Penn State 90, Illinois 89 Postgame

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#801      

stlrunner

stlrunner
jakeyjakey
St Louis, MO
stlrunner
aaeismacgychel said:
Ty's stats on the night-
1.66ppp on 17% possession contribution (126ppg pace on possessions he contributed on)- 1st on team
100% shooting percentage- 1st on team
15.0pts per 40- 4th on team
17.5rebs per 40- 1st on team
12.5 off rebs per 40- 1st on team
7.5 ast per 40- 1st on team
3:1 a/to ratio- 2nd on team
2.5 stl per 40- 1st on team
+2.7pts +/- impact- 3rd on team
+0.9pts defensive impact- 2nd on team

Yeah, makes sense we wouldn't want Ty out there in crunch time. I mean, he only led the team in offensive efficiency, shooting, rebounding, assists, and steals per 40 last night, gave us positive plus minus, and was probably our best defensive player last night. Should've led in blocks, or changed his name to Magic Johnson to get in the game during crunch time I guess. I just don't get it.

People say we have a PG problem, but if that's a problem, our late game personnel issues are far far greater. If Brad can't recognize we go in the tank late in games when Ty isn't on the floor and close them out when Ty is, he's either blind or fool.
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This is the most concerning thing to me...and I appreciate the actual stats that back up what we all just know from watching the games. This team is largely better with Ty Rodgers in the game, and its insanely concerning that Brad continues to have him on the bench at the end of tight games. Miraculously, he went against this trend and played Ty to close out the Maryland game, and...wouldn't you know it, we were composed and closed that game out in crunch time. So why on earth wasn't Ty on the floor at the end of the PSU game? I simply cannot wrap my head around it. I get that he was limited in the 2nd half because of foul trouble, but under 2 minutes, you have to ride it out until he picks up that 5th. Goode being in rather than Ty makes ZERO sense...Ty has been the more reliable FT shooter than Goode for the past 2 months. It's all hypothetical, but Ty doesn't burn any timeouts on the inbounds, and makes better inbounds pass that avoid the dumb turnovers.

As has been pointed out...if the team on the floor avoids just a single one of those mistakes in the last minute, we win this game...and I simply can't shake the feeling that if Ty was in, at least one of them wouldn't have occurred, if not more than one. But we'll never know...because Brad continues to feel Luke Goode and Justin Harmon are the better option for reasons he has yet to explain. This is why it is so frustrating to see this happen over and over and over again...because Brad has no explanation, and his answers to the questions about this are always non-answers. I just want to know what the logic is as to why he keeps throwing that same end game rotation out there when it keeps floundering in late game scenarios. There has to be some reason...but nobody can see it.
 
#802      

BDMAN

B
BDMAN
doowink said:
We have it mastered
Lachlan Murdoch Reaction GIF by Murdoch Mysteries
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O' le.......
 
#803      

The Sprouting Divot

The Sprouting Divot
Invisible and Bulletproof
Miracle Mile
The Sprouting Divot
nyc_illini said:
Maybe we can chalk up this game as a black swan event? Rather it happens now than in March.
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Just like our highly coincidental trend of allowing some rando to have a career night against us, we're also developing another highly coincidental trend of losing by improbable black swans. Hell, the University of Illinois Fighting Black Swans makes more sense than the Kingfisher at this point.

And I hate to break it to you, but the only way this doesn't also happen in March is if it somehow improbably happens in April, or if we win the national championship. But my money is on our last loss of the season looking a lot like most of our other losses this season.
 
#805      

Florida_Illini

F
Florida_Illini
Obviously the last few minutes were frustrating. What I couldn't believe was Justin Harmon lost his man for backdoor layups at least 5 times during the game. I don't get it, any of the freshman could have done better than that. It really hurt when Ty got in foul trouble because we looked horrible on perimeter defense when he was out.
 
#806      

illiniguy24

illiniguy24
illiniguy24
Illini in Italy said:
Fortunately I had to miss last night's game to attend my grandson's Jr. High basketball game, followed by my granddaughter's 6th grade basketball game. I did peek at the score in between games and saw the Beloved up by 7 (?) at the half. I didn't check again until I got home around 9 last night, only to see that we lost by one. I checked the box score and play by play on the ESPN, and decided that I didn't need to watch the turd that we laid in the last few minutes.

However, I the think that turd is dwarfed by the 29 pages of steaming, stinking fecal matter in this thread. Maybe unprecedented.

Like all, I'm, sad, hurt, depressed, whatever . . . But the amount of "hot" takes and downright idiotic comments here rivals the game threads . . . nay, EXCEEDS the game threads by a factor of oh, say, a million. According to various posters here, Brad should be fired; Luke, Marcus, Hawkins, Ty, Q, Dain, DGL, Moretti, Harmon all should be thrown out . . . I'm sure I missed some other stupid take . . .

Purdue lost to Ohio State (and Nebraska and Northwestern) . . . UCONN lost to Creighton . . . we lost. Fix the problems and on to the next game.

:hailtotheorange:
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You didn’t watch the game and it shows buddy. Read this article. This is not the reaction of just one game

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1760657315433185571
 
#807      

Yukon

Yukon
Yukon
I think we need an inbounds play coordinator. Both D and O. Penn State has some real creative inbounds plays, especially under the bucket and we fell for it. We have, post the guy on your hip and lob over the top. Pretty much the extent of our creativity. But wait, it gets worse. Lets inbound the ball into the corner after made baskets and turn the ball over!

You have to find ways to get the ball in your best FT shooters hands so he can be fouled.

AND Hawkins! Really? Lets miss 2 FT and then make up for it by fouling the 3 point shooter. Worst 10 seconds of basketball I can remember seeing.
 
#808      

BoiseBaller

B
BoiseBaller
You can lay the defensive woes at the feet of the AC or Brad, or both. But I'd like to know who is in charge of subbing. Because some of the personnel decisions being made are worse than the defense. They set themselves up to fail by having lineup combinations that are truly mind boggling. And also end of game lineups are the same.
 
#809      

Second place is 1st loser

S
Second place is 1st loser
BalloonsTheElephant said:
This overreacting to a freak loss is a bit staggering. Never should have lost this game, but I assumed of we scored 90, we would win by 20.
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The problem is, this isn't a freak loss. It's the second time that a total meltdown occurred that resulted in a loss. The Nebraska meltdown was on par with this, but thankfully we got it into overtime.

This is an issue.
 
#810      

MajorNathanMaxwellJanice

M
MajorNathanMaxwellJanice
jacekpardol said:
This maybe controversial but I’m kinda sick of Coleman. Bad body language, non stop complaining, no help defense on the interior.

If anyone did 1/4 of what Coleman did they would be benched the entire game.
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Not controversial at all! The unforced errors, the boneheaded plays, are maddening. And they just seem to keep happening. it’s not just missed shots or “aggressive mistakes”; it’s goofy, head scratching, repeated “what was he thinking, why did he do that” moments.
 
#811      

Second place is 1st loser

S
Second place is 1st loser
rbse said:
Ranked teams losing on the road this year is staggering really, and again the officials inconsistency is getting more consistent. Playing in that small gym was a brilliant strategy for Penn.
Defense is broken, work on it, then work on it some more, time is of the essence
.
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It's not losing. It's how we lost. Up 7, with the ball, 40 seconds left....that should be a win 999 out of 1,000 times at this level. The bigger issue is that it's the third time we've melted down this year. The Nebraska one was on par with this. MSU was a meltdown, but not to epic proportions like the other two.

If we went out there and just got outplayed on a freak nights, fine. That's not this situation. We don't have a PG. We have the wrong guys handling the ball late in games, thus turnovers, getting out of sorts, missing free throws.... basically not being able to handle end of game pressure.

We have a major issue that's being exposed.
 
#812      

bluemountain

B
bluemountain
GrayGhost77 said:
Sorry, but no. He SHOULD be a minor staff member, but if he's as in charge of orchestrating the abomination of a defensive scheme we've been playing as has been hinted at, then he (and Brad) deserve as much vitriol as they are receiving. Maybe not enough, honestly.
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This kid is probably making what, $50k a year? He has no business being in charge of our defense; he should be charting shots and making sure BU knows how many TO's are left. This is squarely on Underwoods shoulders
 
#813      

Illiniskier

I
Illiniskier
pruman91 said:
I'm sitting here this morning looking at my large CHIEF flag hanging on the wall in my living room as I try to think what to post after last night's numbing loss...........I want to give my opinion about what went wrong but my mind is still reeling after the meltdown with being up 7 , with the ball possession and only 40 seconds left in the game..........This is where my stomach starts churning and my head starts moving left , then right in a dizzying display of nauseous motion........No sleep last night , no matter how or what I tried.........

As a life long Illini fan of over 65 years I know I'm too invested in every game that the Illini programs play and a loss like last night just throws my equilibrium off so much that I feel lethargic and listless and don't want to even move that much.........It's my burden and I try to handle it the best I can , but sometimes it just consumes me and my emotions........

This won't be the last game that affects me this way , but , damn , it's hard to even think about Saturday right now for me......

It really really really really really is.............JMHO...........................
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I definitely feel the pain and anguish from the loss last night. However, nearly every team playing college basketball has a game or two every season that they should have won and let slip away. If we finish strong and make a deep run in the NCAA tournament, we will quickly forget about last night. Fortunately, this was just a regular season game. Think about how the Arizona fans must have felt after our amazing come back '05. Like us, the Arizona fans will never forget that loss but in a completely different manner compared to us. With that said, life moves on. I wish everyone a great day today!
 
#814      

aaeismacgychel

A
aaeismacgychel
Florida_Illini said:
Obviously the last few minutes were frustrating. What I couldn't believe was Justin Harmon lost his man for backdoor layups at least 5 times during the game. I don't get it, any of the freshman could have done better than that. It really hurt when Ty got in foul trouble because we looked horrible on perimeter defense when he was out.
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So I pointed this out on the Spain trip and then during the exhibitions and early season games. Justin for whatever reason loses track of his man offball very frequently. During this time period, both the eyes and advanced stats had him as our worst defender who got regular minutes. Then there was about a 2 week stretch of play where he played much better defensively and was more aggressive in how he went after his guy both on and off the ball. I thought that maybe it was just a getting up to speed issue getting used to a new team and was now playing on instinct instead of worrying where he needed to be in the system. But after that stretch, he has reverted back to his early season form. His defense has been abysmal over the past month- playing in constant recovery defense mode because he is giving the man he is supposed to be covering way too much time and space offball. He could sometimes get away with it earlier in the season due to his quickness in pursuit and athleticism to block, but midmajor athletes are not B10 athletes and Justin is getting thoroughly destroyed offball.

I'm half-joking here, but Brad needs to get an elastic band and wrap it around Justin's waist and the waist of Sencire with about 4-5ft of slack in between and tell Justin to defend Sencire from getting the ball. After 10 minutes of that if Justin hasn't died, I think he'll get an understanding of what he needs to do.
 
#816      

Second place is 1st loser

S
Second place is 1st loser
KOTC2 said:
Literally felt like punching the TV, worst loss in recent memory, with so much on the line, those clowns lose to a team that was riding a three game losing streak and was without one of their best players. Totally unacceptable and disappointing, especially given the seniority of the team.
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We understand the frustration. We're all frustrated. Let's ease up on the personal attacks on the kids. Perspective.
 
#817      

gary?

G
gary?
ChiefGritty said:
I really don't want to get into it.

All I will say is that over the decades this has come up in a lot of different contexts in both sports and I never have and never will waver (because it's the truth) from the firm framework that all responsibility in a college sports program lies directly with the head coach, and trying to subdivide beyond that is a fool's errand. I have problems with this beyond that, but let's just leave it there.
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I think that's fair. I think everyone could/should agree that if the defense is really Hamer's "fault", then it's ultimately Underwood's fault for (a) entrusting him with the defense and (b) doing nothing to change it. I am an outsider, but I have great difficulty in believing (a).
 
#818      

FloridaMan

F
FloridaMan
aaeismacgychel said:
I'll stand up a little for Gritty here. I think when everyone was losing their minds about our defense when PSU started 6 of 6 from the field, I actually didn't think our defense was all that bad outside of one possession. But after those first 5-8 minutes, our defense basically was non-existent. A big part of that issue from what I saw was Ty being in foul trouble. Our guards outside of TSJ and Ty struggle guarding anyone, so losing him for long periods is a major strain on our defense.

That said, the biggest issues are that Luke is too slow to defend anyone in the B10, Marcus is a defensive liability but his offense more than makes up for it, and Justin has terrible off-ball awareness and a slow 1st step. It also doesn't help that Quincy has taken a major step back and is no longer the aggressive or imposing force he was earlier in the season, and Coleman is completely overburdened and getting no support. Not only is everyone except for TSJ and Ty giving up easy paths to the basket every possession, they also aren't helping Coleman down low with quick doubles. Overall, the defense is indeed a mess and we're paper thin defensively at all positions.
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Don't disagree entirely. However, we have a well established pattern of allowing teams of any talent level to feel very comfortable in getting open passing lanes and looks on shots at the basket anywhere they want them early in games. That includes positions 1-5 - to a much lesser degree at whatever position TSJ is guarding. When you allow a DIV I team to do that early, they gain confidence that snowballs from that point forward.

We have shown stretches of the ability to play very good D (not last night, but throughout the season. But if we are not going to start coming out well prepared, both physically and mentally, to play ALL games before the tipoff then nothing is going to change and we will have an early exit next month.
 
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#820      

gary?

G
gary?
illiniguy24 said:
You didn’t watch the game and it shows buddy. Read this article. This is not the reaction of just one game

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1760657315433185571
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  • L at Penn State (90-89): 0 FG in the final 2:30. Penn State ended the game on a 20-7 run, erasing a 12-point lead in the final 8:00.
  • W at Maryland (85-80): 0 FG in the final 1:53. Illinois blew a 7-point lead and let Maryland tie the game twice.
  • L at Michigan State (88-80): 1 FG in the final 7:38. Michigan State ended the game on a 24-8 run, turning an 8-point Illinois lead into an 8-point Illinois loss.
  • W vs. Nebraska (87-84 OT): 0 FG in the final 3:29 (of regulation). Timeout heard around the world. Underwood calls a timeout to “set the defense.” Nebraska closes regulation on an 11-1 run to force OT. Marcus Domask made one free throw after Nebraska “fouled” him with under five seconds left.
  • L at Northwestern (96-91 OT): 1 FG in the final 3:29. Domask missed a 10-footer to win the game at the buzzer. Could not stop anyone in OT.
  • W vs.Michigan State (71-68): 1 FG for the final 5:29. No Terrence Shannon, Jr. for this game. Illinois gutted out a win.
  • Loss at Purdue (83-78): 0 FG in the final 3:06. Fake rally comes up short.
Total damage: 27:44 of game action - four total field goals made.

Oh my God.
 
#821      

Troop44

T
Troop44
You could tell Coleman was going to miss before he even took them. I said it to my wife. Look at his body language towards the ref. He was pissed they werent giving him the ball when he wanted it and started crying about it. Totally changed his concentration. He is still very mentally weak in my opinion
 
#822      

jacekpardol

jacekpardol
jacekpardol
I think he just doesn’t care at times. I don’t know how else to wrap my head around it.
 
#824      

Poe's Law

P
Poe's Law
ChiefGritty said:
I really don't want to get into it.

All I will say is that over the decades this has come up in a lot of different contexts in both sports and I never have and never will waver (because it's the truth) from the firm framework that all responsibility in a college sports program lies directly with the head coach, and trying to subdivide beyond that is a fool's errand. I have problems with this beyond that, but let's just leave it there.
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What you said was “I really don’t want to get into it”. What I think you meant is “I want to have the last word”

As to the point that all responsibility relies directly with the head coach, I’m not ready to convert to your belief (not a truth), because it’s an oversimplification and I come here for nuanced discussion (and gifs of course)

Is Hammer getting too much heat here for our “Trash Defense” (trademark pending), most likely. But I also believe that he’s been given responsibility for our defensive game planning and over all scheme and thus has a little responsibility for what we have witnessed.
 
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