OTL Report on Michigan State

#126      
I know people are going to rip me and call me a homer, but I see a lot of misconceptions posted

I actually agree. The ESPN article on Izzo/Dantonio was badly slanted, playing off the horrific lack of control around the Nassar abuse. There's a lot yet to be done about that cluster!@#$, and the victims are entitled to answers and accountability for malfeasance, cover-ups, or gross negligence.

That said, I'm not a fan of guilt by association. As far as Izzo goes, if an incident was reported to police, and I think these were, the investigation is out of Izzo's hands, as it should be. Once it's in the justice system, I don't think you should fault a coach for the work police and prosecutors do (or don't do). If there's something to the OTL allegations of administrator cover-ups, then I hope that comes out, but the article is mostly allegations based on their own reporting. One thing from the article that did concern me, was the campus police reports. Not sure if those are handled differently for cases of violence, or why, but if so, that seems odd.
 
#127      

mhuml32

Cincinnati, OH
Story in the Detroit News on the effect on donations to MSU after the Nassar story broke. Synopsis: If MSU doesn't do anything stupid, the effect--donations are off 25 percent--will be less than two years, and then giving will be back to normal. Jason Vines, quoted in the article, is a personal friend, even if a MSU alum.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/02/12/nassar-michigan-state-university-donations/110331886/


Maybe I missed the link when glancing through the article, but is there a cited source for the data on MSU donations being down 25%?
 
#128      

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
3. The football allegations are more absurd. They brought up an alleged gang rape where not even the parents knew about it until 7 years later they found her diary after she committed suicide. The players were gone from MSU at that point. That's not on MSU or Dantonio. Everything else detailed ranged from a shouting match between a couple to some alleged rapes where the victims did not even press charges.

So that means it didn't happen? :hand:
 
#133      
I know people are going to rip me and call me a homer, but I see a lot of misconceptions posted around regarding the football and basketball programs, and if you really look at the facts of the cases and how certain cases have been handled in the past.

1.Payne/Appling. This case was well publicized back when it happened. It actually went to the county prosecution office and the district attorney declared no crime. I have posted snips from the article quoting this. In addition, they released the police report where Payne is questioned, and ESPN totally took what he said that they released in the news piece out of context.

In addition, people say they were covering for MSU. The district attorney was a U of M grad who had prosecuted MSU athletes in the past. Also, this incident happened before they ever played a game at MSU. To conclude, this same woman who wrote this latest news piece also was the same one who wrote an article saying MSU does not give preferential treatment to athletes with sex assault cases

2. Regarding Travis Walton, there have been conflicting accounts by witnesses on the first assault. One other thing that is misconstrued is Travis Walton was not a MSU employee. He was a volunteer under Izzo, which ESPN then painted that they were keeping records from them. No, he wasn't an employee of the university.

Given that the two players were deemed innocent, not sure why Izzo would suspend them. That would actually be saying I don't believe you anyway.


3. The football allegations are more absurd. They brought up an alleged gang rape where not even the parents knew about it until 7 years later they found her diary after she committed suicide. The players were gone from MSU at that point. That's not on MSU or Dantonio. Everything else detailed ranged from a shouting match between a couple to some alleged rapes where the victims did not even press charges.

4. Dantonio just last year kicked four of arguably most talented players at huge positions of need coming off a 3-9 season. I mean come on, if you are going to keep things under wraps, coming off a disastrous year with Michigan, OSU, and PSU all surging all the while you had a lot of additional attrition for other reasons.

5. The claims are all second hand accounts from a sexual assault counselor of 8 years who states she has no idea what they knew nor had even spoken a word to the coaches. Also, why was she not going to the police?

6. To piggy back off number 5, this same woman in 2015 spoke highly of msu sex assault program and accepted an award for it. If that doesn't destroy her credibility, what would? I attached that too.


Demon be gone! Do you not see the significance of a young woman taking her own life because she was gang raped?


3. The football allegations are more absurd. They brought up an alleged gang rape where not even the parents knew about it until 7 years later they found her diary after she committed suicide. The players were gone from MSU at that point. That's not on MSU or Dantonio. Everything else detailed ranged from a shouting match between a couple to some alleged rapes where the victims did not even press charges.
 
#134      

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
What a ridiculous strawman. :hand:

If his point is that no one knew about it, then how was Dantonio supposed to know?

No, the point is that victims of sexual assault may not report the crime out of shame and carry it with them while no one else has any idea why they're depressed, afraid of relationships, etc. It's far, far too common.
 
#135      
No, the point is that victims of sexual assault may not report the crime out of shame and carry it with them while no one else has any idea why they're depressed, afraid of relationships, etc. It's far, far too common.

Absolutely agree. Takes courage to deal with fear, shame, or social stigma.
 
#142      
This is starting to feel reminiscent of Penn St.
And by that I simply mean that I find myself asking "when will the adults show up?"
 
#144      

Deleted member 631370

D
Guest
OK this story is unbearably horrible and MSU has some major problems on its hands.

As a complete aside, you have the best handle on this board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, this is definitely a massive turd that plopped right into a punch bowl that had calmed a bit since the January-February storm.

MSU better show that they're committed to taking decisive action if indeed they find any wrongdoing. Because the optics here are really, really bad.
 
#145      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
Izzo needs to respond to these allegations asap....after the fallout from the Nassar embarrassment to this the time has come for ALL the facts regarding MSU athletics to be public knowledge...It shouldn't matter if you are a BB player, therapist or regular student...If you violate another person you should be accountable for it and if there has been a coverup or poor counseling advice given the university is still responsible for the actions of student athletes at their school....

the more I hear about Izzo and MSU the more I dispise him and the school...
 
#146      

South Farms

near Ogden & Rt 83
Tom Izzo = Joe Paterno. :(

I don't mean this as a hijack, but did anyone else catch the HBO movie with Pacino playing JoePa?

I came into it late, so I watched the middle 1/2 of it and fell asleep at 11:30 before it was over . Watching them beat us for his 409th , when we hit the upright brought back all kinds of bad memories of that game.

oh, and I cant see how Izzo can survive this. Not in todays mindset . Maybe he would have survived this 5 years ago, but not today. He had to have known this special treatment was going on
 
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#147      
What's really damning about that report is in this case it doesn't even matter if the female's allegations about the assault at the hands of the basketball players are true or not (which is usually the argument you often get from the team in question's fans when these stories gain traction). The school administration's response regardless of the accusation was "don't make it a big issue, they're basketball players". Simply damning.

If anyone really thinks the head basketball coach wasn't contacted the second the administration caught wind of the meeting with the counselor, they REALLY underestimate just how much power these coaches have. Has some shades of the Paterno situation to me where the coach will try to play dumb as if he doesn't know what every single person involved in his program had for breakfast that day.

Shameful.
 
#149      
Playing devils advocate here, but isn't this type of situation exactly what a coach would want as far as layers of deniability? Much like we discuss how maybe Calipari, Coach K, Self and others may not actually cheat because they have others do it for them, many layers removed. Yes they are ultimately responsible, and they look the other way, but they are not offering the bags of alleged cash.

Obviously I am not condoning in any manner, as it is stomach turning. However, I can see where Izzo is shielded from this knowledge.

Oh for sure, of course this is what the coaches want. Izzo 100% percent knew that his players were accused of this and more likely than not also knew the girl would get pressured to drop it. Sadly a lot of these winning coaches have WAY too much power in their little college town fiefdoms.

Good parallel with the plausible deniability they have with paying recruits as well.
 
#150      
Obviously I am not condoning in any manner, as it is stomach turning. However, I can see where Izzo is shielded from this knowledge.

Not knowing the intimate details of a recruitment is more plausible of deniability than not know disciplinary information about you on-campus players. There's no way around that knowledge for a head coach.