Michigan State 81, Illinois 72 Postgame

Status
Not open for further replies.
#251      
This one stung no doubt, but actually feel better about this one than some of our other losses and too close, play-down-to-the competition wins. In those situations we tend to lack focus and intensity. Last night we
1.Only had 11 turnovers (granted 8 were in the first half but shows we at least refocused at half. 11 is probably below our season average)

2. Outrebounded MSU despite their really physical play, including grabbing more offensive rebounds.

3. Free throws, yes we missed 15 but 12 of those were from Ayo/Kofi, and 3 of Ayo’s 4 were when he was still dazed. MSU clearly got in Kofi’s head, which he has to be better at controlling. But, a lot of his misses looked good. They were just a little short/long or rimmed out. I feel like when he’s not focused there’s a lot of bad misses off the side of the rim and there were very few of those last night. The rest of the team was 12-15.

All 3 cut against us being flat or unfocused and may explain why Brad wasn’t overly upset. As Brad and many others have said, it just wasn’t our night.

Also, Curbello seemed to get his mojo back last night and Trent remained on a heater. If those guys continue to play at that level and we get just average games from Ayo and Kofi we will be a really tough out.
3 things I didn’t like:
1. The hesitancy in shooting open 3’s. DaMonte is the primary culprit here but there were others too. As well as we shoot the 3 I feel like we should be taking more, especially when we are open.

2. Not the reason we lost, but the refs had a few missed calls at really inopportune times that killed several of our rallies. Ayo gets raked across the arm, jump ball. Giorgi wrangles a tie up with Hauser, foul. Ball pops into the air and Ayo jumps to deflect it, foul on Ayo. Trent brushes Watts well after the shot is gone and Watts flops, foul on Trent. And the missed out of bounds call off the MSU player.

3. Probably most egregious was not calling the flagrant on Kofi in the first half. That knock on the head was well after the whistle and nothing more than a cheap shot. Our guys have been called for a lot less. IMO, that no call led directly to the flagrant 2 on Ayo.
I don’t mind physical play but it felt like the old Bulls Piston series out there. Missed calls happen, but refs did a really poor job of controlling the cheap shots. We are lucky Ayo or anyone else didn’t get hurt. No place for any of that and I definitely lost some respect for Izzo as, in my opinion, all of that was by design.

Finally, we probably could have overcome all of it if MSU had shot closer to their season average. We’ve played better defense, but they hit an awful lot of tough, contested floaters/fall aways/etc with very timely three point shooting. Does anyone know if that “luck” metric takes into account shooting percentage in excess of expectation based on shots taken? If so I can see why we are ranked near the bottom. With the exception of Wisconsin, it always feels like teams hit more than their fair share of tough shots against us.

Apologies for the long post, I just had several observations I wanted to share that don’t have me as discouraged as the Maryland or Mizzou losses or even the Nebraska and Northwestern wins. May cost us a seed line but I actually don’t think this loss is the worst thing that could happen to them.

If we play this way against Nebraska way more layups and free throws will go down and we win by 30. Trick is to come out as focused and with as much energy as we did last night.
Good points...the only thing I would say is beating Nebraska handily should be a given...we really haven't beaten a top team all year. Iowa playing without CJ Frederick (key player for Iowa) was our best win. We have won some good games, but when we move up against better teams we have lost. We have opportunities against Michigan and Ohio St in the next week, then the Big 10 Tourney. Losing last night to a team that was desperate on their home floor with a poor performance and bad officiating not the end of the world. We will know what we are in the next 10 days.
 
#252      
Winged Warrior
This one stung no doubt, but actually feel better about this one than some of our other losses and too close, play-down-to-the competition wins. In those situations we tend to lack focus and intensity. Last night we
1.Only had 11 turnovers (granted 8 were in the first half but shows we at least refocused at half. 11 is probably below our season average)

2. Outrebounded MSU despite their really physical play, including grabbing more offensive rebounds.

3. Free throws, yes we missed 15 but 12 of those were from Ayo/Kofi, and 3 of Ayo’s 4 were when he was still dazed. MSU clearly got in Kofi’s head, which he has to be better at controlling. But, a lot of his misses looked good. They were just a little short/long or rimmed out. I feel like when he’s not focused there’s a lot of bad misses off the side of the rim and there were very few of those last night. The rest of the team was 12-15.

All 3 cut against us being flat or unfocused and may explain why Brad wasn’t overly upset. As Brad and many others have said, it just wasn’t our night.

Also, Curbello seemed to get his mojo back last night and Trent remained on a heater. If those guys continue to play at that level and we get just average games from Ayo and Kofi we will be a really tough out.
3 things I didn’t like:
1. The hesitancy in shooting open 3’s. DaMonte is the primary culprit here but there were others too. As well as we shoot the 3 I feel like we should be taking more, especially when we are open.

2. Not the reason we lost, but the refs had a few missed calls at really inopportune times that killed several of our rallies. Ayo gets raked across the arm, jump ball. Giorgi wrangles a tie up with Hauser, foul. Ball pops into the air and Ayo jumps to deflect it, foul on Ayo. Trent brushes Watts well after the shot is gone and Watts flops, foul on Trent. And the missed out of bounds call off the MSU player.

3. Probably most egregious was not calling the flagrant on Kofi in the first half. That knock on the head was well after the whistle and nothing more than a cheap shot. Our guys have been called for a lot less. IMO, that no call led directly to the flagrant 2 on Ayo.
I don’t mind physical play but it felt like the old Bulls Piston series out there. Missed calls happen, but refs did a really poor job of controlling the cheap shots. We are lucky Ayo or anyone else didn’t get hurt. No place for any of that and I definitely lost some respect for Izzo as, in my opinion, all of that was by design.

Finally, we probably could have overcome all of it if MSU had shot closer to their season average. We’ve played better defense, but they hit an awful lot of tough, contested floaters/fall aways/etc with very timely three point shooting. Does anyone know if that “luck” metric takes into account shooting percentage in excess of expectation based on shots taken? If so I can see why we are ranked near the bottom. With the exception of Wisconsin, it always feels like teams hit more than their fair share of tough shots against us.

Apologies for the long post, I just had several observations I wanted to share that don’t have me as discouraged as the Maryland or Mizzou losses or even the Nebraska and Northwestern wins. May cost us a seed line but I actually don’t think this loss is the worst thing that could happen to them.

If we play this way against Nebraska way more layups and free throws will go down and we win by 30. Trick is to come out as focused and with as much energy as we did last night.

Excellent! Reasonable, logic!

Now quick....somebody give us a ridiculous hot take before we all succumb to this sensible crap!! /s
 
#253      
After a solid 12 hours of cool down time and having watched MSU's last 2 games, Sparty is pretty good and this loss won't look "that bad" on March 7th. We have struggled in physical clunky games this year, but we have shown the ability to win them (IU comes to mind).

This is a good film to watch today for coachable moments:
Kofi passing out of double and triple teams. The way the man can keep his pivot foot is amazing, now look up and find a teammate on the perimeter.
DMFW not being locked in on D & passing up some really good looks.
Showing Belo how good he is when playing under control and taking what the defense gives him (also don't hesitate to shoot).
Highlighting our lack of hustle to box out and giving up second and third chances OR our over aggression going for blocks and getting out of rebounding position.

Everything bad from last night is fixable. Yes, we struggle against long, physical, athletic teams, but who doesn't? Thursday, Senior/Ayo Day, will hopefully be a great palate cleanser.
I would say that Curbelo does indeed need to hesitate to shoot. OK if he is in the paint or on a drive. Otherwise, if I am the coach, Curbelo starts launching he is out of the game. Guy has no perimeter shot.
 
#254      
I can't believe all the "MSU is a good team" takes. When exactly did they become a good team? They weren't good a month ago when they put up just 37 on Rutgers. And they weren't good 10 days before they trounced us, when they got beat by 30 at home to Iowa. The Big 10 is on track to send a record number of teams to the tournament, and MSU probably isn't one of them. Their record before last night reads as mediocre at best, so maybe everything clicked just in time to beat us. Or maybe we played poorly and beat ourselves. I guess we will know after we see what MSU does going forward, but I think the explanation that the dormant giant was awakened just in time to beat us is the less likely possibility.
They practiced once coming off a two week COVID break before that Rutgers game, so that's a poor example. They have played better of late and have settled on a lineup that doesn't revolve around Hauser which seems to be helping. With the slate of games in front of them we will find out how good they are pretty quickly.
 
#256      
Paducah, Ky
Glad I didn't post last night...maybe I would have got a flagrant 2 from Dan , but after a sleepless night I will share my thoughts with my illini brethren...

Reasons we lost.................

1. Refs were as bad as I can remember, worse than the loosier game and here is what I saw last nite...
The foul called on Coleman on the off end where he rebounded over a standing still Langford and hit the put back..No contact at all and Langford just stood there and Coleman played aggressive...2 points lost there.
The non call on a obvious flagrant one foul with hitting Kofi on the top of the head...If the tables had been turned Kofi might have been assessed a flag 2 and ejected.
The worst call was the Henry leg out of bounds call IN FRONT of the ref....that should be a rejection of ref creds for the rest of the season...
The same ref called msu ball when Langford clearly dribbled it out of bounds on the side near half court....
Larry S. is on the same level with me as DJ bald head ref as far as incompetent skills.. so many other non calls and please don't post about the number of fouls called on each team..Brad mentioned that msu fouls more than any other team in the country and the refs only call 50 % of the fouls...

2...worst Illini offensive play this year....12-30 in layups, per Brad...Ayo missed 2 point blank layups in the first half...how often does that happen...

3. one of our worst defensive played games this season....msu played in our grills and we played 2-3 feet off them...msu played a 1-2-2 off with all players out of the paint, did their pick and rolls and usually ended up with henry, Langford , etc hitting a 8-10 floater...

I have more thoughts but pain meds are kicking in so I'll part with this....

tenor (24).gif
 
#257      
They practiced once coming off a two week COVID break before that Rutgers game, so that's a poor example. They have played better of late and have settled on a lineup that doesn't revolve around Hauser which seems to be helping. With the slate of games in front of them we will find out how good they are pretty quickly.
True Rutgers is not the best example, but I'm looking at their full schedule and still not seeing any sign of a good team in there. Before beating us they had 5 conference wins, all against teams with losing conference records. 2 of them were against Nebraska. The Big 10 teams they beat have a combined conference record of 21-41 (22-54 if you count Nebraska twice). I guess what I'm saying is, prior to beating us MSU showed exactly zero evidence of being able to stick with a top team. I suppose the relatively close 6-pt loss to Iowa on Feb 2 could be something, but I don’t know how to square that with their 30-pt loss to the same team on Feb 13.
 
#258      
We’re clearly not getting the best out of the team on a consistent basis- not just the losses but the close calls against weak teams, losing at home to teams we have no business losing to- just when you thought maybe something clicked, this happens

The fact that we are capable of losing to just about anybody and can’t string many good games together does not bode well at all for the Tournament
We had just won 7 straight. Can't win em all. Sometimes you just gotta tip your hat to the other team. And missed layups & FT's aren't BU's fault. Like most teams not Baylor or Gonzaga, we have weaknesses that pop up from time to time. These kids aren't robots that we just wind up and expect them to play perfect every time out.
 
#259      
I would say that Curbelo does indeed need to hesitate to shoot. OK if he is in the paint or on a drive. Otherwise, if I am the coach, Curbelo starts launching he is out of the game. Guy has no perimeter shot.
Does Belo need to launch five 3's per game? Of course not. We need him to avoid the Jaylon Tate treatment where it's 5 on 4 out there. Thankfully he can break almost anyone down with the dribble, but less bodies in the paint around Kofi is a plus.
 
#260      
We shoot 80% from the FT line and it's a tie game. I don't think it's actually anymore complicated than that. Problem is it looks like a pretty proven strategy against us to just play very physical and put us on the line.
Well actually Illini would have had to shoot 82% to have a tied game, but I get your point. But is it reasonable to expect the team to shoot 80% from the FT line? Only 5 teams (8 if you round up) are shooting 80% or better on the season. The Illini have managed to shoot 80% or better in 3 games this year, which is actually once more than their opponents have. Are the Illini a good free throw shooting team? No. Did free throw shooting hurt the team last night? Hell yes. But there were other problems that went beyond that. Even if the Illini had shot a national average 71% (which is above their 68.3% in the season), they would have lost by 4. Illini have to be better from the line no doubt, but they made 6 more free throws than MSU and still lost by 9. This loss wasn’t simply because of bad FT shooting.
 
#261      
This one stung no doubt, but actually feel better about this one than some of our other losses and too close, play-down-to-the competition wins. In those situations we tend to lack focus and intensity. Last night we
1.Only had 11 turnovers (granted 8 were in the first half but shows we at least refocused at half. 11 is probably below our season average)

2. Outrebounded MSU despite their really physical play, including grabbing more offensive rebounds.

3. Free throws, yes we missed 15 but 12 of those were from Ayo/Kofi, and 3 of Ayo’s 4 were when he was still dazed. MSU clearly got in Kofi’s head, which he has to be better at controlling. But, a lot of his misses looked good. They were just a little short/long or rimmed out. I feel like when he’s not focused there’s a lot of bad misses off the side of the rim and there were very few of those last night. The rest of the team was 12-15.

All 3 cut against us being flat or unfocused and may explain why Brad wasn’t overly upset. As Brad and many others have said, it just wasn’t our night.

Also, Curbello seemed to get his mojo back last night and Trent remained on a heater. If those guys continue to play at that level and we get just average games from Ayo and Kofi we will be a really tough out.
3 things I didn’t like:
1. The hesitancy in shooting open 3’s. DaMonte is the primary culprit here but there were others too. As well as we shoot the 3 I feel like we should be taking more, especially when we are open.

2. Not the reason we lost, but the refs had a few missed calls at really inopportune times that killed several of our rallies. Ayo gets raked across the arm, jump ball. Giorgi wrangles a tie up with Hauser, foul. Ball pops into the air and Ayo jumps to deflect it, foul on Ayo. Trent brushes Watts well after the shot is gone and Watts flops, foul on Trent. And the missed out of bounds call off the MSU player.

3. Probably most egregious was not calling the flagrant on Kofi in the first half. That knock on the head was well after the whistle and nothing more than a cheap shot. Our guys have been called for a lot less. IMO, that no call led directly to the flagrant 2 on Ayo.
I don’t mind physical play but it felt like the old Bulls Piston series out there. Missed calls happen, but refs did a really poor job of controlling the cheap shots. We are lucky Ayo or anyone else didn’t get hurt. No place for any of that and I definitely lost some respect for Izzo as, in my opinion, all of that was by design.

Finally, we probably could have overcome all of it if MSU had shot closer to their season average. We’ve played better defense, but they hit an awful lot of tough, contested floaters/fall aways/etc with very timely three point shooting. Does anyone know if that “luck” metric takes into account shooting percentage in excess of expectation based on shots taken? If so I can see why we are ranked near the bottom. With the exception of Wisconsin, it always feels like teams hit more than their fair share of tough shots against us.

Apologies for the long post, I just had several observations I wanted to share that don’t have me as discouraged as the Maryland or Mizzou losses or even the Nebraska and Northwestern wins. May cost us a seed line but I actually don’t think this loss is the worst thing that could happen to them.

If we play this way against Nebraska way more layups and free throws will go down and we win by 30. Trick is to come out as focused and with as much energy as we did last night.
I'm 100 on this. I lost respect for Izzo for being complicit with some of the previous players. However, he must have enjoyed the local 80's/early 90's Pistons with some of those cheap shots. We deserved to lose, but I wish Brad would have called that crap out, or at least got T'd up during the game. I don't care if we lose, but that was some bologna there. Could have seriously injured Ayo.
 
#262      
Denver, CO
We make free throws we win the game. When Kofi missed his first set of free throws I knew it was over. Teams are going to play jack a Kofi. Ayo left free throws on the line. Andre missed. GB gets stuffed by the rim. Ayo missed a point blank bunny. What else can be said?
Knew it was over within like 6 minutes of game start. Wow that’s quite a skill
 
#264      
Besides the poor shooting and weak rebounding which we have seen before, the most glaring weakness I see on this team is the lack of an additional scoring threat. It's too bad Miller is so inconsistent because it would really make it tougher to defend us. Maybe someone will step up but if not it really puts the pressure on the ones we have that can score.
 
#265      
Well...duh. That's not what I was responding to. See the bolded quote for context.

Edit: perhaps I should have said "program" instead of "team"...it's MSU history
True - Izzo has a history of getting his teams ready for the tourny and they have made deep runs even when they are inconsistent during the year- but he is literally one of the top modern era tournament coaches

we don’t have that history - and 99% of programs don’t. Not to depress you but we have literally never beaten a team more than one seed higher than us ever- in tournament history!

we beat cinci as the 4 seed when we were the 5 and UNLV as the 8 when we were the 9 - that’s it, those are the only two times we advanced more than we “should have” but those games were toss ups

So forgive some of us for wanting the team
to be hitting their stride by now, because we don’t think we can just turn it on come tournament time - because we never have. It’s not just that we lost- we were never in the game
 
#266      
I'm 100 on this. I lost respect for Izzo for being complicit with some of the previous players. However, he must have enjoyed the local 80's/early 90's Pistons with some of those cheap shots. We deserved to lose, but I wish Brad would have called that crap out, or at least got T'd up during the game. I don't care if we lose, but that was some bologna there. Could have seriously injured Ayo.
We are VERY lucky Ayo did not break a bone in his face. He took an elbow full speed from a huge dude.
 
#267      
to be fair, 3 of the fts misses were directly after taking an elbow straight to the front of the dome from a big man. You ever remember ayo missing 2 in a row? let alone 3?
What you do there is shoot to miss, and it will go in.
 
#269      
Glad I didn't post last night...maybe I would have got a flagrant 2 from Dan , but after a sleepless night I will share my thoughts with my illini brethren...

Reasons we lost.................

1. Refs were as bad as I can remember, worse than the loosier game and here is what I saw last nite...
The foul called on Coleman on the off end where he rebounded over a standing still Langford and hit the put back..No contact at all and Langford just stood there and Coleman played aggressive...2 points lost there.
The non call on a obvious flagrant one foul with hitting Kofi on the top of the head...If the tables had been turned Kofi might have been assessed a flag 2 and ejected.
The worst call was the Henry leg out of bounds call IN FRONT of the ref....that should be a rejection of ref creds for the rest of the season...
The same ref called msu ball when Langford clearly dribbled it out of bounds on the side near half court....
Larry S. is on the same level with me as DJ bald head ref as far as incompetent skills.. so many other non calls and please don't post about the number of fouls called on each team..Brad mentioned that msu fouls more than any other team in the country and the refs only call 50 % of the fouls...

2...worst Illini offensive play this year....12-30 in layups, per Brad...Ayo missed 2 point blank layups in the first half...how often does that happen...

3. one of our worst defensive played games this season....msu played in our grills and we played 2-3 feet off them...msu played a 1-2-2 off with all players out of the paint, did their pick and rolls and usually ended up with henry, Langford , etc hitting a 8-10 floater...

I have more thoughts but pain meds are kicking in so I'll part with this....

View attachment 7606
 
#270      
Urbana, IL
We are VERY lucky Ayo did not break a bone in his face. He took an elbow full speed from a huge dude.
Seemed to hit him square on the forehead. I wouldn't be surprised if he's icing it today. That looked pretty painful!
 
#271      
My lucky shirt is what doomed us. It was the 2005 final 4 shirt with the ticket stubs of all 4 teams in which Michigan state was on there also. Shoulda known it would jinx it.
 
#272      
You can wrap up this game at the free throw line. Plain and simple. Teams are going to hack Kofi. He has to hit his free throws. No he will not make all of them. What hurt were Ayo's missed free throws. Even BU said if Ayo hit them we would have been right on their tail. Game over on to Neb game. Pick themselves back up and win and win Sat.
 
#273      
Little Wabash River , Southern IL.
We win the next three games . No one will remember this game except we dont win the regular season title. It was a long shot anyway. I f 8 games ago you told any fan, player or coach you'll go 7-1 the next 8 but the eighth game will be an ugly loss. I think anyone would take it. regroup , refocus and realize you have to out tough the other team and the officials night in , night out in the big10
 
#274      
I agree wholeheartedly on the poorly called game. The plays you mentioned plus the one flop call on Trent was a no contact call.
Kofi was assaulted under the basket several times and there was no call. All that being said, Illinois still could have pulled it out if they had shot better from the line.
This really is a glaring weakness of this team. Especially Kofi. He has regressed in that department from last year. Granted he is probably getting more attempts this year, but that was to be expected. From the looks of it, his form is pretty good. He just needs to shoot 500 more in practice than he does now. If a team knows if they can foul him and it’s essentially a 50/50 chance he makes the top end of a 1/1 then keep fouling him. If they got them to give. But better teams will have them to give due to depth. The rest of the team is a toss up. Ayo and Trent are usually pretty good. The rest, just seems to be up and down. In the Minnesota game they all seemed to shoot above there avg. I could be wrong but without pulling up the stats, they did score over 90 points. Last night was the polar opposite. And they lost. Free throws are going to be crucial. I hope they can clean that part up. Go Illini!!!
 
#275      
Ordained Dudeist Priest
Johns Creek, GA
I don't think I've ever seen a game with as many missed dunks and bunny put-backs as last night, and I can't remember the last time an Illini team had 9 shots blocked. I pin a lot of that on the physicality that MSU brought on the inside.

But the free throws....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.