean to speak for New Creation, but I think a simple way to communicate the general point (and one that I agree with) is that the fanbase will be a lot more forgiving of the coach after a bad season when the coach appears to have been doing everything he can but the players seemed to be the problem.
But after a bad season where the players appear to be doing everything they can and the coaching seemed to be the problem, (i.e., this season, absent some postseason magic) then there's a lot less patience and willingness to put up with the bull!!!!.
Set your goals higher than conference wins and conference championships.
Interesting way of framing it. I can appreciate it even if I don't think I agree.
To me, it still sounds like we're talking about a coach who has zero margin for error. Which, (IMO) isn't and shouldn't be the case.
JMO though. I understand others feel differently. Ultimately, time will tell. He'll be our coach next year and he'll either have us performing at the high level we've come to expect from his teams or he won't and back to back bad years will really change the temperature of his seat.
Brad is running into the issue of always wanting more. And that's what happens when you have success. I don't think there is some locker room issue. We have a really young team that can't shoot. And a coach that can't seem to get the message across.
The Sprouting Divot
Invisible and Bulletproof
- Miracle Mile
I don't agree that there's no margin for error.
On the contrary, I think he has quite a long runway, and has nevertheless managed to use most of it up, at least with respect to any grace he'll get for this season.
Trading TA and Chester for his kid and some other kid. Criminal underuse of DGL. Rampant overuse of Ben. Early season underuse of Morez. Whatever the !!!! is going on with Tre. Poor/non-use of timeouts. JV-level inbounds "plays." Failing to make adjustments (pick your favorite examples). Rude treatment of reporters and other tonedeafness in postgame interviews. Etc., etc.
On the contrary, I think he has quite a long runway, and has nevertheless managed to use most of it up, at least with respect to any grace he'll get for this season.
Trading TA and Chester for his kid and some other kid. Criminal underuse of DGL. Rampant overuse of Ben. Early season underuse of Morez. Whatever the !!!! is going on with Tre. Poor/non-use of timeouts. JV-level inbounds "plays." Failing to make adjustments (pick your favorite examples). Rude treatment of reporters and other tonedeafness in postgame interviews. Etc., etc.
So far our two best players were recruited by Geoff (KJ) and Orlando (Tomi). The guy with the most promise for next year (Morez) was recruited by an AC that’s no longer here. Not sure who led for Will. Meanwhile, who did Tyler/Hamer focus on? You can only pat yourself on the back for getting Domask for so long. It’s no surprise that our two more seasoned ACs have nabbed better gets with a better eval.
This is making me now question our hire at GM, who’s been out of college for all of 4 or 5 years and was presumably buddies with Tyler while previously here. Being friends with the coach’s son is no way to build a program. I think that Elite Eight run sparked far too much hubris in Brad (and Tyler).
Bruce is 10 times the in game coach that Brad is but he couldn’t bring in players. Brad can bring in players but can’t do anything with them. I’d say all told, there is not much that you can say to me to prove that Brad is a better “coach”. Better recruiter, sure.
One more thing: what’s frustrating about Brad is that, despite resurrecting Illinois basketball at a program-level, he still seems to have some major blind spots that aren’t present at other perennial contenders. Take MSU: Izzo has famously eschewed big hits in the portal for the sake of continuity and development. Painter has done the same. Brad seems to have gone the other direction and seemingly doesn’t care if basically the whole team flips. Retention is not a top priority. And even for those guys we do retain, they clearly don’t seem valued enough to not take a redshirt and sit out a season (Sencire, Ty).
We’re not Duke. We’re not Kansas. We can’t afford to buy any player we want. We shouldn’t avoid the portal — last season doesn’t happen without our best portal add to-date — but we need a guy at the helm that can ensure retention of quality players, development of those players, and then fill in gaps with a couple portal adds. That’s sustainability. That gives you year 3 and 4 program guys that can be a solid foundation (Tre Holloman, Jaden Akins, etc). Starting from scratch every 1-2 years is inevitably going to lead to wild swings in performance.
We’re not Duke. We’re not Kansas. We can’t afford to buy any player we want. We shouldn’t avoid the portal — last season doesn’t happen without our best portal add to-date — but we need a guy at the helm that can ensure retention of quality players, development of those players, and then fill in gaps with a couple portal adds. That’s sustainability. That gives you year 3 and 4 program guys that can be a solid foundation (Tre Holloman, Jaden Akins, etc). Starting from scratch every 1-2 years is inevitably going to lead to wild swings in performance.
Last edited:
Weber was an average in-game coach at best. Deron bailed us out of the ridiculous strategy he saddled us with for a long time when he would have our point guard dribble and do nothing with the ball until it was too late to create anything when we had a lead within 8 minutes of the end of any game. As soon as Deron left, this foolishness by Weber was exposed badly. Deron, Dee, Luther, Roger, and James would have probably made Brad look like a good in game coach too.
What got me in the game was MSU high ball screen that worked wonderfully for them. KB just couldn't get over the screener and pop a two point basket. How many teams have done that against us. Their guards had wide open free throw line shots. If you watch the IU vs MSU game IU deployed a zone against MSU in the second half and it totally disrupted their flow on offense. Secondly, as has been discussed about not going down hill and getting fouled. I know Brad touched on it, but that also is KJ job to see it and call it out as the PG.. We had them in foul trouble., instead we jacked up threes. Kohler will not have another game like he did on Saturday. One last thing, You could tell Tomi was not right Saturday night. Go ILLINI beat Wisc.
I feel differently about this. It just doesn't pay in the modern college basketball game to depend on being able to develop frosh players anymore. Yes, your roster should have some developing guys on it, but it doesn't pay to spend the predominance of your NIL money on incoming high school guys no matter how highly rated they are. As soon as they become good enough to help you contend, they can opt to transfer or they can demand so much NIL money that you can't afford to keep them. It makes a lot more sense to bring in experienced guys to fill out your roster and keep your team older rather than younger.
I wouldn’t be so sure of that.
I understand that he does care about his players. I understand that he is hard to play for. I understand that the portal is the enemy of continuity. But Brad has to start proving he can retain people.
Doesn't matter if they come from high school, portal, or Europe. You just need guys to stick around for 2-3 years. Can't rebuild every single year.
Look at the top of the B1G right now.
Michigan: 27% minutes returning
MSU: 47%
Purdue: 54%
Wisconsin: 51%
Maryland: 49%
UCLA: 61%
Illinois: 3%
100%. I think people are rightly freaking out because this team was going well, moving up the rankings with good metrics, but looks significantly worse the last month or so. Even worse is play when they're up. We all accept the injuries and sickness, and the new roster taking time to gel, but the effort or poise is a growing perception, real or imagined. On top of that we've got (hopefully just speculation of) discontent with roles at this point in the season, and there is real fear that the season could tank despite several individuals who look like legit future NBA pros. IMHO that qualifies as a disaster. The regression of 3 pt shooting is puzzling too --not sure what to make of that.
The BTT format is going to be difficult on teams outside the top 4, and downright cruel for teams having to play 5 in 5. Really hoping this isn't the season that could have been. Someone's got to emerge with more leadership.
Watching this again, with emotions a little more in check and less booze, and there’s a lot of bad luck in this sequence. The reason to shoot even with the mismatch is that you have a good chance at getting the offensive rebound, but then Ivisic blocked the putback by Riley. We’re the best rebounding team in the country so it’s hard to criticize that aspect but we should have relied on that a bit less with Ivisic being hurt.
It seems that Underwood is intentionally trying to let them play through these issues since they’re a young team, and by default they need the game simplified as much as possible. The game slows down when you have a veteran team and you can run more sets well but we don’t have that luxury. He seems to be relying on their individual IQ to make plays, which is probably the right move given where we’re at in the season. The reality is that there isn’t much that they can change this season. That being said, I don’t get how he doesn’t have a decent SLOB or BLOB which is infuriating.
I'm still not convinced with all the roster complaints. While some of these points certainly have merit, the fact remains that this team has the pieces that most coaches envy. The reality is that they haven't been given a system to utilize their talents. They haven't been given an offense to execute, they haven't been given a defensive plan they could buy into. Do you think the shooters came here to so that they could shoot lots of contested 3s with the shot clock running out? Looking at our roster I only see 1 guy that has come up well short of expectations. The rest are simply misused pieces. I haven't given up on Brad, but change is needed. Question is will Brad be willing to demote family or will he have to go in order for the change to happen.
Yep, and it wasn’t long ago.(according to this board and various other pundits) (see also Sleeper Media…who is fun but wrong 85% of the time…lol) Izzo was out of touch and old…and didn’t know how to operate in the portal era…etc…etc
- Status