Well if we started Frazier and played that suicidal press defense, Frazier will be fouled out in 2 minutes
Minnesota 77, Illinois 67 POSTGAME
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Well if we started Frazier and played that suicidal press defense, Frazier will be fouled out in 2 minutes
Yes I agree Frazier did a better job than TJL. But the defense that BU rolled out at the start keeps giving free fouls and free points away. Trent could score 5 points more than TJL but he couldn't stop giving points away and stop fouling because that was what the system is about.
It's early in the BIG-10 season, the Illini are assimilating to BU's up tempo system and other than Finke, Black and maybe Lukas the team is playing with 18 year old freshmen. In spite of this, I expected more out of the team at this point. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations....
You did
sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
So will Ethan Happ (even though he's not a true big man - he knows how to play like one).
I'm curious to see how we handle Wagner on Saturday. I watch some UM games (wife's an alum). He can give us some real problems but can be inconsistent if you throw him off his game. If LB (or GE) can disrupt him without fouling, could actually be a very competitive game. If not, I expect a repeat of Minny.
TheFameProtector
- Champaign
I know, I sometimes hardly have the courage to get out of bed when our team performs like this. How am I supposed to face my friends and family?!?!
I too am tired of getting tossed around like a dish rag by a bunch of 19 year olds. I only went to the U of I so I could cheer on sports teams, and the ROI is unsatisfactory. They need to step their $#!+ up. Underwood has had plenty of time with this team and they have the experience level to not be bottom dwellers in the B1G.
I see a lot of people demanding Frazier and Damonte start. This is completely fine, but who and who does not start isn't going to fix this teams issues.
Te'Jon played 11 minutes, Frazier played 25 and Damonte played 28. While neither Frazier or Damonte started, they played starters minutes. If anyone knows a website that has +/- listed for players, I'd be very interested to see what it is for everyone.
This team has tons of flaws, but people should realistically be happy to see consistent improvement among all players and hopefully we will be playing spoiler for some teams making the tournament later in the year (mid February). If you had us making the tournament this year then you're either approaching the moment of being inconsolable or you will be in the next 2 weeks.
Te'Jon played 11 minutes, Frazier played 25 and Damonte played 28. While neither Frazier or Damonte started, they played starters minutes. If anyone knows a website that has +/- listed for players, I'd be very interested to see what it is for everyone.
This team has tons of flaws, but people should realistically be happy to see consistent improvement among all players and hopefully we will be playing spoiler for some teams making the tournament later in the year (mid February). If you had us making the tournament this year then you're either approaching the moment of being inconsolable or you will be in the next 2 weeks.
You gotta relax.
Before the 2nd TV timeout last night:
Lucas - 2 missed shots and 1 turnover and 1 rebound 1 foul
Frazier - 1 missed shot-1 missed free throw-1 foul-1 made shot-1 foul
Williams - 3 steals 1 1 turnover
I think Williams and Frazier flat out give us a better chance to win from the start of the games...Lucas and Smith at this point are undermanned overall in terms of acclimation and ability to contribute, EVEN in B1G games.
I understand some posters frustration. Been a long 4 years for illini BB. Before the season started Underwood said he expected to make the tournament. Coach speak, i don't know. I'm excited about the possibilities of this team in the future. I'll be more excited if a couple of recruits who are really needed sign on.
My thoughts ...long
Lot of over-reaction in this thread and I get that losing is frustrating but let's get some perspective...
This is a team that plays hard and looks to be very well coached. While I am frustrated with losses, especially those pulled from the jaws of victory, I can easily see the potential of this roster even for this year but especially for the future.
For this year, the frosh all show much potential and are gaining valuable meaningful minutes. Black is turning into a fringe All-Big 10 performer as Underwood predicted. Even last night's game against a talented team on the road the Illini had a good chance to win as has been the case in every game this season. Clearly Frazier earns the start but I am not giving up on Lucas who can certainly be a solid contributor and, if he is our backup PG, I will take that over the Groce years. The same for Kipper. Kipper is a X factor that if the light comes on could become an Illini season changer.
For the future, the entire lineup with that valuable experience and maturity is back except for Alstork and we gain the 1st 5-star player in some time. If the Illini can add any decent wing an/or big to next season's roster they could have a huge year-to-year improvement.
As for the lineup engineering in this thread...
1)Finke is almost certain to start and one game from Ebo does not nor should not change that. Yes, Finke is flawed and frustrating but it he is the best center we have right now as his +/- has shown.
2)Yes, Frazier needs to start but Mark Smith and Lucas can provide valuable backup minutes in that role.
3)I get that Alstork has been disappointing on offense. However, he does so many little things (passing/defense) that he needs to be out there. He just needs his offensive confidence back and it would go a long way toward improving this season's team.
4)Should Damonte start? Probably. I am not sure this one is as easy or necessary as Frazier. Keep in mind Damonte has struggled to score most of the season. I love him and saw in a bunch in HS so his all-around game is no surprise to me.
So, based on all this I see the starting lineup like this:
1)Frazier
2)Williams or Smith
3)Alstork
4)Black
5)Finke
Lot of over-reaction in this thread and I get that losing is frustrating but let's get some perspective...
This is a team that plays hard and looks to be very well coached. While I am frustrated with losses, especially those pulled from the jaws of victory, I can easily see the potential of this roster even for this year but especially for the future.
For this year, the frosh all show much potential and are gaining valuable meaningful minutes. Black is turning into a fringe All-Big 10 performer as Underwood predicted. Even last night's game against a talented team on the road the Illini had a good chance to win as has been the case in every game this season. Clearly Frazier earns the start but I am not giving up on Lucas who can certainly be a solid contributor and, if he is our backup PG, I will take that over the Groce years. The same for Kipper. Kipper is a X factor that if the light comes on could become an Illini season changer.
For the future, the entire lineup with that valuable experience and maturity is back except for Alstork and we gain the 1st 5-star player in some time. If the Illini can add any decent wing an/or big to next season's roster they could have a huge year-to-year improvement.
As for the lineup engineering in this thread...
1)Finke is almost certain to start and one game from Ebo does not nor should not change that. Yes, Finke is flawed and frustrating but it he is the best center we have right now as his +/- has shown.
2)Yes, Frazier needs to start but Mark Smith and Lucas can provide valuable backup minutes in that role.
3)I get that Alstork has been disappointing on offense. However, he does so many little things (passing/defense) that he needs to be out there. He just needs his offensive confidence back and it would go a long way toward improving this season's team.
4)Should Damonte start? Probably. I am not sure this one is as easy or necessary as Frazier. Keep in mind Damonte has struggled to score most of the season. I love him and saw in a bunch in HS so his all-around game is no surprise to me.
So, based on all this I see the starting lineup like this:
1)Frazier
2)Williams or Smith
3)Alstork
4)Black
5)Finke
While Williams had a great game, dont ignore easy points he left on the table.
I remember two 2 on 1s where he threw the ball directly away. Would've rather seen him miss a layup than that.
That being said, we was one of the best 5 on the court last night. I think he needs to be more aggressive. Easily someone ready to explode similar to Frazier.
So ya, Im in the Finke Black Alstork Williams Fraizer boat. At someone the narrative of "who starts doesn't matter" collides with all these extremely slow starts we've had. Fire lighting needs to happen.
I remember two 2 on 1s where he threw the ball directly away. Would've rather seen him miss a layup than that.
That being said, we was one of the best 5 on the court last night. I think he needs to be more aggressive. Easily someone ready to explode similar to Frazier.
So ya, Im in the Finke Black Alstork Williams Fraizer boat. At someone the narrative of "who starts doesn't matter" collides with all these extremely slow starts we've had. Fire lighting needs to happen.
skyIdub
"I can't tell you. Secret."
This teams biggest weakness.....all year....has been it's inability to start games with any fire or consistency. "Starters minutes" means absolutely nothing when you go 1-20 and are down by 20 after 8 minutes.
While it may not "fix" all of this teams issues, how you can continue to roll out the same five after 7-8 pitiful starts to games is beyond me. I'm no coach, but I would have made a change after 3-4 examples of this ridiculous play out of the gate.
mattcoldagelli
- Script Illinois Enthusiast
Is this a new saying I'm not aware of? Or is someone weirdly conflating "tossed around like a rag doll" with some dish-related cliche?
Future Walk-On
- Peoria, IL
Same. I can't even find it on KenPom with a paid subscription. Apparently when statsheet was around they did...but I have no idea now.
I emailed KP to ask about it, we will see if he replies.
It was one of the steps on John Groce’s cliche ladder
Deleted member 631370
D
Guest
I know, I sometimes hardly have the courage to get out of bed when our team performs like this. How am I supposed to face my friends and family?!?!
I too am tired of getting tossed around like a dish rag by a bunch of 19 year olds. I only went to the U of I so I could cheer on sports teams, and the ROI is unsatisfactory. They need to step their $#!+ up. Underwood has had plenty of time with this team and they have the experience level to not be bottom dwellers in the B1G.
Well done!
(assuming of course that this is sarcasm. Otherwise.....)
TheFameProtector
- Champaign
Gonna have to ask NScale on that one...I was just borrowing the phrase
GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
Under Weber and Groce, I stopped feeling so bummed after losses, because I expected them. Now, I don't get so bummed after losses because I see the potential.
I'm happy to see that most of the posts after this game are still very positive about the team and BU. We have deficiencies, but we are doing all we can to make up for them.
This team is never completely out of any game, and I like watching them play...even in a loss. I think we are in for some really good times in the near future.
I'm happy to see that most of the posts after this game are still very positive about the team and BU. We have deficiencies, but we are doing all we can to make up for them.
This team is never completely out of any game, and I like watching them play...even in a loss. I think we are in for some really good times in the near future.
skyIdub
"I can't tell you. Secret."
"Us alumni"? What, are you in some Super Secret Double Special Ultra Alumni Association?
What's the yearly fee?
True. There was a phrase tossed around a lot in years past: "It's not that we're losing, it's how we're losing." This team has grit & plays with fight. The days of getting blown out are gone. Yes, there are plenty of deficiencies, but none that seem too damning. Land a couple bigs, gain some experience and the future looks bright.
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