NIT Final Four or NCAA First Four?

NIT Final Four or NCAA First Four in Dayton

  • NIT Final Four at the Garden

    Votes: 16 18.2%

  • NCAA First Four in Dayton

    Votes: 62 70.5%

  • It depends on how the program is trending

    Votes: 10 11.4%
  • Total voters
    88
#1      

redwingillini11

redwingillini11
White and Sixth
North Aurora
redwingillini11
Not trying to jump the gun here, just asking:

Which would you feel better about / enjoy more, your team (like Illinois) making a run in the NIT to Madison Square Garden, or the team losing in the First Four in Dayton?

In all honesty I think it depends on what direction the program is trending, but I can definitely see the upside to an NIT Final Four. It's still teams playing pretty good ball on one of the greatest stages in sports. Now, ask me next year and I will definitely want to see the boys at least in Dayton.
 
#3      

Ransom Stoddard

Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
Ransom Stoddard
For program development you want to play as many games as you can. Losing to another 11/12 seed in Dayton doesn't do much for your kids. Beating several teams in a row in the post-season is a good way to continue to measure progress and coach up your boys.
 
#4      

Deleted member 8213

D
Guest
Deleted member 8213
Its definitely more fun for the fans to keep playing to Madison Square Garden and get to see the the team and the players more, argue about the games, whatever. That said, the goal should always be NCAA or bust.
 
#5      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
I have never experienced either.

My sense is that losing in the First Four would really, really suck. It's such a hollow thing to be in the tournament in some technical sense but clearly not in any real sense.

I would imagine that winning the NIT, if you're in a situation where you weren't right on the bubble and failure to make the NCAA's doesn't represent some massive failure, and you've got a young team and a newish coaching administration (think Georgia Tech this year), would probably be a lot more fun than getting dumped in the First Four. That's just a guess coming from someone who really hates and takes a jaundiced eye towards the First Four generally. It shouldn't exist.
 
#6      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
The NIT Final Four has little value, unless you actually win the tournament. So the way it is phrased, losing in the first four out is dominant outcome. Not even debatable IMO. Now, if you say "Winning the NIT" vs. "Losing in the First Four", I think that would be a more valid question. It is debatable, winning the NIT, not just making the NIT F4, has some value. Not a bad accomplishment.
 
#7      

illiguy85

illiguy85
illiguy85
Are we being serious with even asking this question? NCAA and it's not even close.
 
#10      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
jcgoldie said:
I disagree. You are in or you are out.
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The NCAA tournament is the thing that everyone stops working to watch on Thursday and Friday, and for which everyone fills out 64-team brackets.

The games on Tuesday and Wednesday create no national interest and don't really matter, and exist only as an experiment in lining the pockets of the arrogant, immoral, fan-hating bureaucrats who run the sport. If that's the conclusion of your participation, you were not in the NCAA tournament. You ARE out.

Just one guy's hot take. I understand that there's a chronologically reversed view in which you succeeded in the contest of "the bubble", which is another well-established highly publicized thing that has meaning and emotional resonance to fans. That's a fine counterargument.

The distance created between those two ideas by the First Four is cruel and stupid, that's my ultimate conviction here.
 
#11      

Adnarel

A
Adnarel
Noting that the existence of the last four really puzzles me, I still find this question to be really easy to answer. One can result in your team dancing, the other can't.
 
#13      

Deleted member 8213

D
Guest
Deleted member 8213
Second and Chalmers said:
The NCAA tournament is the thing that everyone stops working to watch on Thursday and Friday, and for which everyone fills out 64-team brackets.
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I mean it was 8 then 16 then 20 something then 32 then 48 then 64 then 65 now 68... if it went to 96 or 128 and they played the 1st rd on monday should we ignore it until we get to 64 later in the week? Just seems arbitrary to me to call the tournament anything other than all the teams in the bracket.
 
#14      

JIllini

J
JIllini
You're kidding yourself if you think getting blown out in the First Four is more fun than an NIT title run. That being said, NCAA is always better for the program.
 
#16      

KnoxIllini2

KnoxIllini2
KnoxIllini2
If you have a chance to be in the NCAA you have a chance at the national title. If a team comes from the First Four it's that much more impressive.
 
#17      

Adnarel

A
Adnarel
Second and Chalmers said:
The hypothetical here is having already lost in the First Four.

Obviously you'll always take a chance at a tourney berth over any other option.
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Oh, I see. Reading Comprehension 101 cadet here.

The real question here is "do you appreciate being shown respect by the committee or would you rather have more postgame opportunities in a less prestigious tournament?"

Gonna have to change my answer to door #3 here. I'm not comfortable issuing a blanket statement.
 
#18      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
KnoxIllini2 said:
If you have a chance to be in the NCAA you have a chance at the national title. If a team comes from the First Four it's that much more impressive.
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I think you need to read the question posed on the first post more carefully. :)
 
#19      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
jcgoldie said:
Just seems arbitrary to me to call the tournament anything other than all the teams in the bracket.
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But they aren't in the bracket. No one makes you submit your bracket until Thursday when the real games start. You know the identity of the First Four winners when submitting your picks.

If the format changed to 128, you'd submit a 128 team bracket on Tuesday or whenever.

When they originally came up with this First Four concept, I was yelling that the sky was falling because this was going to kill bracket pools. I was wrong. Instead, it has just been totally ignored. The NCAA tournament is weaker for it, but not in some big, noticeable way. The bubble no longer maps onto the actual tournament in an exact way, and the comically arrogant and short-sighted failed experiment with the "Second/Third Round" naming convention for the first weekend has left coaching resumes on Wikipedia and elsewhere utterly indecipherable (yes, I realize I care about that at the 99.9% percentile of college basketball fans), but it is still fundamentally healthy because it is still the 64-team bracketed gambling event starting with the basketball orgy of the first weekend that makes it such a marketable property.
 
#20      

Deleted member 8213

D
Guest
Deleted member 8213
Second and Chalmers said:
When they originally came up with this First Four concept, I was yelling that the sky was falling because this was going to kill bracket pools. I was wrong. Instead, it has just been totally ignored. The NCAA tournament is weaker for it, but not in some big, noticeable way. The bubble no longer maps onto the actual tournament in an exact way, and the comically arrogant and short-sighted failed experiment with the "Second/Third Round" naming convention for the first weekend has left coaching resumes on Wikipedia and elsewhere utterly indecipherable (yes, I realize I care about that at the 99.9% percentile of college basketball fans), but it is still fundamentally healthy because it is still the 64-team bracketed gambling event starting with the basketball orgy of the first weekend that makes it such a marketable property.
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I get it but it seems like a rather limited way to define the NCAA tournament especially from the perspective of college basketball teams themselves. Filling out your paper bracket may be all the NCAA tournament means to a lot of casual fans, but I don't think thats what it means at all to a lot of folks here let alone coaches or players, etc.
 
#21      

Golfer63

G
Golfer63
Here's another interesting question: If we do go on to win the NIT, do we hang a banner in SFC for it to recognize the team, particularly the seniors, for what they accomplished amidst some trying circumstances, or do we not hang a banner to honor the tradition of our program and stand by our standard of the NIT being unacceptable at the University of Illinois?
 
#23      

redwingillini11

redwingillini11
White and Sixth
North Aurora
redwingillini11
Golfer63 said:
Here's another interesting question: If we do go on to win the NIT, do we hang a banner in SFC for it to recognize the team, particularly the seniors, for what they accomplished amidst some trying circumstances, or do we not hang a banner to honor the tradition of our program and stand by our standard of the NIT being unacceptable at the University of Illinois?
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I would vote for definitely hang the banner. It's certainly not prestigious as a Final Four banner, but its a little accomplishment that the team would be proud of. Throw them a bone!
 
#24      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
KnoxIllini2 said:
Touche. :) But even with a loss you still had the chance.
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Yes, but then the question would deduce to whether you would rather be selected in the NCAA First Four game or be selected in the NIT. That would not even be a question.

I think the more interesting question, way more interesting than even the one actually posed is:


Which one would you prefer:

A. Losing in the NCAA First Four game

OR

B. Winning the NIT