NBA Draft

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#127      
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#130      
What's most impressive to me is that you'll look at the box score at the end of the game and think "oh, he had 25?" You knew he had a good game, but not necessarily 25 pt good. I think it's because of the weapons around him. You're noticing Andrej hit some layups and Mirk pop a couple threes and there's too much to focus on, then all of a sudden he's had an all time elite eight performance.
 
#131      
What's most impressive to me is that you'll look at the box score at the end of the game and think "oh, he had 25?" You knew he had a good game, but not necessarily 25 pt good. I think it's because of the weapons around him. You're noticing Andrej hit some layups and Mirk pop a couple threes and there's too much to focus on, then all of a sudden he's had an all time elite eight performance.

I think because he plays so within the flow of the game he doesn't often have many big dramatic runs where hes hitting a bunch of shots in a row. Most of his production tends to be so spread out throughout the game so its not as noticeable.
 
#132      
Some will claim he should be higher, some will claim he should be lower; if I had to bet, I think that’s where it lands at the end.

Have to recognize how phenomenal Acuff was, and the top 4 are all transcendent talents.

It’s such a terrific class. If this were last year, he may have gone 2 or 3.
Acuff doesn’t even make a effort to play defense
 
#133      
I think 6 is that sweet spot that wagler will go. Wilson probably still gets number 4... hard to teach 6'10, young and that consistent. I think someone may take a flyer on Acuff at 5.... if he measures ok. his explosiveness is unreal. I think Flemings may have dropped behind wagler and may be smaller than 6'4 in reality
 
#134      
After watching Acuff more this weekend, I’d probably take him over everyone except Boozer. He really does play like a Derrick Rose but with a better 3pt shot.

My top 4:
#1. Boozer (NBA comp: Tatum)
#2. Acuff (Rose)
#3. Wagler (Curry)
#4. Dybantsa (Jaylen Brown)

I could see taking Dybantsa over Wagler due to the defensive value Dybantsa likely brings.
Of your list, 1, 2 and 4 are plug n play guys.

Keaton needs a couple of years of physical development. There is no way he's ready to be a rotational player yet in the NBA. When you're drafting in the top 5, teams expect contribution because they suck. You can argue top 7 for Keaton with 8-10 being fat more likely.

While the ceiling might be higher, his ability to guard a physically developed NBA player or finish at the rim vs NBA size isn't remotely close to being ready.

I'm not sure we've seen him go up and bring the house down with a massive stuff on a big's head. At 6'6", blowing teams away with that freak athleticism is what's missing. We then go back to the physical development part of the equation.

I think it was Jay Bilas who comped him to Tyrese Haliburton. That is FAR more realistic. He was passed on a few times because of very similar concerns.

There's a fine line between the god awful teams and teams that are bad, but the fandom has more patience. The Bulls are a CLASSIC example of this. They're really, really bad, but are willing to draft guys that they know they'll have a year to develop.

Edit: There is a HUGE caveat here. The NCAA Tournament can create heroes on the big stage. They can make guys a lot of money. If he hangs 30 on UConn and 25 on Arizona/Michigan in a fairly(without taking 22 shots).....that would be an enormous game change for him.
 
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#135      
I think 6 is that sweet spot that wagler will go. Wilson probably still gets number 4... hard to teach 6'10, young and that consistent. I think someone may take a flyer on Acuff at 5.... if he measures ok. his explosiveness is unreal. I think Flemings may have dropped behind wagler and may be smaller than 6'4 in reality
I literally said the same exact thing in a post above. You just copied my idea. But somehow your post has 3 likes and mine has none.
 
#136      

A clear consensus is starting to build for Dybantsa, Peterson, Boozer and Wilson atop draft boards. After that, there's a glut of ballhandling guards who will determine the direction of the draft.

And, depending on who's talking, there's a different ranking among Arkansas' Darius Acuff Jr., Houston's Kingston Flemings and Illinois' Keaton Wagler, with some preferring Louisville's Mikel Brown Jr. and Arizona's Brayden Burries, too.

Several executives cited how important combine measurements could be in this process, particularly for Acuff (listed at 6-3) and Flemings (6-4). That duo and Wagler (6-6) are widely considered the strongest candidates for the No. 5 spot.”


….

Wagler, on the other hand, is a remarkable story, having burst onto the scene during the Illini's run to the Final Four, turning himself into a mid-lottery pick in the process. A three-star high school recruit who entered the season with no national profile, Wagler's ability to play both on and off the ball at his size gives him added role versatility.

"When people talk about ceiling arguments, they get into the physical stuff," an East executive said. "But the thing that unites all of the top [NBA] players is being elite mentally, and that's the thing that gets underrated in all of this."

"[Wagler] is going to have to get stronger," a West executive said, "but I'll take my chances on a 6-6 guy who can basically run the show. And he plays with such tremendous pace and feel."”
 
#137      

A clear consensus is starting to build for Dybantsa, Peterson, Boozer and Wilson atop draft boards. After that, there's a glut of ballhandling guards who will determine the direction of the draft.

And, depending on who's talking, there's a different ranking among Arkansas' Darius Acuff Jr., Houston's Kingston Flemings and Illinois' Keaton Wagler, with some preferring Louisville's Mikel Brown Jr. and Arizona's Brayden Burries, too.

Several executives cited how important combine measurements could be in this process, particularly for Acuff (listed at 6-3) and Flemings (6-4). That duo and Wagler (6-6) are widely considered the strongest candidates for the No. 5 spot.”


….

Wagler, on the other hand, is a remarkable story, having burst onto the scene during the Illini's run to the Final Four, turning himself into a mid-lottery pick in the process. A three-star high school recruit who entered the season with no national profile, Wagler's ability to play both on and off the ball at his size gives him added role versatility.

"When people talk about ceiling arguments, they get into the physical stuff," an East executive said. "But the thing that unites all of the top [NBA] players is being elite mentally, and that's the thing that gets underrated in all of this."

"[Wagler] is going to have to get stronger," a West executive said, "but I'll take my chances on a 6-6 guy who can basically run the show. And he plays with such tremendous pace and feel."”
Essentially: his draft range is 5-7.
 
#138      
If he goes fifth, there will be four GMs whose legacy will forever be that they didn’t draft Wagler.

Ayo starting to feel similar now that he has the ball in his hands and the right sitch.
 
#140      
Ayo starting to feel similar now that he has the ball in his hands and the right sitch.
Ayo should have gone much higher but I don't think there are any GM's losing sleep over taking Cade Cunningham, Alperen Sengun, Josh Giddey, Franz Wagner, Scottie Barnes, etc. That was a good draft. As is the coming one.
 
#141      
Essentially: his draft range is 5-7.
Definitely sounds like Acuff over Keaton is not a given. He’s a remarkable scorer, but so is every guard in the NBA. Will he ever be able to stop anyone?
Keaton just keeps passing test after test. He will get stronger, he can already shoot it.
As explosive as Acuff is on offense, he can’t learn to be 6’6”.
 
#142      
Ayo should have gone much higher but I don't think there are any GM's losing sleep over taking Cade Cunningham, Alperen Sengun, Josh Giddey, Franz Wagner, Scottie Barnes, etc. That was a good draft. As is the coming one.
And as much as draft night was a disappointment, the market essentially corrected after the first two years, with Ayo getting as much by Year 3 as mid 1st rounders still on their first contract. And he's about step onto the pay elevator again this summer...
 
#143      
And as much as draft night was a disappointment, the market essentially corrected after the first two years, with Ayo getting as much by Year 3 as mid 1st rounders still on their first contract. And he's about step onto the pay elevator again this summer...

Which speaks to the importance of just getting into the league as fast as possible to get to those big contracts sooner
 
#144      

A clear consensus is starting to build for Dybantsa, Peterson, Boozer and Wilson atop draft boards. After that, there's a glut of ballhandling guards who will determine the direction of the draft.

And, depending on who's talking, there's a different ranking among Arkansas' Darius Acuff Jr., Houston's Kingston Flemings and Illinois' Keaton Wagler, with some preferring Louisville's Mikel Brown Jr. and Arizona's Brayden Burries, too.

Several executives cited how important combine measurements could be in this process, particularly for Acuff (listed at 6-3) and Flemings (6-4). That duo and Wagler (6-6) are widely considered the strongest candidates for the No. 5 spot.”


….

Wagler, on the other hand, is a remarkable story, having burst onto the scene during the Illini's run to the Final Four, turning himself into a mid-lottery pick in the process. A three-star high school recruit who entered the season with no national profile, Wagler's ability to play both on and off the ball at his size gives him added role versatility.

"When people talk about ceiling arguments, they get into the physical stuff," an East executive said. "But the thing that unites all of the top [NBA] players is being elite mentally, and that's the thing that gets underrated in all of this."

"[Wagler] is going to have to get stronger," a West executive said, "but I'll take my chances on a 6-6 guy who can basically run the show. And he plays with such tremendous pace and feel."”
Am I the only thinking the NBA teams should avoid Boozer?
 
#145      
Wagler No. 5 in updated CBS mock:


“This would be a tricky spot for Utah given the breakout year of Keyonte George, another quality young point guard behind him in Isaiah Collier and the quartet of young lead guards headlining the list of best available prospects behind the top four. Of that group, Wagler may be the best fit because of the combination of size and shooting that would give him on/off ball versatility and allow him to pair with either George or Collier. Wagler was not his best in the national semifinal loss to UConn, but he still scored 20 points (on 44% shooting) and grabbed eight rebounds. His ability on the boards -- he had 12 in the Sweet 16 -- is a really nice component of the guard's game.”
 
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#146      
Will Riley is a great test case for Keaton. Similar players. Both could’ve used two more seasons with Fletch but Will has now hit his stride after taking some lumps his rookie NBA season. If I’m an NBA scout now seeing Will putting up 30 I look at Keaton from the same program and see a repeat. I actually think Keaton is better as good as Will is. And NBA scouts know that Illinois runs a pro style offense that is very adaptable to NBA. We’re becoming an NBA factory which won’t hurt in recruiting.
 
#147      
Will Riley is a great test case for Keaton. Similar players. Both could’ve used two more seasons with Fletch but Will has now hit his stride after taking some lumps his rookie NBA season. If I’m an NBA scout now seeing Will putting up 30 I look at Keaton from the same program and see a repeat. I actually think Keaton is better as good as Will is. And NBA scouts know that Illinois runs a pro style offense that is very adaptable to NBA. We’re becoming an NBA factory which won’t hurt in recruiting.
I agree with everything except both could have used two more years with Fletch. That helps how? You don't think the NBA has strength coaches? Either staying , KJ also, does nothing to help them prepare for the NBA. Playing in the NBA helps make you better.
 
#148      
Will Riley is a great test case for Keaton. Similar players. Both could’ve used two more seasons with Fletch but Will has now hit his stride after taking some lumps his rookie NBA season. If I’m an NBA scout now seeing Will putting up 30 I look at Keaton from the same program and see a repeat. I actually think Keaton is better as good as Will is. And NBA scouts know that Illinois runs a pro style offense that is very adaptable to NBA. We’re becoming an NBA factory which won’t hurt in recruiting.
Season 5 No GIF by The Office
 
#149      
Wagler No. 5 in updated CBS mock:


“This would be a tricky spot for Utah given the breakout year of Keyonte George, another quality young point guard behind him in Isaiah Collier and the quartet of young lead guards headlining the list of best available prospects behind the top four. Of that group, Wagler may be the best fit because of the combination of size and shooting that would give him on/off ball versatility and allow him to pair with either George or Collier. Wagler was not his best in the national semifinal loss to UConn, but he still scored 20 points (on 44% shooting) and grabbed eight rebounds. His ability on the boards -- he had 12 in the Sweet 16 -- is a really nice component of the guard's game.”
It's funny, I actually though the UConn game was one of Wagler's best in recent months from a scouting perspective, he was more assertive about getting to his spots and making shots at the rim.

5-for-6 on 2-pointers is the best he's done in awhile.

I'd still take Acuff over him, but all in all the tournament answered some of my mounting doubts about his stock.

Now he enters the tape-measures and empty gyms part of the process, for which scouts have low expectations for him, maybe he can surprise them.
 
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