Ohio State 72, Illinois 60 Postgame

Rudd21 said:

Yep. The defense in 18-19 was terrible. It was coached terrible. It was ball pressure 45 feet from the basket with no rim protection, which meant either we got turnovers or gave up layups and fouled a ton. It was a system that was destined to fail at the high D1 level. Guys handle the ball too good at that level to pressure like that. I read a story that it took an analyst coming to Underwood and saying that it was the wrong way to play. But obviously having a rim protector in Kofi helped out a ton with that.

Click to expand...

Those…on the line, up the line Frank Martin-esque concepts HAVE worked
at the D-1 level. (Though, overall more trapping oriented then denial oriented) the same can be said of Huggins Press Virginia teams. But obviously the returns are not immediate and it takes time to develop and implement. Like anything else, you need buy-in and the right personnel. Some serious depth would be nice too.
It’s not for the faint of heart. It has obvious pros and cons but it can work with the right personnel. To Brad’s credit, he pulled back and changed course. But it CAN work under the right circumstances.

And, he wasn’t a fool for trying it. People like to dump all over anybody that does or tries to do anything innovative or interesting. Anything that gets conventional-minded basketball pundits in a tizzy…usually is on the right track. (ex, The Amoeba Defense, The System…etc.) JMO.



Do you have a link? I’d like to know who this mystery analyst is.

lstewart53x3 said:

This thread

Click to expand...

It seems like you always say that. Lol. This time you’re DEFINITELY right.

BashCtIllini said:

The team stats comparison between 18-19 and 19-20 are remarkably similar:

18-19 19-20
ppg 72.7 72.2
rbg 33.0 39.5
apg 13.5 13.3
topg 13.2 12.1
FG% 43.1 44.3
FT% 70.2 72.8
3pt% 34.5 30.9

The difference is we gave up 75.2 ppg in 18-19 and 65.3 ppg in 19-20. Kofi had a big impact on that improved defense, and was the reason for the increase in rebounding, but the difference between the 18-19 season and the 19-20 season was defense. If I remember correctly we changed the defensive system between those 2 years as well.

Click to expand...

We went from being the fastest team in the B1G in ‘19 to the third slowest in ‘20, so using raw counting stats is meaningless. Here are the numbers adjusted for tempo and SOS:

2019: offensive efficiency #83, defensive efficiency #108

2020: offensive efficiency #38, defensive efficiency #35

They were not even remotely the same team on offense those two seasons. I honestly don’t know why you guys are so interested in watching three yards and a cloud of dust basketball, but I look forward to this fall when you’ll be in the football game threads clapping and barking your approval like trained seals every time we kick a 19-yard field goal.

Rudd21 said:

Yep. The defense in 18-19 was terrible. It was coached terrible. It was ball pressure 45 feet from the basket with no rim protection, which meant either we got turnovers or gave up layups and fouled a ton. It was a system that was destined to fail at the high D1 level. Guys handle the ball too good at that level to pressure like that. I read a story that it took an analyst coming to Underwood and saying that it was the wrong way to play. But obviously having a rim protector in Kofi helped out a ton with that.

Click to expand...

The great thing about hobbies is that if you discover that you suck at one, you can simply choose another. Can I suggest you try this one instead?

Rudd21 said:

Kofi was a unicorn. Just by his sheer size and athleticism.

Jacob Grandison was a role player/spacer on the court. I’m not talking about him. Neither Damonte Williams who was another role player.

Ayo, Shannon, Mayer, Frazier, Curbelo, Miller, Clark, Epps. All those guys could get their own shot. Perhaps not Clark but he was at least expected too. Most high major D1 teams have guys like that. That’s why I say they are a dime a dozen. The difference maker was Kofi surrounded by those guys.

2018-19 we finished #84 in Kenpom.
2019-20 we finished #30 in Kenpom.
2020-21 we finished #4 in Kenpom.

That’s Kofi. You take most of the exact same guys in 18-19 that stunk, put Kofi in the middle, and suddenly you go 84 to 30. That’s why I said Underwood coached very poorly in 18-19. Either Underwood stunk that year, or Kofi is a generational talent that changed things, or both. It has to be one or the other or both.

Click to expand...

What are you even arguing at this point?

As I understand it, the crux of your argument is essentially:

Kofi was good.
Kofi was so good in fact; he changed the fortune of the team.
Brad is bad and rode Kofi’s coattails.
Versatile wings and guards might as well grow on trees in D1 basketball.

1.) Kofi WAS good…shocker!
2.) Kofi DID overwhelmingly change the fortunes of the team…He was the best at what he did in D1 basketball…scoring from 7 to 3 foot in with brute force. Again…not exactly a trade secret.
3.) Brad is bad and rode Kofi’s coattails..
I’m not sure how the dominance of Kofi equates to Brad being inept or bad. Brad and his staff recruited him and developed him; both things that fall under a successful HC coach’s job description. A coach is expected to do that. Is he not?…bring in talent to win consistently?
I dunno if you just dislike Underwood or what? But you seem to be saying anytime that a coach has a great player(s) significantly driving the success of the team…he is just a coach that is going along for the ride. Well I would refute that most definitely…whether it is Huggins with Beasley or Steve Fisher with Glenn Rice back in the day…it takes great talent and coaching…assembling, developing, scheming, and re-scheming and re-scheming…

4.) Ayo, Shannon, Mayer, Frazier, Curbelo, Miller, Clark, Epp
I’m sorry but these dudes are not a (dime a dozen) interchangeable Even by your criteria of ALL of them supposedly being able to go get their own shot…there’s so many nuances to their respective skill sets and differences in their games that it is laughable you would even try to generalize it like that. Some of them are way more effective than others at certain things.

Do they all have the same arsenal/vocabulary of shots?
Do they all shoot floaters? fadeaways?
leaners? Are they all effective at playing through contact? Can they all go to either side with equal effectiveness?

A dime a dozen.. Come on.

It’s strange to me getting their own shot is your only criteria. You must not look at assists or anything else in the box score; I guess.