North Carolina Academic Fraud Investigation

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#476      

BlindLoyalty

B
FartNoiseMotivation
BlindLoyalty
Second and Chalmers said:
On the other hand the percentage of Power Five revenue sport athletes who would gain admission, even to LAS, at U of I were it not for their athletic prowess is probably in the single digits, and that's nothing to be ashamed of.
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UI Freshman Profile 2015 (Middle 50% of Fr. Admitted)


College of Business

ACT Score: 28-32
High School Class Rank: 88-97%


College of Liberal Arts & Sciences

ACT Score: 27-32
High School Class Rank: 85-97%


College of Engineering

ACT Score: 31-34
High School Class Rank: 92-99%
 
#477      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
BlindLoyalty said:
UI Freshman Profile 2015 (Middle 50% of Fr. Admitted)


College of Business

ACT Score: 28-32
High School Class Rank: 88-97%


College of Liberal Arts & Sciences

ACT Score: 27-32
High School Class Rank: 85-97%


College of Engineering

ACT Score: 31-34
High School Class Rank: 92-99%
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And nationally ACT's from 27-34 would be the 87th to the 99th percentile.

So we're talking at least top 15% academically (probably quite a bit higher given the competitiveness of many high schools and the non-universality of ACT/SAT exams) and much higher, probably top 5% or more athletically. And they aren't really correlated. You don't reach either of those levels on just grit and hard work, it takes real god-given talent. Someone capable of both is a mighty rare bird.
 
#478      

whovous

W
Washington, DC
whovous
Do we have any similar statistics concerning the academic rank of scholarship athletes at UoI?
 
#481      

EllderIlliniFan

EllderIlliniFan
EllderIlliniFan
Second and Chalmers said:
Absolutely not. The NCAA doesn't want that comparison being made, and it's easy to understand why.
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This makes my point completely. The gap between the academic program that is required for most students and what is required for the elite athlete continues to grow. Thus the idea of a student athlete is a fond memory. They should remove the charades and compensate the elite athlete. Recognize the minimal academic requirements and offer a more rigorous program after graduation if desired.
 
#485      

IntenselyOrange

I
IntenselyOrange
WizardBill said:
The difference between the other athletes and the money sports of basketball and football are that most of the time, the competition in HS and even middle school is much more difficult. These kids from a very young age play basketball. That is what they do. That is their livelihood. These athletes have quite a bit more competition than other sports. My daughter was a 4x state champion in gymnastics. The work was brutal. She trained daily. But, there were not thousands she had to best.

There are SO many talented big money sport athletes competing for the limited roster spots. The competition is way more intense than it is for other sports.

I am not claiming that the athlete does not work as hard with classes, travel, etc, I am just saying that the number of student athletes creates a much higher difficulty in qualifying for the money sports.
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This might explain why they cannot meet the admittance standards of the general population. However, this in no way explains their inability to show up for classes and complete their own projects. This in no way explains why they need sham classes. Most Universities have remedial classes that are open to the general student body. They can take those and build their way up to real classes.

I'm also skeptical of your assertion that because there is more competition at the HS level, basketball and football players can't learn to read. It's almost certainly a socio-economic issue, but that's an issue for another thread.
 
#487      

ILL_INI

ILL_INI
ILL_INI
Adnarel said:
Peripherally related: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...ves-anti-discrimination-process-event-bidding

If anything makes North Carolina scrap that law, it'd be something like this. =P
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Politics are within their jurisdiction, but sham classes taken predominantly by "student"-athletes are not. I read a column not too long ago stating how the NCAA's purpose has shifted from enforcement to marketing with the increasing rights fees paid for the men's basketball tournament. There is absolutely zero interest in punishing on of its most marketable teams.
 
#488      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
ILL_INI said:
Politics are within their jurisdiction, but sham classes taken predominantly by "student"-athletes are not.
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The NCAA can't punish the state of North Carolina, so "jurisdiction" is the wrong word.

The NCAA is just doing the bidding of its corporate sponsors here, whose entire marketing and branding operations are based in a sort of blithe, meaningless inclusiveness. Being associated with thorny political questions is not good for the bottom line.

As an aside, if anything really ever happens on player compensation, it will most likely happen via the same mechanism.
 
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#489      

ILL in IA

ILL in IA
Iowa City
ILL in IA
Second and Chalmers said:
Report it to who? The University administration?

There's no "our classes are too easy" reporting structure in the NCAA. Like I said before, there are plenty of West Coast DIII liberal art schools where you like grow a flower and talk to it for class credit. That's not the NCAA's problem.
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You're right. Sorry. I thought I was in the Academic Fraud investigation thread.
 
#490      

ILL_INI

ILL_INI
ILL_INI
Second and Chalmers said:
The NCAA can't punish the state of North Carolina, so "jurisdiction" is the wrong word.
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It might not be the best word, but this is clearly a threat by the NCAA to punish/sanction the state of North Carolina. Yet, the NCAA will let a blue blood's academic crimes go scot-free.

Second and Chalmers said:
The NCAA is just doing the bidding of its corporate sponsors here, whose entire marketing and branding operations are based in a sort of blithe, meaningless inclusiveness. Being associated with thorny political questions is not good for the bottom line..
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This could very well be true.
 
#491      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
ILL_INI said:
It might not be the best word, but this is clearly a threat by the NCAA to punish/sanction the state of North Carolina. Yet, the NCAA will let a blue blood's academic crimes go scot-free.
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You want college sports to be something it is not and never has been. Sorry to break it to you.
 
#492      

ILL_INI

ILL_INI
ILL_INI
Second and Chalmers said:
You want college sports to be something it is not and never has been. Sorry to break it to you.
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I'm not sure how you've decided what I want college sports to be, or how you think you've broken anything to me. (Sorry to burst your bubble.) I was just pointing out another instance of the NCAA overreaching in one circumstance while protecting its financial interests in another.

Second and Chalmers said:
If the University itself is in on it, you're stepping outside the NCAA's jurisdiction. Who is the NCAA to tell UNC the institution that they can't set up A's for no work sham classes? If UNC (more broadly, the State of North Carolina) wants to give out worthless degrees, that's pretty well their prerogative.
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Did you not write this? Does the NCAA have more of a right to punish a state for its bathroom laws than to punish a member for sham classes? Obviously, the NCAA thinks so.
 
#493      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
ILL_INI said:
Did you not write this? Does the NCAA have more of a right to punish a state for its bathroom laws than to punish a member for sham classes? Obviously, the NCAA thinks so.
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Choosing not to do a business deal with somebody is not a "punishment". You're comparing apples to oranges.
 
#494      

ILL_INI

ILL_INI
ILL_INI
Second and Chalmers said:
Choosing not to do a business deal with somebody is not a "punishment". You're comparing apples to oranges.
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Well, it depends on the reason for not "doing business," which I put in quotes because the cities don't pay the NCAA to host the games.

Punishment: The infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense

Oxford Dictionaries
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North Carolina passed a law to which the NCAA objects. In response, the NCAA is threatening to move the events scheduled to be held in North Carolina. How does this not meet the definition? At best, you can claim that they are threatening a punishment, not implementing one.

This really isn't much different than withholding allowance.
 
#495      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
ILL_INI said:
Well, it depends on the reason for not "doing business," which I put in quotes because the cities don't pay the NCAA to host the games.
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The right to host the game IS the "payment". It's the consideration in exchange for which the NCAA extracts the ability to use the venue and market the event and so on. It's a business deal.

The biggest chunk of the money the NCAA makes off of the tournament is from the TV contract but they also make a ton off of branding and sponsorship opportunities, not to mention ticket sales to people of all political persuasions.

Does the NCAA give a damn about transgender rights? No more than they give a damn about the safety and welfare of the student-athletes who create their events, which is to say not even a little bit. But this controversy threatens their bottom line. Sponsors are leery and people may theoretically be less likely to want to travel to the games because of this.

They aren't "punishing" North Carolina for waffling on having them host any more than they "rewarded" them by choosing them as hosts in the first place. It's an arms-length business transaction with an entity outside the organization.
 
#496      

geneseo

G
geneseo
Second and Chalmers said:
Choosing not to do a business deal with somebody is not a "punishment". You're comparing apples to oranges.
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Maybe I didn't read enough posts to get the correct context, but I'd disagree with this. Choosing not to do business with an entity can be a very effective punishment.
 
#497      

geneseo

G
geneseo
BlindLoyalty said:
UI Freshman Profile 2015 (Middle 50% of Fr. Admitted)


College of Business

ACT Score: 28-32
High School Class Rank: 88-97%


College of Liberal Arts & Sciences

ACT Score: 27-32
High School Class Rank: 85-97%


College of Engineering

ACT Score: 31-34
High School Class Rank: 92-99%
Click to expand...

***** Reduce scores and class rank by substantial amounts if you "know someone."
 
#498      

illinoisportsfan

I
illinoisportsfan
Here is a good article that discusses the seriousness of this scandal:

UNC's academic scandal leaves professors, university in peril

For all those people saying that this kind of thing goes on all the time ...

Belle Wheelan can tell you. The president of the regional accrediting agency charged with approving North Carolina's academic credentials remains troubled.

In her 11 years as head of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission, she has never seen anything like it -- a school this prominent being put on probation by her organization.

"It was devastating, it really was," Wheelan said. "Everybody keeps saying this is an athletic issue. This is much more than an athletic issue."

and ...

For the Higher Learning Commission, there is no such case similar to North Carolina's in the last 40 years. That's as far as the commission's records reach according to a spokesman.

In that sense, the country's first public university is now, and forever, an outlier. It's not necessarily guilty, but not the same as it was. This historic probation has seen to it.
 
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