Northwestern 70, Illinois 66 OT Postgame

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#451      
OrangeKrush1981
Battle89 said:
I thought we were quicker than this.
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DGL and Morez are very athletic. Ivisic is remarkbly nimble on spin moves but not on lateral footwork. Other than the athleticism of those two guys, our defensive ability, such as it is, derives from our extraordinary length.
 
#452      
FloridaMan
OrangeKrush1981 said:
You are right we had some open shots. And some should have been made. That should have won the game.

Still, the powerhouse Illini squad we ran out on the floor last night should have been able to blow NW out. Not only didn't that happen (obviously), but because we did such a lousy job generating good shots, our guys were never going to be able to blow NW out last night. We stunk because we rarely ran effective offense. We can, and better, do better.
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Yep. BU loves the three. Obviously. I get that, and it is statistically the way to go in college basketball today. When you are on (such as against Arkansas) the offense looks great. When not (like against NW) not so much. Hopefully, the staff and team start to adjust - in game - to generate easier looks down low when they aren't falling. There will be more nights, likely on the road, where the threes are not falling. Will we accept that and keep chasing the one or two that may go in, or look to generate looks for Morez and Tomi inside the lane?
 
#453      
kyillinifan
Go on now and beat Wisc. We lost to NW last year in OT and ended up in the Elite 8. We are a young team that will still take time to jell.
 
#454      
illinitiger
OrangeKrush1981 said:
You are right we had some open shots. And some should have been made. That should have won the game.

Still, the powerhouse Illini squad we ran out on the floor last night should have been able to blow NW out. Not only didn't that happen (obviously), but because we did such a lousy job generating good shots, our guys were never going to be able to blow NW out last night. We stunk because we rarely ran effective offense. We can, and better, do better.
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If we made our 3s like past games we would be celebrating.

We were spoiled a little last year with high IQ domask and "get to FT line at will" Shannon.
 
#455      
OrangeKrush1981
Second place is 1st loser said:
That's not a "bad" loss. We were only 3 points favorites going in. A tight game was not unexpected outside of those living outside of reality. This is going to end up, at worst, a quad 2 loss. It stings because it was winnable and we were up 10 with ten minutes to go, but this won't be a red mark at year's end.

Of MUCH bigger concern is the reason we lost. There are most definitely areas of concern and for me, it's on the defensive end.
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I agree with all of this. I think we have a ton of offensive ability. A ton. But I also think that we do have very serious offensive shortcomings. We move the ball slowly. We run few plays. We are not quick nor physically-developed enough to play strong with the ball. We are also bizarrely careless with the ball at times (sometimes those are turnovers, sometimes we get the ball back but with a delay that screws up the offense and time on the clock).

This is a team that, in my view, has been constructed to out-score other teams rather than shut them down with strong defense. Relying on outscoring the other team as opposed to slowing them down with strong defense is not at all my style, but I can appreciate the beauty and cleverness of it. I suspect you feel something like I do about this -- though feel free to disagree!

Did I bury the lede again? Probably: what I meant was that I think we win this year by overcoming our defensive shortcomings with offensive firepower. So -- score, sumb*tches.
 
#456      
OrangeKrush1981
illinitiger said:
If we made our 3s like past games we would be celebrating.
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I get the sentiment. But I can assure you that I would have been (1) celebrating the win last night (had it happened, grrrr) and (2) been very, very concerned about the level of success that this year's squad might be able to achieve. From my perspective, our offensive scheme needs to be fixed.

Why am I so concerned? I'll tell you why: Coach Underwood wants to win championships. A national championship, too. That is what he says, often. I share his goal, as I have for decades as an Illini fan. Towards that end, this squad needs to grow quite a little bit. I want them to do that, I think they can. I want to cheer them on as they achieve glory.
 
#457      
JSpence
HailtotheChief said:
So your implying that BU made a mistake not putting the 185 lb freshman on the two 230 lb power forwards from NW. Well, I disagree and think BU sees these guys bang each other in practice and he put our best options on them defensively. They are bangers and tough to guard. We don't have a TSJ type guy on D anymore. Certainly Riley was not BUs choice for a reason
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Good grief, you still aren't on track. Riley got thirty minutes. He was one of BU's choices and was not a disaster. Ben got even more tick, at 39 minutes. Meanwhile, against these monstrous bangers you carry on about, Morez got 12 minutes.
 
#458      
OrangeKrush1981
EyeoftheIllini said:
This had the feeling of a game Brad was coaching more for later in the season than to absolutely get the win tonight. Seemed like he wanted to see how these guys handled adversity in a tight game. As much as we want to see the Illini win every game, a perfect season is always very unlikely. I’ll take this loss if it means growth for the team and a successful run in tournament.
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I have never seen a coach do this. Winning is everything.

But I haven't observed from the locker room or practice court all that many coaches in action, so maybe I'm unaware of this strategy and your observation is in fact golden.
 
#459      
biglug58
OrangeKrush1981 said:
DGL and Morez are very athletic. Ivisic is remarkbly nimble on spin moves but not on lateral footwork. Other than the athleticism of those two guys, our defensive ability, such as it is, derives from our extraordinary length.
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Season 3 Nbc GIF by The Office
 
#460      
WyattEarp
IllinistuckinGopherland said:
Totally understand the Ben frustration, but I think what hurt us was going up 10. I feel like BU and the team (and us) were waiting for that run, and completely relaxed after we got it. No need for adjustments, everything is fine now. And then they made everything down the stretch and it wasn’t.
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I have no idea if that truly was their mindset. But if so, that ain’t gonna get. Survey Says: SOFT.
 
#461      
Combo
OrangeKrush1981 said:
DGL and Morez are very athletic. Ivisic is remarkbly nimble on spin moves but not on lateral footwork. Other than the athleticism of those two guys, our defensive ability, such as it is, derives from our extraordinary length.
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I don’t see that at all. We are tall, but that’s not the same as being “long.” None of our starting 5 looks to have particularly long arms for their height. In fact Morez and Booth are the only guys and the roster that I’d describe as long.
 
#462      
80'sIllini
TheodoreRex said:
Look, I love Underwood and I'm extremely grateful for how he has built our program back to being respected and legit. But I think the run from last year masked some of the warts that Underwood still carries with him. It's not irrational to critique him, because he certainly has weaknesses. Here have been my issues with Underwood throughout his time here:
1) His out of timeout play calls have been awful. To the point I almost don't want to watch them because I know they won't work. I'm sure many times the players don't do what he wants but again, that falls on coaching. See lasts nights step back contested 3 out of the timeout as exhibit A.

2) Underwood rarely calls a timeout when our team needs one. He relies too much on the players figuring it out. I know we need players to lead but sometimes we need you to lead Underwood.

3) His stubbornness with analytics drives me absolutely crazy. Shoot 50 3's Underwood says... Let Ben shoot as many as he wants. Rarely ever critiques bad shot selection. Emphasizes that our d give up midrange jump shots all day long because they are "low percentage"- blah blah. But heres the problem, some players, like Martinelli thrive off midrange and their stats are different than the average team or player. You have to change your philosophy for those players. Also, sometimes a player is in his feels and hitting, again, you adjust accordingly. I think one of the flaws in his analytic approach is that he says, well said player shoots 20% from 3, so we are going to sag and letting rip. Ok, cool, I get it, BUT that player is likely shooting 20% because teams still guard him and contest shots. So that player is a 20% shooter with solid defense on him and contested shots. Said player will likely shoot better than 20% against us because he's a college basketball player that is left WIDE open and shockingly can shoot at a higher clip than 20%. AKA, why so many "BAD" shooters, shoot well against us.

Brad's a good coach, a good recruiter, and usually has a good eye for talent and is solid at getting the most out of players. But he DEFINITELY has flaws and if it wasn't for our run last year, I'd start to get a little annoyed by him.
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Totally agree with this take. We really only have 4 very good players( although Boswell has yet to be a decent perimeter shooter) and 2 players that can be decent for stretches( Morez and DGL) and I'd like to see Morez get more PT because I think he can become very effective on D and rebounding and even scoring down low. That's it. Ben, and Tre are just not good and have seen too little of Davis to have an opinion but he seems to passive and reluctant to look for his shot which is supposedly his strength. Overall, we are not a good shooting team and our inability to guard and athletic taller wing or slashing 4 is not gonna be fixable.
 
#464      
EyeoftheIllini
OrangeKrush1981 said:
I have never seen a coach do this. Winning is everything.

But I haven't observed from the locker room or practice court all that many coaches in action, so maybe I'm unaware of this strategy and your observation is in fact golden.
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I was a bit unclear. I didn’t mean Brad wasn’t trying to win. I think felt he was putting the guys out there that could win it, and it seems he feels those are the guys who will be the foundation for a potential deep tournament run. So rather than make some of the changes that many on this board felt should have been made, he was willing to stick with that foundation to see how they responded and give those players experience to learn what it takes to win in conference on the road. Unfortunately, the response wasn’t there to get the win. Hopefully that learning experience serves them well in future games down the road.
 
#465      
OB positive
Ok I have a question about a pivotal play in overtime. We were down by one and KJ got by his man and driving down the lane for what looked like an easy layup to take the lead. However the big goon Nicholsan came over and blocked it. No question about the block it was clean but he landed with one foot out of bounds and stepped back in and ended up with the ball in his hands. I would have thought they would wanted to take a look at that, but no reaction from the refs, our staff or the announcers. I thought that deserved another look to make sure that Nicholsan wasn't out of bounds while touching the ball.
 
#466      
Fly Illini Fly!
OB positive said:
Ok I have a question about a pivotal play in overtime. We were down by one and KJ got by his man and driving down the lane for what looked like an easy layup to take the lead. However the big goon Nicholsan came over and blocked it. No question about the block it was clean but he landed with one foot out of bounds and stepped back in and ended up with the ball in his hands. I would have thought they would wanted to take a look at that, but no reaction from the refs, our staff or the announcers. I thought that deserved another look to make sure that Nicholsan wasn't out of bounds while touching the ball.
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To me it looked like he established himself in after stepping out before touching the ball... But would've liked a closer look.

Also, just as a sidenote, Kylan was WIDE OPEN in that left corner. We had many opportunities... gotta execute the simple stuff though.
 
#468      
1970 John
I’ve wondered whether underwood gave the team a shot of Herb Brooks. Just like Brooks let the Olympic team lose a game to teach them a lesson, underwood may have let the team play their game and find out what happens.
 
#469      
APS iMBA
It's not just here, it's everywhere. I knew Northwestern would play tough, they nearly took down Iowa at Iowa this week but Iowa got lucky on a last second 3.
 
#470      
lstewart53x3
The fact that this thread has 29k views, but the postgame thread for our win against Northwestern in football to go 9-3 and have our best season 15 years has just 22k views tells you everything you need to know.
 
#471      
3in1
LvilleILL said:
A good bit of the roster will likely be back. Really bad loss though. We are the way better team. Not Brad's best coaching game as well. Learn from it and get both next week.
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The only person I see leaving for sure is KJ, that kid is going to be an NBA star. I doubt Will is going anywhere until he packs on the pounds. Could also see Tomi, Kylan, Morez, and Dra staying for another year at the very least.
 
#472      
IlliniFanTX
lstewart53x3 said:
The fact that this thread has 29k views, but the postgame thread for our win against Northwestern in football to go 9-3 and have our best season 15 years has just 22k views tells you everything you need to know.
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To be fair, there are likely way more Illini basketball fans than football fans in general. But to your point, people use these forums as a venting/coping mechanism. Let it be. It was one of the more frustrating losses I've seen in awhile.
 
#473      
The Sprouting Divot
lstewart53x3 said:
The fact that this thread has 29k views, but the postgame thread for our win against Northwestern in football to go 9-3 and have our best season 15 years has just 22k views tells you everything you need to know.
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I'm not making a snide critique about the hyperbolic overbreadth of "everything you need to know," but exactly what point are you trying to make here?

That there's more to say about a bad loss than a good win? That we are more disappointed by failing to meet expectations in some contexts than we are equivalently pleased to exceed them in other contexts? That we are more of a basketball school?

Again, it's entirely possible that I'm missing your point, but this post comes across to me like cheap, low-effort, superficial, vague, and quite possibly misplaced criticism of our fanbase.
 
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