Missouri 81, Illinois 78 Postgame

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#201      

BBIQ

Texas
For all the hand-wringing about Curbelo you'd think he had more than 2 turnovers. That's right, 2. To go with 14 points and 4 assists. I also think he kind of brought Kofi back into this game a little at the end with a couple nice feeds that allowed Kofi to build a little confidence. I think Ayo and Curbelo are honestly the only two players who don't need to fret about their performance too much (though they should practice FTs)
You can still have ugly possessions without turnovers and there were a few of those. That 3 pointer he took was bad shot selection too. We had momentum and just wasted that possession. I love the kid and he will be a star I have no doubt but somethings don't show up in the stat sheet.
 
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#202      
You can still have ugly possessions without turnovers and there were a few of those. That 3 pointer he took was bad shot selection too. We had momentum and just wasted that possession. I love the kid and he will be a star I have no doubt but somethings don't show up in the stat sheet.
Spot on...I read some of the comments on him, and you would think he is Bob Cousy. Eventually, maybe.
 
#203      
You can still have ugly possessions without turnovers and there were a few of those. That 3 pointer he took was bad shot selection too. We had momentum and just wasted that possession. I love the kid and he will be a star I have no doubt but somethings don't show up in the stat sheet.
It is certainly true that he made mistakes. But in a game where Giorgi had 0 points and 2 turnovers, Trent had just 4 points and 1 assist, DMW had 3 points, Miller had 2 points (on 1-6 shooting), and Kofi couldn't hold on to simple passes and only managed to get 6 boards (in another game we got out-rebounded) you and others are singling out the guy who's line, off the bench, is 14 pts, 4 rebounds 4 assists and 2 turnovers.
 
#204      
You can still have ugly possessions without turnovers and there were a few of those. That 3 pointer he took was bad shot selection too. We had momentum and just wasted that possession. I love the kid and he will be a star I have no doubt but somethings don't show up in the stat sheet.
I agree. He missed a number of plays that he should have made. Trent should have received the ball immediately after making that 3. He seems to have the mentality of it is my turn to shoot, now. Great skills but, definitely needs to learn where to go with the ball.
 
#205      

BBIQ

Texas
It is certainly true that he made mistakes. But in a game where Giorgi had 0 points and 2 turnovers, Trent had just 4 points and 1 assist, DMW had 3 points, Miller had 2 points (on 1-6 shooting), and Kofi couldn't hold on to simple passes and only managed to get 6 boards (in another game we got out-rebounded) you and others are singling out the guy who's line, off the bench, is 14 pts, 4 rebounds 4 assists and 2 turnovers.
You may have missed one of my posts. I didn't single him out, I said the entire team outside of Ayo stunk.
 
#206      
It is certainly true that he made mistakes. But in a game where Giorgi had 0 points and 2 turnovers, Trent had just 4 points and 1 assist, DMW had 3 points, Miller had 2 points (on 1-6 shooting), and Kofi couldn't hold on to simple passes and only managed to get 6 boards (in another game we got out-rebounded) you and others are singling out the guy who's line, off the bench, is 14 pts, 4 rebounds 4 assists and 2 turnovers.

Curbelo was great for a freshman and certainly was not our weak link in that game. I have a feeling people are signaling him out because he held for a significant number of minutes and a lot of viewers have trouble watching off-ball players and defensive action.

Ayo was our best player through 37 minutes of the game. Curbelo, Da'Monte, and Kofi each have a case to be made to why they could have been our 2nd strongest player - I'd personally rank Ayo (A), Curbelo (B), Da'Monte (B-), Kofi (C+), Rest of team (C to D).
 
#207      
Just don’t understand total focus on points made when the problem was defense and rebounding. Not one who believes it was lack of effort. Last time we allowed 80+ points was 12/2/2019. We had better shooting stats on everything but FT’s. Defense was not prepared but not enough of expert to know what was wrong. May have something to do with 20 fast break points.
 
#209      
I love Ayo, but too much hero ball at the end. He forgets there are 4 other guys on the floor in those situations. Curbelo on the other hand has a knack for finding the open guy and getting him the ball. Seems pretty obvious you'd want him handling the ball with Ayo playing off the ball
It's hard to find the other guys when they are trying to hide. Belo and Kofi were the only other two willing to get involved.
 
#210      
Lots of things went poorly, but the simple fact was Missouri just took it to us. Again. They were ready for a battle and we weren’t. Idk why. Seemed like they got every 50/50 ball. They took us out of our game and we were unable to adjust. I know we will get better but it’s disappointing that the edge we had at the end of last year isn’t there right now. I honestly expected us to pick up where we left off. Our 3’s are still not dependable even with the upgrade in talent. Tonight we badly missed Dre’s toughness.
Preach it brother.
 
#211      
We came out hungrier against Duke and imposed our will from start to finish. We didn't have the same hunger and intensity against Mizzou, in their building. Almost as if we were still riding high off our win against Duke. The outplayed and out-efforted us until late in the 2nd half. We turned up the heat then but had we played with that same intensity in that stretch for the rest of the game, we win fairly comfortably IMO. Oh and hitting our dang FTs too.

We better bring it every night because the competition only gets tougher. We're gonna get everyone's best punch
 
#212      
Again with terrible free throw shooting. Thus Kofi has regressed. Last year I thought he had good touch for a big. This year, (without looking it up, just an observation) his free throw shooting is worse. And he misses too many within two feet of the basket. I hate to pick on him, but as a previous freshman of the year and a possible first round draft pick, he needs to really work on his handling of the ball. He often fumbles passes and for God Sake, use a ball or head fake instead of going straight up. A kid that big and strong should be throwing down the basket within three feet. Missouri, with several of our former commits just worked and played harder. They killed it at the free throw line. That is one of THEE most frustrating things to watch. The easiest most fundamental play in basketball and to miss that many uncontested shots. They have to do better. Too many unforced turnovers as well. I hate that we have lost three of these in a row and to watch former commits hoist the trophy. At this point they have come out ahead. They killed us. We really need to work on some basic fundamentals. Better FT shooting, fewer unforced errors, ball fakes, head fakes, clean passes, less traveling/double dribbles. Ayo and Kofi are the stars of this team. They need start playing like they are men against boys. Clean it up Underwood and get this team ready for a grueling big ten schedule. Baylor should our only loss. Last nights loss was self inflicted, poor officiating or not. You have to make what they give you. No one expects perfection every game or at all, but 17/28 isn’t going to do it against good teams. We are better than this. Go Illini!
 
#213      

BBIQ

Texas
Problem wasn’t shooting except for free throws.
That's what I was responding to. Someone said we missed our free throws therefore we were outcoached.
 
#214      
Again with terrible free throw shooting. Thus Kofi has regressed. Last year I thought he had good touch for a big. This year, (without looking it up, just an observation) his free throw shooting is worse. And he misses too many within two feet of the basket. I hate to pick on him, but as a previous freshman of the year and a possible first round draft pick, he needs to really work on his handling of the ball. He often fumbles passes and for God Sake, use a ball or head fake instead of going straight up. A kid that big and strong should be throwing down the basket within three feet. Missouri, with several of our former commits just worked and played harder.
Kofi isn't perfect but I think some folks expect too much from him. He is relatively new to the game (I expect several posters here have more experience than he has). That being said, he is pretty darn good. Compare his freshman stats to Garza and you'll find them to be very similar (with Kofi coming out on top in most). Same with Meyers Leonard.
 
#215      
Starting with about 5 minutes left, this is what Ayo did in order:
Missed a layup that Kofi rebounded and slammed
Turned the ball over, we got it back and fed it back to Ayo who then charged (2 turnovers on one play)
Made a 2
Hit the side of the backboard
Turned the ball over
Called for another charge (he did extend his arm out)
Threw up the slop shot
Ayo is an incredible player, and we wouldn’t have been in the game without an outstanding game from him, but let’s not rewrite history and pretend our star player can do no wrong. As mentioned above, he’s a smart player and will adjust. He tries to do too much and I blame coach for letting it happen again. We looked so good against Duke because we played team ball throughout and moved the ball around to everyone.
Some were complaining about his performance in the previous game when in fact he had a much better game while scoring 18 points than he did here scoring 36. In the Duke game he let the game come to him and skillfully invoved his teammates whereas he play too much hero ball against Missouri.
 
#216      
I knew it’d be a game, but expected a 5+ point win for our guys.

Curbelo played too many minutes.
Kofi has butterfingers. Still.
Trent, 4 points, unacceptable.

We’re top 20 good. For now.
If Kofi struggles to catch the ball in the post this season, we’re going to lose games that we shouldn’t.
 
#218      
This season Kofi really seems to regressed in catching the ball. I wonder why the coaching staff can't improve on that. I don't see anyway he is going to be a NBA player after this year, he still has a lot to improve on.
 
#219      

Cook

Richmond, VA
For all the hand-wringing about Curbelo you'd think he had more than 2 turnovers. That's right, 2. To go with 14 points and 4 assists. I also think he kind of brought Kofi back into this game a little at the end with a couple nice feeds that allowed Kofi to build a little confidence. I think Ayo and Curbelo are honestly the only two players who don't need to fret about their performance too much (though they should practice FTs)
I get what you're saying but not all bad outcomes are captured as a turnover even when the change of possession is equivalent, e.g. out of control shot that has no chance of going in and with our guys in bad rebounding position
*This has already been discussed above
 
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#220      
I get what you're saying but not all bad outcomes are captured as a turnover even when the change of possession is equivalent, e.g. out of control shot that has no chance of going in and with our guys in bad rebounding position
*This has already been discussed above
I get that, but even if you assume every missed Curbelo shot was that situation (which it wasn't) then you have 9 possessions where he ended the possession in a positive outcome (5 made shots + 4 assists) to 7 possessions ended in a bad outcome (5 missed shots + 2 turnovers). 9/16 = 56%. Overall we shot 53%. So Curbelo ending possessions with a basket or an assist 56% of the time is not bad. And again, not all 5 of his missed shots conform to that specific scenario where he takes a bad shot. I know he jacked up a bad 3, that was dumb, but can't think of any other specific instances. Pretty sure some of his misses were layups that were not bad shots to take.
 
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#221      
We have a gift in Curbelo, he can do things few can do, his negative is he is young and it is early in the season, plus he missed important time with the concussion. I feel like he will gift us with many moments to remember. I will be balding by the end of his time here but........
 
#222      
That's what I was responding to. Someone said we missed our free throws therefore we were outcoached.
I have tried for several years to find out which coach is in charge of shooting/free throws. Does anyone know? Coaching shooting is an art & just because you are good at coaching or were a good shooter yourself doesnt mean you can teach it or help someone get better at it. I have a good friend who was the free throw shooting coach for the Dallas Mavericks for years & watched him not only teach NBA players but numerous college players too how to better shoot free throws. Since we have been a poor free throw shooting team for years it may very well be that we are "getting outcoached" in that area.
 
#223      

Ken

chitown
You can still have ugly possessions without turnovers and there were a few of those. That 3 pointer he took was bad shot selection too. We had momentum and just wasted that possession. I love the kid and he will be a star I have no doubt but somethings don't show up in the stat sheet.

but you are blatantly ignoring things that dont show up in stats that he does on the positive side as well. If you were to toss it all on a scale hes doing far more good things than bad and hes the only natural pg and ballhandler on this team

But even with that said you are bringing up one shot with over 6 minutes left to play and harping on momentum that Curbelo actually helped generate and it doesn't make sense from an eye test or intangible test .

We scored 78 points and were down 69-56 with 9:18 left to play

You had 2 fts by Curbelo
rebound by Curbelo and push to Ayo for jumper
Curbelo finds Trent for three
Curbelo steal and feeds Ayo for AND 1
Curbelo missed three bad shot
Curbelo feeds Kofi for dunk and we are within 1 with 4:27 left 75-74

From that point on

Ayo Turnover
Ayo jumper
Damonte missed three
Ayo missed layup
Ayo turnover
Ayo turnover
until the 40 sec mark when Curbelo feeds Kofi for a dunk our last points and its 80-78
Ayo missing another to end game


Hes a freshmen they always have room to improve but honestly its baffling that anyone would think this post game would be the one to bring it up as some indicator of that when you have your upperclassmen Trent, Damonte, and Giorgi having such off games .


=
 
#224      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
I finally listened to the coach's presser and, as usual, he was spot on with his remarks....

we fouled too much.....
we missed too many FTS.....
3 TEAM off rebs in first half....
effort was off and it showed in the missed FTS
Giorgi didn't have the impact that he usually does in a game....foul trouble , etc
team D wasn't as intense....we did a lot of grabbing and reaching instead of foot movement and proper spacing

losing this game hurts bad....REALLY bad ....as bad as the 3 OT game when garris missed his FT's

On to the next game against the goofers....btw, they received 1 vote in the AP poll.....we fell where I thought we would be in the # 12-15 range...

ps....for everyone ragging on Curbelo.....he is a treat to watch ....period....he will make mistakes, but he more than makes up for them with his blistering plays , either driving the rim and scoring or assisting others .....fast becoming one of my most favored Illini...we have been clamoring for someone to drive to the rim for years and now we have one....ENJOY
 
#225      
End of that game was very Groce/Hill esque. Zero desire to play team ball. It almost worked, but fact remains you dont win at the level we want to using that method all year.

Anyone who thinks Curbelo is a net negative to this team is kidding themselves. He might have been our third best player yesterday. He needs to see 25+ mins of tick when he's performing the way he did.

This game was so similar to the previous two years it's laughable. Disregard the reffing, missed fts, being away, and any other lame excuses we have for that loss, Mizzou wanted that game more than we did, full stop. They won that game because of effort.
 
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