Northwestern 70, Illinois 66 OT Postgame

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#426      
RockfordIllini
Second place is 1st loser said:
I was at the game and I was as frustrated with Ben and BU as anyone. I was very critical.

A relatively poor night's sleep later, we have to realize that inserting Morez opens up a whole new set of problems at the point of his career.

Does he do a better job than Ben when it comes to not getting bully balled? Absolutely.

However:

1)As a freshman, he still makes a ton of mistakes, one being silly fouls. There is absolutely no way to know that he's able to play D straight up and not get slap happy.

2)You simply can't have him in the game, YET, because he's God awful from the foul stripe and he would have been a target whenever he touched it. Missed free throws are basically a turnover.

3)When Morez would have been stronger in the paint, when the ball swings you're asking an awfully big man to be guarding an uncomfortable distance away from the hoop. This can lead to a lot of wide open looks and blow bys.

4)We were in a scoring drought and needed some of those open looks to go down. We also need our guards to be able to get into the land and finish or draw a foul and get to the line. None of that happened. Don't think that Morez solves that.

Ben, KJ and WR all got exposed defensively. They all did. Ben is getting singled out because he was the guy who was 1 for 9. In OT, it was KJ being abused.

Do I think that Morez would have solved one problem? Yes. Do I think that we become weaker in the last two minutes of a game with him in there? Yes.

If he would have gone 2-6 from the foul stripe, people would have melted down that he shouldn't have been in the game and they would have been right.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Ben won't shoot that way again this year. If BU pulls him for missing shots, now you'll have a guy looking over his shoulder because he's afraid that misses result in benching. Can't have that either.

It's WAY too early in the year to be throwing guys under the bus when we knew, all off-season, that the start to this season was going to be challenging.
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Agree with all of this. For people saying Morez should have played he probably would have matched up on Martinelli.

Martinelli is so herky jerky and uses shot fakes so well, Morez likely fouls out in about 10 minutes guarding him. Then we are down to Ben or Booth spelling Tomi at the 5.
 
#427      
Second place is 1st loser
skyIdub said:
Lol...it's not panic time....this is freshman and transfers getting a crash course in B1G life on the road.

Every game is competitive, and every team is coming for the most successful B1G program of the last 5 years. We came out of the gate good for about 5-7 min....then relaxed.

We then let NW dictate the pace and physicality and made our offense look choppy and indecisive.

If Brad and the B1G didn't have their attention before, it sure as hell does now.

No Will Riley for a large portion of the second half is absolutely mind boggling. He was the most impactful scorer for the last 10 min. of the first half...nothing in the second.

I get BU loves Ben and has fallen in love with the 3pt barrage, so if that's your game plan in the B1G, you'd better be able to get guys like Ben tons of easy looks. I'm not so sure that's going to happen in the B1G. It sure as hell isn't going to be easy.

KJ's threes were insane off the bounce, step back fade away contested threes. Ben ain't gonna give you any of that.
Will Riley can. Ben is a static on the wing set shooter that requires wide open looks...and he bricked 99.9999999% of those he got last night.
Will's defense is also noticeably better than Ben even as a freshman.

It's going to be VERY interesting to see how this plays out with BU's rotation decisions.

Under no circumstances can you lose Morez Johnson next year because of Ben Humrichous playing time. Same for Will Riley if he needs another year before jumping to the NBA.

Get yer' popcorn ready! 🧡 :illinois:
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I have to disagree with this. Riley played 30 minutes yesterday and was great for 10, but was awful for 20.

33% shooting overall, 0% from three, 67% from the foul line, a ton of wild, out of control shots, picking up his dribble in terrible spots with the shot clock running down, which resulted in a bailout shot from someone else and getting abused physically on defense....all things that happen to freshmen, hurt our cause.

We have an issue there because White brings pretty much nothing, which I'm sure was unexpected when the year started. He's not getting brought up in all of this.

Putting the blame on Ben, when there were more than a handful of violators of bad play, is a bit of a cop out for the other guys.
 
#428      
Illiniguy2442
The biggest problem I saw is we don’t have anyone that can stop a great wing… Hum can’t do it obviously, and even Tre White gets blown past or out toughed.
 
#429      
SescIllini
We have had 3 higher level opponents (Alabama, Arkansas, NU). Comparing Tre White, BH, WR, and Morez in those games this is what the stats show. None have been dominant or consistent in those games, but Riley would be the most consistent and productive. Tre appears to be the least in those games, I'm surprised becaue of his experience at USC/Louisville. I think he just doesn't know where to fit in.

Between Ben and Morez, Ben has played in 98 minutes, scored 23 pts, 8 rebounds, had 8 fouls and shot 40% overall. Morez has played in 35 minutes, 16 points, 13 rebounds, 9 fouls and shot 78% overall. If you extrapolated Morez stats to the 98 minutes that Ben got in those 3 games it turns into 45 pts, 36 rebounds, 25 fouls. Even if Morez couldn't maintain that motor over time, the stats are pretty overwhelming in his favor. But he also fouls more frequently, to the point where he will foul out in 20 minutes of play.

My recommendation is to play Morez 20 minutes immediately, up from his 13 m/game. If he fouls out at 20 minutes, fine. Reduce BH minutes from 32/gm to closere to 25. TW is playing 17 minutes per game, I wouldn't reduce his time as it appear Riley is playing majority at the 3.
 
#430      
HensonHall71
OB positive said:
Morez is tough and I like how he plays but sometimes appears to be a little lost. He doesn't seem to be in the right position at times and needs to get better at moving to the open spaces to give our drivers an outlet. When he figures those things out to go along with his rebounding and defense he will be even more valuable on the floor.
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I hear you, but it’s better than Ben not being lost and just getting beat- we’re a better team with Morez on the floor, shot blocking and rebounding was sorely missed last night- he was our only player that had a positive +\- for a reason
 
#431      
BWA
LvilleILL said:
I would love if he did but I really don't see so with Ivisic and Morez both coming back along with Tre most likely
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Does this mean Ty sees himself as a power forward now?

Weird considering he was a point guard starting last year.

Truly positionless I fess.
 
#432      
Get yourself a new map
Unacceptable loss. We were bound to take some lumps with the freshman, etc, but you gotta lose it on the court. Can’t lose one from the bench, which is what happened last night. (Are we SURE Ben shouldn’t be playing 15 lbs heavier?? Like, what’s the point of him being this lean?)
I’ve been and remain very skeptical of this team’s athleticism and grit. My take away from the Arkansas game was that, while crisp offensively, we got outscored in the second half. It was the manner in which we got outscored that was concerning - we hit a bunch of jumpers and Arkansas scored in the paint a TON. As good as Tomi has been, he (and Rez) simply don’t punish the opponent enough when they get a good switch with a 6’2” guy on them in the post. If we aren’t getting fouls called when attacking the paint with our guards, we aren’t scoring easy buckets, period. And that is life on the road.
I have faith we’ll get our standard 8-2 at home, but find me 4 road wins from the 9 remaining chances. I am struggling to. Finishing behind Michigan, given the state of their program, would be straight up gross.
 
#433      
DeeIL89
This game was a prime example of a small margin game. The team had a couple of sequences to deliver that killer blow to close out the game and they whiff. Second half when we were up by 10 we had a couple of open looks in the corner and we didn't nailed those. We had Kylan's missed layup in transition that was heartbreaking, and then there was that sequence where Will Riley attacked that long close out from NW and instead of drawing a foul or trying to dunk it instead he tried a reverse in which I don't think the ball even touch rim. When you don't capitalized on those chances in that kind of game, you are letting the opposing team claw their way back in and that's what happened. Also, Brad's coaching decision was a factor as well. Lol. Overall, young team and all those missed chances are learning experiences that can be fixed.
 
#434      
SescIllini
The only silver lightning is it seems away victories will be difficult for all teams, just look at PSU wiping the floor with Purdue.
Going back to what Bill Self about the Big Ten, win all your games and 4 away games and you win the conference.
 
#435      
jhayton
This board is wild. From Daddy Brad to pitchforks in less than a week. Slow down, breathe and carry on. The B1G is a tough league. You can bet on taking just about everyone’s best shot every night. If the shots aren’t falling then it’s gonna be rough.

I believe this team will learn from this experience and be ready to play Tuesday.

Penn state happened last year. This too shall pass.
 
#436      
PasadenaIllini
jhayton said:
This board is wild. From Daddy Brad to pitchforks in less than a week. Slow down, breathe and carry on. The B1G is a tough league. You can bet on taking just about everyone’s best shot every night. If the shots aren’t falling then it’s gonna be rough.

I believe this team will learn from this experience and be ready to play Tuesday.

Penn state happened last year. This too shall pass.
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What's wild is hyperbole like this. There are no "pitchforks." I don't see a single person even approaching the claim that Brad's seat should be warm. Even wilder still, dismissing yesterday's loss as being due to "if the shots aren't falling."

What actually happened is that our coach effed up his management of yesterday's game leading to a really bad loss. At a program that competes for championships, such mismanagement is rightly called out and questioned, whether it's here or any other high level program.
 
#437      
Oracle21
The main problem with the team is that the freshmen are the most consistent players. We need far more out of the role players.

KJ
Boswell
Riley
Morez
Tomi

That needs to be the 5 that play the most. The only time I’d be hesitant to play Tomi/Morez together is if we run up against a good 3 point shooting team that can spread us out like Ole Miss. Otherwise Tomi/Morez is our best combo.

Perimeter of KJ/Boswell/Riley is fine. Just have to hope Boswell gives us more offense than he has.

Right now it feels like our individual pieces are more than the sum of the parts. KJ/Riley/Tomi are super talented players but team we wise we aren’t as good as we should be
 
#439      
BashCtIllini
BalloonsTheElephant said:
The only issue I have with this loss is that it might mean the difference between a B1G championship or none or a 3 seed vs. 4 seed in March.
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I don't see any Big Ten team that stands out as a great team. I don't think this is going to be a season where any team finishes with 2-4 losses. I think it will be a bit of a glut of teams at the top with 6-8 losses.
 
#441      
Illini in Italy
No offense intended, but if one is going to provide a critique, one should have bona fides in the field one is providing the critique on. Otherwise it is simply providing an uneducated opinion, and should be prefaced by "In my humble opinion".

(I use this statement with my very opinionated youngest son all the time 😉).
 
#442      
OrangeKrush1981
Illini in Italy said:
... close to 100% haven't got a freakin' clue (including me).
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Aww, don't sell yourself short! People have ideas, and viewpoints. Others often don't share them. It's easy to consign alternative viewpoints to the "haven't got a clue" category when in fact I feel like like no one I have met on this planet has ever had a clue. H. sapiens sapiens has a lot of trouble living up to its sapient entitling. So we just do our best, however poorly. :)
 
#445      
OrangeKrush1981
PasadenaIllini said:
What's wild is hyperbole like this. There are no "pitchforks." I don't see a single person even approaching the claim that Brad's seat should be warm. Even wilder still, dismissing yesterday's loss as being due to "if the shots aren't falling."

What actually happened is that our coach effed up his management of yesterday's game leading to a really bad loss. At a program that competes for championships, such mismanagement is rightly called out and questioned, whether it's here or any other high level program.
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I agree. Passionate criticism is not treason to Illini Nation. Maybe it is true that some of the criticism is too strong (not in my opinion), but I haven't read one thing yet (maybe I need to read more) that to my ears sounds ugly or unjustified.

People want to win. Good.
 
#446      
OrangeKrush1981
KingWolf11 said:
I think we get two years of Riley FWIW this draft is ridiculous. Going into next years draft at 19 with another year of Fletch is undoubtedly his best route IMO
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Selecting Riley in the first round next June is NOT dumb. It is adventurous though. I've seen FAR worse picks made. The kid can play. He's not remotely ready for the next level yet, though. It seems evident he will on-and-off struggle at the collegiate level, this year. But if a team invests early? Maybe that's smart. I'd love to have him back next year, if he decides to be back.
 
#447      
illinitiger
Missed game..but scanned team stats.

Illinitiger quick team stat compare takeaways:
overall even game stat wise except ..
-NW had 5 more shots
-NW caused 5 more turnovers against us
-NW got 6 more free throws.

These minor stat differentials will tip a game..as Northwestern proved on Friday
 
#449      
OrangeKrush1981
CoalCity said:
Absurd. We had TONS of open shots, Ben in particular. Smoked several layups. Lack of open shots was not the issue, making open shots was the issue.
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You are right we had some open shots. And some should have been made. That should have won the game.

Still, the powerhouse Illini squad we ran out on the floor last night should have been able to blow NW out. Not only didn't that happen (obviously), but because we did such a lousy job generating good shots, our guys were never going to be able to blow NW out last night. We stunk because we rarely ran effective offense. We can, and better, do better.
 
#450      
Oracle21
OrangeKrush1981 said:
Selecting Riley in the first round next June is NOT dumb. It is adventurous though. I've seen FAR worse picks made. The kid can play. He's not remotely ready for the next level yet, though. It seems evident he will on-and-off struggle at the collegiate level, this year. But if a team invests early? Maybe that's smart. I'd love to have him back next year, if he decides to be back.
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Will Riley reminds me alot of Emoni Bates. Bates played 2 years in college so it’s possible Riley comes back. But I suspect he’s going to go regardless. I think he’s on the Amani Bailey path to the NBA where it’s 1 year regardless of his college production. IL could certainly open the coffers to retain him tho
 
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