Penn State 90, Illinois 89 Postgame
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OrangeBlue98
- Des Moines, IA
I don’t disagree at all with this game in a vacuum. But the defensive problems are a big recurring problem. Even in wins like against Nebraska, the defense has just not been good enough.
Defense is the one constant you can always bring. Even if you’re shooting poorly, good defense can keep you in games. The defense just is not good enough. Illinois is now 19-7, and poor defense has cost them at least four wins (NW, PSU, MSU, Tennessee).
I can accept losing games when you don’t shoot well. Those things happen. But to consistently lose games because you are poor defensively is frustrating. Defense is just effort, coaching, and communication-especially when the team has good athleticism.
blackdog
- Champaign
A high possession game doesn't account for the fact that PSU shot 54% from the field and 44% from 3 while only turning the ball over 6 times. This from a team that on the season is averaging 44% from the field and 33% from 3 with 11 turnovers a game. That's bad defense.
It can't be just that we play a high tempo game when every single team shoots above their season averages against us. It used to be we would be expecting to lower a teams shooting averages after a game.
And that is what the team seems to have assumed as well, and that is the problem.
I'll stand up a little for Gritty here. I think when everyone was losing their minds about our defense when PSU started 6 of 6 from the field, I actually didn't think our defense was all that bad outside of one possession. But after those first 5-8 minutes, our defense basically was non-existent. A big part of that issue from what I saw was Ty being in foul trouble. Our guards outside of TSJ and Ty struggle guarding anyone, so losing him for long periods is a major strain on our defense.
That said, the biggest issues are that Luke is too slow to defend anyone in the B10, Marcus is a defensive liability but his offense more than makes up for it, and Justin has terrible off-ball awareness and a slow 1st step. It also doesn't help that Quincy has taken a major step back and is no longer the aggressive or imposing force he was earlier in the season, and Coleman is completely overburdened and getting no support. Not only is everyone except for TSJ and Ty giving up easy paths to the basket every possession, they also aren't helping Coleman down low with quick doubles. Overall, the defense is indeed a mess and we're paper thin defensively at all positions.
IlliniTilDeath
- Chicago, IL
Not helping Coleman? Coleman put in zero effort last night.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
That's about as kind and respectful of terminology as I can think of for what folks are doing with this 29 year old minor staff member.
redwingillini11
White and Sixth
- North Aurora
Are you telling me that was not just a terrible horrible dream I had?
We have it mastered
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
My overall issue with us on defense is that in pursuit of not fouling (which we do very very well most nights, we avoid cheapies and regularly have positive free throw margins) we just end up kinda hands-off and soft. We've swung the pendulum too far away from physicality.
For me, in any sport at any level THE cardinal sin is being easy to play against, letting the other team play the way they like playing, in their rhythm. I see some of that in this team especially on the defensive end and that's really worrying.
(You could definitely argue that all of this flows from not having real guards, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.)
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I thought our defense was pretty good at the beginning of the year, swarming. Now not so much. To me this is a complaint that is pretty constant against Underwood. We don't really adjust. Sounds like in the past, it was Gentry who made the adjustment at Ok State which ultimately got Underwood this job, and Gentry again that changed our defensive philosophy in the early Underwood years where our defense was consistently laughable.
To me this season is pretty clear, we almost beat Purdue because Domask just backed down their smaller players and physically dominated. Very quickly, other coaches adjusted and largely took that away. Teams have quickly adjusted to our switching defense and exploited it. Teams know some of our guys over pursue and a simple shot fake will get you an open look. Other Big Ten coaches are very good. They will look at our tape and say here's how we can win.
Now we have a lot of talent, and a sure fire All American in Shannon, so we can win just on talent advantage alone. But people keep talking about these late game collapses. I don't think it is that difficult to figure out. We don't have a PG. As the game gets more desperate, the opponents apply more full court pressure. When that happens, we really struggle.
What I would be afraid of come March is a 13 or 12 seed saying, we're just going to go balls to the wall and press these guys for 40 minutes. If they beat us so be it, but I think this is our best chance to pull the upset. And quite frankly it is. I think the only reason we don't see more press is because most major teams just don't practice it. They don't want their guys so tired from defense they can't play offense. But smaller schools, have historically been more likely to press.
To me this season is pretty clear, we almost beat Purdue because Domask just backed down their smaller players and physically dominated. Very quickly, other coaches adjusted and largely took that away. Teams have quickly adjusted to our switching defense and exploited it. Teams know some of our guys over pursue and a simple shot fake will get you an open look. Other Big Ten coaches are very good. They will look at our tape and say here's how we can win.
Now we have a lot of talent, and a sure fire All American in Shannon, so we can win just on talent advantage alone. But people keep talking about these late game collapses. I don't think it is that difficult to figure out. We don't have a PG. As the game gets more desperate, the opponents apply more full court pressure. When that happens, we really struggle.
What I would be afraid of come March is a 13 or 12 seed saying, we're just going to go balls to the wall and press these guys for 40 minutes. If they beat us so be it, but I think this is our best chance to pull the upset. And quite frankly it is. I think the only reason we don't see more press is because most major teams just don't practice it. They don't want their guys so tired from defense they can't play offense. But smaller schools, have historically been more likely to press.
Obviously, this game sucked. My poor dog accidentally wore a water bottle over it from frustration, which I blame on CH lol. But, it's over with. Nothing we can change and we will still get to watch a team in March. CH has been great this year and he will bounce back for us. I'd like to see less looking at refs and more hustling back on D, and I believe that will be corrected. Yes, I'm taking the positive approach here lol.
However, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about Iowa. I'm in the QC with many Iowa fans and I cannot listen to this... We need to stop them from getting in the dance. After last night, myself and my pup need this lol. That's all, sorry for the rant!
However, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about Iowa. I'm in the QC with many Iowa fans and I cannot listen to this... We need to stop them from getting in the dance. After last night, myself and my pup need this lol. That's all, sorry for the rant!
I can tell you one thing, even though our defense sucked last night and has been bad for a while, I agree with the fact that everything that could’ve gone wrong in the last minute or so did go wrong last night. There was like a 1 percent chance that all those things happen and it unfortunately happened. If just one of those things went right, we would’ve won. That’s not going to happen very frequently.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
To be clear, the legendary OSU adjustment was to just sit back on defense, play run and gun with Jawun Evans and outscore everybody. #1 offense #155 defense per Kenpom that season.
And the trap-happy insanely aggressive D that was the calling card of BU's Stephen F. Austin teams and most of his first two seasons here was mothballed when Kofi arrived and hasn't been seen since. Good riddance, doesn't work at this level, and BU has adapted wonderfully.
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
I'm sitting here this morning looking at my large CHIEF flag hanging on the wall in my living room as I try to think what to post after last night's numbing loss...........I want to give my opinion about what went wrong but my mind is still reeling after the meltdown with being up 7 , with the ball possession and only 40 seconds left in the game..........This is where my stomach starts churning and my head starts moving left , then right in a dizzying display of nauseous motion........No sleep last night , no matter how or what I tried.........
As a life long Illini fan of over 65 years I know I'm too invested in every game that the Illini programs play and a loss like last night just throws my equilibrium off so much that I feel lethargic and listless and don't want to even move that much.........It's my burden and I try to handle it the best I can , but sometimes it just consumes me and my emotions........
This won't be the last game that affects me this way , but , damn , it's hard to even think about Saturday right now for me......
It really really really really really is.............JMHO...........................
As a life long Illini fan of over 65 years I know I'm too invested in every game that the Illini programs play and a loss like last night just throws my equilibrium off so much that I feel lethargic and listless and don't want to even move that much.........It's my burden and I try to handle it the best I can , but sometimes it just consumes me and my emotions........
This won't be the last game that affects me this way , but , damn , it's hard to even think about Saturday right now for me......
It really really really really really is.............JMHO...........................
Ty is one of our better defenders but even he struggles keeping quicker players in front of him and ends up getting in foul trouble. TSJ is the only one that can consistently handle the quicker players mainly because if they do get by him he can make up for it with his length and shot blocking ability.
Literally felt like punching the TV, worst loss in recent memory, with so much on the line, those clowns lose to a team that was riding a three game losing streak and was without one of their best players. Totally unacceptable and disappointing, especially given the seniority of the team.
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I still would rather have underwood and all his gaffes than be indiana right now... 4 head coaches going on five and irrelevant.
I feel bad for Coleman in how the game ended for him. Missing two possible game clinching free throws and fouling on the 3 point attempt at the end. He should have been smarter than that to put himself in that kind of position to get that foul. However I will say I have seen a lot more contact at the end of a game and no call. I don't think anyone else has mentioned this but it was actually Luke's man who shot that three on Hawkins foul. Hawkins and Domask were both engaged with their men on a ball screening action when Luke's man came over the top of them with him trailing (as usual). Yes, would have been nice to have Ty in at that time.
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GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
Sorry, but no. He SHOULD be a minor staff member, but if he's as in charge of orchestrating the abomination of a defensive scheme we've been playing as has been hinted at, then he (and Brad) deserve as much vitriol as they are receiving. Maybe not enough, honestly.
Well, I've slept on it and I'm madder now than I was last night. The concerns and questions with this regime continue, even with All-Americans almost every year, the same red flags keep popping up.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I really don't want to get into it.
All I will say is that over the decades this has come up in a lot of different contexts in both sports and I never have and never will waver (because it's the truth) from the firm framework that all responsibility in a college sports program lies directly with the head coach, and trying to subdivide beyond that is a fool's errand. I have problems with this beyond that, but let's just leave it there.
Correct. But this is a reoccurring theme. We’ve had immense roster turnover, Assistant Coaching turnover, and one thing has remained the same. It almost seems like the players aren’t being put into positions to be successful and be able to execute efficiently.
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