Nice first post. Thanks for being an Illini fan for 45 years and particularly so being in Indiana.
Missouri 79, Illinois 63 POSTGAME
Nice first post. Thanks for being an Illini fan for 45 years and particularly so being in Indiana.
the national
- the Front Range
You talk ALOT about our lack of recruiting. Sometimes I feel like you hit that issue too hard. However, this game completely showed it. You are 100% correct on this issue. I apologize for giving you a hard time about it.
I like our guys but in games like that, our weaknesses are glaring (lack of size, speed, strength)
Don't worry, Piper will soon write an article to correct her and set her straight.
the national
- the Front Range
And Chris Yates is also letting BU have it for playing Tyler. Does he ever post in here anymore? I miss the judge.
Yup, Piper/Werner will need to go into the all out protect mode at some point, just like they did with O'Brien. This staff has been incredibly good to those 2 guys in particular. After all selling info is their business.
Thanks but there is no need for apologies. I have strong views and thick skin and others have their own views. That's what makes message boards fun.
On the subject, I stress recruiting because IMO that is the fundamental prerequisite for having success at Illinois. It does not mean that players are bad or not competent (it takes a lot to get a Div. I scholarship at any team), but it is obvious that this team needs more Fraziers and Tilmons, complemented by more Giorgis and Picketts. And I use these names in a generic sense. I am not going to make a comparison with 1989 and 2005, those teams were more top heavy. But if you look at the roster in early 2000s, you have Frankie, Cook, Griff (despite injuries) and even Bradford (despite injuries) and you complement them with players like Sergio, Damir, Lucas, Arch, etc. Overall, that is the level of talent you need to become a contender, UI will never be able to reach UK, Duke and blue blood recruiting level.
There are 12.4M (+ 3M) reasons why BU is not going anywhere anytime soon. So the only way out of this, and my true hope for the program, is that our recruiting drastically improves. That is honestly my only remaining true hope, no other way out of it.
Not a good look for the entire university or team...Little Brother is not an option at all now...the family should be pissed and demanding a sit down, which I would never condone at all. But by doing what he did, and making the decisions that he is says alot. I understand changing the culture, but in what way is our culture been changed in 2 years? We are still losing and irrelevant.
On a side note a beautiful lady who cares alot for her kids....kudo's to her!
On a side note a beautiful lady who cares alot for her kids....kudo's to her!
It’s also personafied by trying to play systems that put those shortcomings on full display as opposed to trying mask them.
Blood bank guarantee
Philosophical question:
We are already at the point in the season where the W/L record has become irrelevant -- we are not good, and there is no evidence that (nod to Obelix) due to our recruiting over the past few years, we have the level of talent to "flip the switch" and start winning enough games this year to make anyone feel good about the season from a "left column/right column" perspective.
If you, as a coach, are trying to build the long-term "culture" of your program while positioning them to succeed in the future, is the correct action to take to play the younger players in an effort to get them to learn the system (a so-called trial by fire) in game settings more quickly, even if you may (a) forsake a handful of arguably "meaningless" wins; (b) lose by even more substantial margins than you may be losing today; and (c) be playing players who may not be performing the best in practice, who make more mistakes on the court, and who (may or may not) be showing less responsibility for the proverbial 'taking care of business' off the court; or do you have a "duty of care" to those players who (a) practice hardest, (b) can keep games closer due to their ability to minimize mistakes; and (c) fully live up to their responsibilities off the court?
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, but I think there are implications for the long term success and direction of the program, both positive and negative, in both approaches.
We are already at the point in the season where the W/L record has become irrelevant -- we are not good, and there is no evidence that (nod to Obelix) due to our recruiting over the past few years, we have the level of talent to "flip the switch" and start winning enough games this year to make anyone feel good about the season from a "left column/right column" perspective.
If you, as a coach, are trying to build the long-term "culture" of your program while positioning them to succeed in the future, is the correct action to take to play the younger players in an effort to get them to learn the system (a so-called trial by fire) in game settings more quickly, even if you may (a) forsake a handful of arguably "meaningless" wins; (b) lose by even more substantial margins than you may be losing today; and (c) be playing players who may not be performing the best in practice, who make more mistakes on the court, and who (may or may not) be showing less responsibility for the proverbial 'taking care of business' off the court; or do you have a "duty of care" to those players who (a) practice hardest, (b) can keep games closer due to their ability to minimize mistakes; and (c) fully live up to their responsibilities off the court?
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, but I think there are implications for the long term success and direction of the program, both positive and negative, in both approaches.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I think a culture in which playing time is determined based on quality of performance is a very, very important thing to establish in college sports.
That doesn't mean you should let a worthy player just languish, there are a lot of minutes to go around, but I don't think you ever want these impressionable kids to get the idea that there is any outside consideration that could take precedence over doing whatever it takes to win that day's game.
There's no basketball reason Kane should not have seen more time last night. He's been much better on the floor than DLR. Underwood, keeps saying he's not up to speed yet, then don't play him! Coaches feel an obligation to these 5th year transfers which is why they stick with them even when they play Kane. No way Griffin or Jones should not see time ahead of TU. I have noticed that Griffin's ball handling has been shaky. More so than I would have expected. However, I'm not saying he shouldn't be playing more and maybe that would lead to more comfort on the floor.
This program cannot take transfers at the end of the year. They don't have the depth or recruits coming (none signed) to absorb that in my opinion. He would be wise to get Kane, Griffin and Jones on the floor much more.
This program cannot take transfers at the end of the year. They don't have the depth or recruits coming (none signed) to absorb that in my opinion. He would be wise to get Kane, Griffin and Jones on the floor much more.
At least nobody is on the ledge, ready to jump.
At the risk of staying the gray area, while most on the board are black and white, I try to understand what a coach is thinking personnel-wise. I wonder if it wasn't his son playing , the uproar would be as great. He brings him in very short spurts (usually a possession or 2) and asks him to not lose the ball and stay in front of his man. He pretty much does that. It's obvious that Illinois' margin for error is very small and a possession or 2 is critical. Griffin is athletic and has a great future, but does struggle holding onto the ball. He looks nervous with the ball , similar to D'amonte last year. Many say just play the younger guys with a brighter future and live with those mistakes) and I get that, but it's still December and I doubt Underwood is ready to write off the rest of the season. Some of the social media stuff since last night has made me appreciate Mr. Jordan even more. Just the 2 cents of a coach of another sport.illiniCA
- DC Area
Yeah. I am actually a fan of the staff as a whole but I’m really worried about Underwood. I am worried about another restart.
Deleted member 631370
D
Guest
Not only are we losing games, but we are getting a beating in various PR arenas lately. Having a parent so vocally slam our coach is not a good look.
Steelyunk
- Tobacco Road
Whether you want to admit it or not there is a problem when you try to use this system yet play the wrong players. This is very reminiscent of when Groce or Weber would have 2 players on the floor that could score and wonder how we can't keep up. We are still in the same boat when we have Feliz, Williams/Underwood, Ayo and Giorgi on the floor with Trent. One to one and a half offensive players to the other teams five.
Not if he is getting garbage minutes, or if he was actually contributing to the wins
Also, on the defensive end Griffin blocked two shots in one game. Tyler can't do that if he plays 40 minutes a game.
No, because that record isn't signifying of a train that has de-railed off the freaking track.
Deleted member 631370
D
Guest
No. But we're not 8-4, and as such, this staff should probably think about how their decisions influence those around them.
It's like running a halfback dive for 2 yards on 3rd and 9. If you do it when you're up 41-7, nobody cares. If you do it when you're down 3 in the 4th quarter, that's a big problem. Situations matter.
Cook
- Richmond, VA
Good grief, epitome of "not a good look" for the program
By the time we get to 8-4, TU will be history. May be by a few years.
I am now more concerned about collateral damage. As in lack of recruits.
