NBA Draft

#401      
ChiefGritty
illinitiger said:
Speaking of Michigan ...I've been hearing Mara has jumped up draft boards possibly to Clippers Nets or Hawks🤔
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Mara is not Wemby now and he won't be Wemby in the future.

HAVING SAID THAT, what teams are seeing in terms of what that combination of extremely tall rim protection on one end and a high skill level unusual for a 7-footer on the other end can do the physics and the strategy of basketball makes Mara a very appealing prospect.

Really wanted him for the Bulls but 4 is too high and he's never lasting to 15.
 
#402      
the juiceman cometh
mysterio2525 said:
what about the thought, had we not started Ben after the first month over morez we possibly could have both morez and mirk. according to the insiders, we had morez signed to come back. I don't know if he didn't feel like he was riding pine for a guy he was clearly better he may have never considered leaving at all. and my assumption was that mirk wasnt known by others this time last year. I certainly don't know what was going on behind the scenes, but feels like there is a world we're we could have had both had we managed playing time little differently.
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1. Surprised the BH hate still is a thing after the season he had. Morez did leave because of some Benjamins, but Ben Humrichous was not one of them.

2. The difference in avg mpg between freshman Morez and UM Morez was 7.5. With us he averaged 5.7 fouls per 40 minutes. That's a foul every 7 minutes. With UM he brought that down to 3.7 per 40. That's where the minutes difference comes from, not from BH playing.

3. Hard to imagine we pursue Mirk if we already have Morez for that role, harder to imagine Mirk comes here to back up Morez. Don't remember the timeline exactly but my recollection is that Mirk was more or less a direct result of Morez leaving and us needing to find a replacement.
 
#403      
Emerson Bigguns
ChiefGritty said:
Mara is not Wemby now and he won't be Wemby in the future.

HAVING SAID THAT, what teams are seeing in terms of what that combination of extremely tall rim protection on one end and a high skill level unusual for a 7-footer on the other end can do the physics and the strategy of basketball makes Mara a very appealing prospect.

Really wanted him for the Bulls but 4 is too high and he's never lasting to 15.
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Yeah, I think anyone who has watched the Spurs in the playoffs is asking themselves what they are going to do with this guy for the next 10 years... You certainly can't just let him catch lobs all day. Mara's ascension on the draft boards probably has more to do with his measurements than anything they saw on tape.

Mara is super tall, moves reasonably well, and can get his hands really high in the air. If you are going to win big in the next several years you're going to need a guy like that, and there just aren't very many.

Big Z's chances of of making the NBA have also increased during this playoffs, even if his role is a guy that sits on the bench until the Spurs roll into town... You're going to need a guy who is well over 7 feet and can move to even make Wemby think about how he is being guarded.

This must be how people felt when Wilt got to the league... He's like the 8th grader who shows up at a 5th grade pick up game...

If you are a Western Conference team, you have too consider Mara.... Dallas, GS,... if he gets to 12, you have t believe OKC will jump on him. They could use him tonight.
 
#405      
GrayGhost77
the juiceman cometh said:
1. Surprised the BH hate still is a thing after the season he had. Morez did leave because of some Benjamins, but Ben Humrichous was not one of them.

2. The difference in avg mpg between freshman Morez and UM Morez was 7.5. With us he averaged 5.7 fouls per 40 minutes. That's a foul every 7 minutes. With UM he brought that down to 3.7 per 40. That's where the minutes difference comes from, not from BH playing.

3. Hard to imagine we pursue Mirk if we already have Morez for that role, harder to imagine Mirk comes here to back up Morez. Don't remember the timeline exactly but my recollection is that Mirk was more or less a direct result of Morez leaving and us needing to find a replacement.
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Agree on the last point especially. And also, the team dynamic is completely different if we have Morez and not Mirk. What Mirk brought to the team transcends even what he brought on the court, and I really don't think we go as far as we did without that.
 
#406      
altgeld88
OlafB said:
View attachment 50338

Fears at the combine...
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I'm confused; is Fears the cat or the girl in this scenario?

The case for "girl": flopping and not ready for prime time; appealing immediately to the unseen official for a quick whistle.

The case for "cat": General first-class D-baggery. Though in the cat's defense, it didn't apply a sharp elbow to her neck or a donkey-kick in the groin. His premeditated tripping of her is positively sportsmanlike.

I can't wait to enjoy another season of deeply misunderstood Fears (and Izzo) enduring the outrageous slings and arrows of Big Ten fortune.
 
#408      
blackdog
Emerson Bigguns said:
Yeah, I think anyone who has watched the Spurs in the playoffs is asking themselves what they are going to do with this guy for the next 10 years... You certainly can't just let him catch lobs all day. Mara's ascension on the draft boards probably has more to do with his measurements than anything they saw on tape.

Mara is super tall, moves reasonably well, and can get his hands really high in the air. If you are going to win big in the next several years you're going to need a guy like that, and there just aren't very many.

Big Z's chances of of making the NBA have also increased during this playoffs, even if his role is a guy that sits on the bench until the Spurs roll into town... You're going to need a guy who is well over 7 feet and can move to even make Wemby think about how he is being guarded.

This must be how people felt when Wilt got to the league... He's like the 8th grader who shows up at a 5th grade pick up game...

If you are a Western Conference team, you have too consider Mara.... Dallas, GS,... if he gets to 12, you have t believe OKC will jump on him. They could use him tonight.
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All you have to do is look at what guys like Edey and Clingan have done for a blueprint for Mara. Both were thought of as outdated relics but they are so big and combine that with high IQ play to be pretty impact full players.
 
#409      
Birdus
the juiceman cometh said:
1. Surprised the BH hate still is a thing after the season he had. Morez did leave because of some Benjamins, but Ben Humrichous was not one of them.

2. The difference in avg mpg between freshman Morez and UM Morez was 7.5. With us he averaged 5.7 fouls per 40 minutes. That's a foul every 7 minutes. With UM he brought that down to 3.7 per 40. That's where the minutes difference comes from, not from BH playing.

3. Hard to imagine we pursue Mirk if we already have Morez for that role, harder to imagine Mirk comes here to back up Morez. Don't remember the timeline exactly but my recollection is that Mirk was more or less a direct result of Morez leaving and us needing to find a replacement.
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Morez DID struggle here with fouls. The hand injury also set him back. He will be a good NBA player. I think it worked out for everyone. His time here was very productive and he built on that at Michigan. Good luck to him. No animosity with the exception that he went to SCUM!
 
#410      
Birdus
altgeld88 said:
I'm confused; is Fears the cat or the girl in this scenario?

The case for "girl": flopping and not ready for prime time; appealing immediately to the unseen official for a quick whistle.

The case for "cat": General first-class D-baggery. Though in the cat's defense, it didn't apply a sharp elbow to her neck or a donkey-kick in the groin. His premeditated tripping of her is positively sportsmanlike.

I can't wait to enjoy another season of deeply misunderstood Fears (and Izzo) enduring the outrageous slings and arrows of Big Ten fortune.
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Ah, what would life be without IZZO?
 
#411      
Birdus
Emerson Bigguns said:
Yeah, I think anyone who has watched the Spurs in the playoffs is asking themselves what they are going to do with this guy for the next 10 years... You certainly can't just let him catch lobs all day. Mara's ascension on the draft boards probably has more to do with his measurements than anything they saw on tape.

Mara is super tall, moves reasonably well, and can get his hands really high in the air. If you are going to win big in the next several years you're going to need a guy like that, and there just aren't very many.

Big Z's chances of of making the NBA have also increased during this playoffs, even if his role is a guy that sits on the bench until the Spurs roll into town... You're going to need a guy who is well over 7 feet and can move to even make Wemby think about how he is being guarded.

This must be how people felt when Wilt got to the league... He's like the 8th grader who shows up at a 5th grade pick up game...

If you are a Western Conference team, you have too consider Mara.... Dallas, GS,... if he gets to 12, you have t believe OKC will jump on him. They could use him tonight.
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Mara reminds me more of Clingan. The length, mobility and passing. They are both large men. Uncanny ability to alter and block shots. Mara will have a good NBA career.
 
#412      
Emerson Bigguns
aveseaboy said:
Boswell to Nola yes please
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As nice of a moment as it would be for Bam to get drafted, if it isn't to a bad team like NOLA, he might be better off as a free agent. There is a lot to be said about choosing your situation. He's a better player than his recent tape suggests, but he's going to need opportunities to show it. Getting picked by guard rich teams like the Spurs, Timberwolves, or even the Bulls (who have like a dozen PGs and not much else), will be a one way ticket to the G-League.
 
#413      
mysterio2525
the juiceman cometh said:
1. Surprised the BH hate still is a thing after the season he had. Morez did leave because of some Benjamins, but Ben Humrichous was not one of them.

2. The difference in avg mpg between freshman Morez and UM Morez was 7.5. With us he averaged 5.7 fouls per 40 minutes. That's a foul every 7 minutes. With UM he brought that down to 3.7 per 40. That's where the minutes difference comes from, not from BH playing.

3. Hard to imagine we pursue Mirk if we already have Morez for that role, harder to imagine Mirk comes here to back up Morez. Don't remember the timeline exactly but my recollection is that Mirk was more or less a direct result of Morez leaving and us needing to find a replacement.
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1. it's not hate but it's what happened. he played more than he should have and it cost us. he played the perfect amount this year and thought he was great in his role..... did I have animosity at the fact that he was getting that much tick in year 1... absolutely. but that's more geared to the coaching staff for not seeing that playing time needed to be adjusted

2. no argument, morez was not a good defender and fouled too much as a freshman. he took a big leap his second year but isn't that the expected for super talented recruits. give them playing time and a little experience and they take big leap

3. I agree with you that it's much less likely but we are playing in hypotheticals right now so I was taking the scenario to the other extreme to make a point nobody really knows what could have been.... expect maybe the watchers from the MCU
 
#414      
Fly Illini Fly!
https://twitter.com/x/status/2057087894603370935

Round 1 - Pick 5; Keaton Wagler

“Wagler is a special shooter. The 6-foot-6 point guard has a clean, repeatable, gorgeous strap from downtown, and it's easy to see why this fit would tantalize the Clippers. If they keep this pick, Wagler is the no-brainer choice. Wagler's shooting prowess allows him to play off the ball when it's time for Darius Garland or Kawhi Leonard to rock, but his value skyrockets because he has all the tools to toggle to an on-ball role as well. Wagler isn't a blow-you-away athlete, but his underrated strength, rhythm, balance and body control make him such a tough cover. Wagler is programmed to make the right play over and over again. He rebounds well for his position, including getting after it on the offensive glass. He has the length and IQ to be a useful defender down the road, which unlocks some Derrick White-like outcomes in his projection, with room for even more.”
 
#416      
RollChief
mysterio2525 said:
1. it's not hate but it's what happened. he played more than he should have and it cost us.
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Honestly if we’re talking hindsight from 2024-2025, the fact that we did as well as we did and finished as a top 20 KP team is pretty nuts considering we turned over the entire roster. I’m not sure of many other teams that could have done that considering the relatively limited NIL pool for that year, compared to other top programs. Staff and players had to figure out roles in essentially no time.

With that said, I still trust the staff that they were playing BH for what they were seeing outside of just in-game play, as they had many more data points and other nuance to work from and game plan for other than what we were seeing twice a week in games.
 
#418      
Calvin
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Round 1 - Pick 5; Keaton Wagler

“Wagler is a special shooter. The 6-foot-6 point guard has a clean, repeatable, gorgeous strap from downtown, and it's easy to see why this fit would tantalize the Clippers. If they keep this pick, Wagler is the no-brainer choice. Wagler's shooting prowess allows him to play off the ball when it's time for Darius Garland or Kawhi Leonard to rock, but his value skyrockets because he has all the tools to toggle to an on-ball role as well. Wagler isn't a blow-you-away athlete, but his underrated strength, rhythm, balance and body control make him such a tough cover. Wagler is programmed to make the right play over and over again. He rebounds well for his position, including getting after it on the offensive glass. He has the length and IQ to be a useful defender down the road, which unlocks some Derrick White-like outcomes in his projection, with room for even more.”
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I think his athleticism is under-rated because he doesn't have the explosiveness that often blows people away in highlight clips. But to me, things like hand eye coordination, accuracy shooting (especially when moving), body control (especially to avoid injuries in a sport where you hit the deck frequently), and other aspects of coordination are all athleticism in my book, and he has those at a very high level. And some of the things he lacks will come with development. He's still really young.
 
#419      
altgeld88
Birdus said:
Ah, what would life be without IZZO?
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We'll find out soon enough. For my part, I'll miss the vestigal gestures of his mentor, Jud Heathcote, particularly the grotesquely contorted visage as he whines to the refs.

Gotta hand it to them: Sparty has had a solid 50-year run on the hardwood. No one else in the conference comes close. We'll see what happens when the troll exits stage left.

1779305630531.png
 
#420      
Frank
ChiefGritty said:
Mara is not Wemby now and he won't be Wemby in the future.

HAVING SAID THAT, what teams are seeing in terms of what that combination of extremely tall rim protection on one end and a high skill level unusual for a 7-footer on the other end can do the physics and the strategy of basketball makes Mara a very appealing prospect.

Really wanted him for the Bulls but 4 is too high and he's never lasting to 15.
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Imo, it's less about seeing what Wemby can do and wanting to find a cheap replicate and more about realizing that in order to win a title you'll need somebody that can do at least a half-decent job defending the guy. Whether or not the Spurs win it all this year, it's clear (barring injury) that he's going to be a major obstacle (perhaps the biggest) every year for the foreseeable future. This is why I think Mara's absolute floor is the #12 pick to OKC. They have been bludgeoned into the realization that they have nobody to contend with Wemby. Mara gives you a shot of being able to combat his length with nearly equal length (albeit without Wemby's freakish agility at that size). At this point though I don't think he even makes it to #12. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see OKC cash in some assets to move up and get him. They have a glut of guards. A big like Mara could change their outlook in this new alien race of a West.
 
#422      
Emerson Bigguns
Calvin said:
I think his athleticism is under-rated because he doesn't have the explosiveness that often blows people away in highlight clips. But to me, things like hand eye coordination, accuracy shooting (especially when moving), body control (especially to avoid injuries in a sport where you hit the deck frequently), and other aspects of coordination are all athleticism in my book, and he has those at a very high level. And some of the things he lacks will come with development. He's still really young.
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Some players succeed because they are explosive athletes, but if you aren't in the top 5% in that regard it's mitigated to a large degree in the NBA. The guys who are tough to guard know how to manipulate defenders and get them off-balance, get to their spots, and knock down shots. Keaton has a tremendous feel for the position of a defender, and has a bunch of well developed moves to counter however they choose to attack him.

Looking back on his short career at Illinois, the most remarkable thing was how quickly he adjusted, not only to the speed and athleticism at this level, but also as he emerged at the top of the scouting report. He is just a tough kid to frustrate. He seems to see things before they happen, like many of the greats. It's a really tough thing to quantify, but he just makes the right play with a frequency few guys his age have been able to match.

To me, lack of strength is a bigger issue than run and jump stuff. He's going to have to be able to play through contact, but strength is probably the easiest thing for a 19 year old to gain in the relative short-term. His ability to knock down shots will translate immediately, even if some of the other stuff lags while his body develops.
 
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