North Carolina Academic Fraud Investigation

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#351      

Botb9

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Botb9
Second and Chalmers said:
Their accreditation agency gave the University one year of probation, which is the first time I've heard of the academic folks even making a peep about an athletics thing. That's separate from the NCAA investigation.

The trouble with the accrediting bodies as a policeman in these situations (despite theoretically making much more sense than the NCAA in that role) is that they basically are forced into a death-penalty-or-nothing punishment structure. The only force they carry is the ability to yank federal student loan eligibility for a period of time, which would essentially shut down the entire University. That would never be appropriate for something like this, yet that's the only stick they really carry.
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Isn't it also true that yanking accreditation would invalidate degrees from that institution?

Edit: looked it up and it's more of an informal thing. Since people know what UNC is, they might let it slide, but the real blow here would be the lack of funding. Having a degree from UNC might mean you have to prove what years you went there with transcripts and whatnot so they know you were during a time when it was accredited.
 
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#352      

Second and Chalmers

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Second and Chalmers
Botb9 said:
Isn't it also true that yanking accreditation would invalidate degrees from that institution?
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Not sure how things would apply retroactively. It's not like they would yank federal funding forever, even in the doomsday scenario, UNC still stands head and shoulders above most of the institutions that body accredits.

Kind of an interesting sidenote that the accreditation for all these massive, billion dollar enterprises is held in the hands of these small, regional, non-governmental bodies.
 
#353      

Botb9

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Botb9
Second and Chalmers said:
Not sure how things would apply retroactively. It's not like they would yank federal funding forever, even in the doomsday scenario, UNC still stands head and shoulders above most of the institutions that body accredits.

Kind of an interesting sidenote that the accreditation for all these massive, billion dollar enterprises is held in the hands of these small, regional, non-governmental bodies.
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If the NCAA had the kind of financial capability that the government had to yank away, it would be able to police compliance better.

But then, if they did, they would be able to just pay players as well.
 
#354      

Bomb Squad 217

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Bomb Squad 217
What if they just shut down the college that degree is earned from? Or maybe just that whole degree. And as unfortunate as it may be for any "innocent" person who has obtained one, completely discredit that degree and make their degrees nullified. If possible.
 
#355      

Bomb Squad 217

B
Bomb Squad 217
WizardBill said:
The mess that creates is, if you were a student who paid for a degree that becomes invalidated, do you get your tuition back?
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I could agree with that argument as well, and they probably should. It would have been the university's fault and they deserve the punishment.
 
#356      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
Bomb Squad 217 said:
What if they just shut down the college that degree is earned from? Or maybe just that whole degree. And as unfortunate as it may be for any "innocent" person who has obtained one, completely discredit that degree and make their degrees nullified. If possible.
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Accreditors don't have a line-item veto that way.
 
#357      

DeeBrownComeBack

D
Champaign
DeeBrownComeBack
I wish people would stop acting like the students were "victims" here. Anyone in that major knew exactly what they were doing. It's not like the administrators and professors in a "paper class" were tricking the students into thinking they were performing at a college level.

Is it good that it happened? No. But to act like the athletes and other students who were in the major were victims is absurd.
 
#358      

whovous

W
Washington, DC
whovous
They were kids. Their professors told them this was how things worked in this department. It is not unreasonable for at least some of them to have believed those august individuals.
 
#359      

FeelYourPaign

FeelYourPaign
So Cal
FeelYourPaign
DeeBrownComeBack said:
I wish people would stop acting like the students were "victims" here. Anyone in that major knew exactly what they were doing. It's not like the administrators and professors in a "paper class" were tricking the students into thinking they were performing at a college level.

Is it good that it happened? No. But to act like the athletes and other students who were in the major were victims is absurd.
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That's how I feel too. I took about 40 classes to get my degree. Do you think it would have escaped my notice if 1 of them never met, expected nothing of me and gave me a fine grade? No, it would not. This is on all of them. Whether you think it is a big deal or a little deal, it is amazing that hundreds and thousands of students participated in this fraud without anyone knowing for more than a decade. They were very willing victims, if they were victims. Isn't this the state that the brer rabbit came from?
 
#360      

Illwinsagain

Illwinsagain
Cary, IL
Illwinsagain
In light of the Louisville Scandal, curious question. It was mentioned that whether or not the coach was aware of the trangressions, he is still liable. Why does Roy still have a job?
 
#363      

Greensboro

Greensboro
Greensboro
DeeBrownComeBack said:
I wish people would stop acting like the students were "victims" here. Anyone in that major knew exactly what they were doing. It's not like the administrators and professors in a "paper class" were tricking the students into thinking they were performing at a college level.

Is it good that it happened? No. But to act like the athletes and other students who were in the major were victims is absurd.
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My son is at UNC. His story is that a bunch of the fraternities figured it out & some students took so many classes that they ended up getting a minor in African American Studies. They knew it was bogus & if you were dumb enough not to figure it out you were wasting your parent's money in college to begin with.
 
#364      

FeelYourPaign

FeelYourPaign
So Cal
FeelYourPaign
So.
This thread started on June 6, 2014.
How unrealistic am I to think that the NC2A could have done something by now?
 
#365      

Bomb Squad 217

B
Bomb Squad 217
FeelYourPaign said:
So.
This thread started on June 6, 2014.
How unrealistic am I to think that the NC2A could have done something by now?
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When everyone who works there probably went to UNC and some of which may even have said phony degree, they may be pressed to stall as long as possible.
 
#366      

Calvin

C
Calvin
FeelYourPaign said:
So.
This thread started on June 6, 2014.
How unrealistic am I to think that the NC2A could have done something by now?
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NC has a good team this year. They'll take the post-season bans when it's more convenient.
 
#368      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
miketherevelator said:
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article43622670.html

NC media keeping their foot on the gas on this. NCAA will have to do something soon if they keep doing that.
Or, you'd think so anyway.
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Two things stood out to me wrt to the ncaa, and nothing happening. 1) the NCAA already stated they do not have the power to regulate classes and 2) since no athletes are involved, the NCAA can wash their hands of this and not call it impermissible benefits, although they originally questioned that premise.

I would not hold my breath in the NCAA doing anything about this situation. They will simply ride out the storm until it is forgotten, then hammer a lesser school for something relatively innocuous. :eek:
 
#369      

TeamworkOrange

TeamworkOrange
Chicago
TeamworkOrange
IlliniJim20 said:
Two things stood out to me wrt to the ncaa, and nothing happening. 1) the NCAA already stated they do not have the power to regulate classes and 2) since no athletes are involved, the NCAA can wash their hands of this and not call it impermissible benefits, although they originally questioned that premise.

I would not hold my breath in the NCAA doing anything about this situation. They will simply ride out the storm until it is forgotten, then hammer a lesser school for something relatively innocuous. :eek:
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Yep, the NCAA already tried to sweep this under the rug once by stating it was an academic issue since regular students were involved. It didn't seem to matter to them that the bogus classes affected the eligibility of athletes. That was their excuse anyways...

If one were to assume the NCAA was a legit organization trying to keep a level playing field for all, it exposed a dangerous loophole. If you want to cheat, then involve regular students in the situation, and you're athletic department won't be affected. UK had already exploited the loophole by building a small luxury dorm for their basketball players. Fifty percent (or more) of the residents are supposedly regular students, but I'm sure the NCAA isn't checking to see if their parents are big school donors. We're not talking about a regular size dorm, but a small luxury one. I'm not surprised that Kansas recently followed suit and built their own brand new luxury dorm for the basketball team (complete with regular students).

There are just too much evidence that the NCAA is a corrupt organization. The NCAA had already washed their hands of the UNC scandal until the media forced them back into it. If the NCAA leaves UNC alone all season and they somehow win the championship, I think the pressure from other schools, fans, media, and lawmakers could possibly be the breaking point of the NCAA. It wouldn't surprise me if the NCAA is stupid enough to cut their own throats given how they've handled the situation so far.
 
#374      

Bomb Squad 217

B
Bomb Squad 217
So there's a statute for the older cases of course. But does that mean this can't pursued by people who fall into the statute time frame? I don't see why not.
 
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